Obie73 wrote:Thanks No1Mk3, I appreciate your input. There's much I don't know. For a .357 rifle what would be a more appropriate target grade projectile?
deye243 wrote:Obie73 wrote:Thanks No1Mk3, I appreciate your input. There's much I don't know. For a .357 rifle what would be a more appropriate target grade projectile?
What's the diameter of the smallest and the longest range you are shooting.
Obie73 wrote:Yes, at the range I shoot at you are allowed semi jacketed but not full metal jacket. Most people there seem to shoot jacketed projectiles in their 357 magnum Lever actions that I've seen so far. Some use powder coated lead.
Btw, if anyone has experience with any calibre of Leverevolution ammo (also including hand loads with FTX projectiles) in a rifle I'd be very keen to hear about your experience.
Over The Hill wrote:You dont need ammo any more accurate than you can shoot the rifle. Buy cheaper ammo in larger quantities and practice more. Using premium ammo will not make you a better shot IMHO
Obie73 wrote:Sounds great Billo!! So, did you hand load your own loads with the 140gr FTX projectiles in .357 mag and you got improved accuracy? If so, this is all I need to know. Ah, I think I get what you're saying. You used Leverevolution powder.
Obie73 wrote:Yes, extra practice is a great idea. I am a good shot already, and I also know that some loads definitely have wider groups. My view is that you need both: lots of practice and great performing gear etc. Because if you don't have the latter all the long practice you do is a less efficient use of practice time. So I will keep looking for tighter shooting ammo. I've seen how the .357 magnum can shoot 1.5 -- 2" groups at 100m, on a rest and using a scope, out of a 20" barrel lever action rifle. That's if you have the most accurate shooting loads for that particular rifle. Other groups might be 3.5 -- 4" with different loads. May as well seek out the most accurate loads with the most accurate projectiles. That may, or may not, include the FTX projectiles. If I find out how they shoot in my rifle I will post back here. I shoot with open sights by choice but I still find that more accurate ammo gives noticeably better results.
Billo wrote:Ruger 77 357, two piece bolt light weight barrel
in2anity wrote:Billo wrote:Ruger 77 357, two piece bolt light weight barrel
still a bolt gun. and there's nothing necessarily wrong with a two piece bolt design, so long as it headspaces consistently - look at the omark for example. Light barrel? well yeah shoot ten and see how the group fairs... Don't get me wrong - that's a fine group for 357. But you'd be doing pretty well to find a lever that can consistently do that.
Billo wrote:in2anity wrote:Billo wrote:Ruger 77 357, two piece bolt light weight barrel
still a bolt gun. and there's nothing necessarily wrong with a two piece bolt design, so long as it headspaces consistently - look at the omark for example. Light barrel? well yeah shoot ten and see how the group fairs... Don't get me wrong - that's a fine group for 357. But you'd be doing pretty well to find a lever that can consistently do that.
I had a 1960 Marlin 3030 with a micro groove barrel and it shot stupid small groups like this, sadly I sold it to my brother who later on swapped it for something s**t.
Obviously not the norm In2anity but some can shoot like stink
in2anity wrote:Obie73 wrote:Yes, extra practice is a great idea. I am a good shot already, and I also know that some loads definitely have wider groups. My view is that you need both: lots of practice and great performing gear etc. Because if you don't have the latter all the long practice you do is a less efficient use of practice time. So I will keep looking for tighter shooting ammo. I've seen how the .357 magnum can shoot 1.5 -- 2" groups at 100m, on a rest and using a scope, out of a 20" barrel lever action rifle. That's if you have the most accurate shooting loads for that particular rifle. Other groups might be 3.5 -- 4" with different loads. May as well seek out the most accurate loads with the most accurate projectiles. That may, or may not, include the FTX projectiles. If I find out how they shoot in my rifle I will post back here. I shoot with open sights by choice but I still find that more accurate ammo gives noticeably better results.
Ah ok tis fair. Oh well, do some experiments - if your FTX loads are indeed measurably better then cheaper alternatives, then it's a no brainer that's what you'd take to a comp. After all, accuracy is king, speed is prince. Worthwhile experiment for sure. I rate the 30/30 for CLAS distances - over a larger wind sample. It is significantly easier to use than straightwall out to modest distance.
wrenchman wrote:I have shot the ammo and I didnt find it bad but I didn't feel it was worth the price I also found the brass gave me lots of problems when reloadig
Obie73 wrote:in2anity wrote:Obie73 wrote:Yes, extra practice is a great idea. I am a good shot already, and I also know that some loads definitely have wider groups. My view is that you need both: lots of practice and great performing gear etc. Because if you don't have the latter all the long practice you do is a less efficient use of practice time. So I will keep looking for tighter shooting ammo. I've seen how the .357 magnum can shoot 1.5 -- 2" groups at 100m, on a rest and using a scope, out of a 20" barrel lever action rifle. That's if you have the most accurate shooting loads for that particular rifle. Other groups might be 3.5 -- 4" with different loads. May as well seek out the most accurate loads with the most accurate projectiles. That may, or may not, include the FTX projectiles. If I find out how they shoot in my rifle I will post back here. I shoot with open sights by choice but I still find that more accurate ammo gives noticeably better results.
Ah ok tis fair. Oh well, do some experiments - if your FTX loads are indeed measurably better then cheaper alternatives, then it's a no brainer that's what you'd take to a comp. After all, accuracy is king, speed is prince. Worthwhile experiment for sure. I rate the 30/30 for CLAS distances - over a larger wind sample. It is significantly easier to use than straightwall out to modest distance.
Just read a post on a US forum where the guy says he's done a fair bit of load development with the FTX 140 gr out of a 20" barrel Win lever action model 92, with H110. He says he's not all that impressed with his results in that rifle. He says the XTP 158gr is more accurate for him. So, I'm now thinking I might now try 158gr XTP instead. Regarding the 30-30, yes, it's probably logically the better rifle to use for these comps but ... I dunno .... something about the .357 out of a LA rifle just interests me more. I like the challenge of getting as much out of that round as I possibly can. It's a project.
Obie73 wrote:Regarding the 30-30, yes, it's probably logically the better rifle to use for these comps but ... I dunno .... something about the .357 out of a LA rifle just interests me more. I like the challenge of getting as much out of that round as I possibly can. It's a project.
in2anity wrote:Obie73 wrote:Regarding the 30-30, yes, it's probably logically the better rifle to use for these comps but ... I dunno .... something about the .357 out of a LA rifle just interests me more. I like the challenge of getting as much out of that round as I possibly can. It's a project.
I'm not sure if you are targetting PCLAS or CLAS, and it's an important desitinction to make. If you wanna do CLAS the rams are on the 200m line instead of the 100m line, and they are the Long Range Pistol targets (bigger than the 1/2 size pistol found for PCLAS). A belly shot from the 357 probs won't topple the ram and only "ring it". 44mag is usually considered minimum for CLAS, and I'm not a huge fan of 44mag. 30/30 better.
There's also the issue of spitballing. Lead than "spitballs" onto the target transfers more energy that a frangible high velocity that shatters and basically deflects the energy away.
Probs best to attend some club shoots and see/experience what other blokes are using, before comitting too heavily on buying.
deye243 wrote:Obie73 wrote:in2anity wrote:Obie73 wrote:
I'm not sure what PCLAS and CLAS are. Sounds like it's different to what we do at our range. We just shoot paper targets (which might be animal shaped, with sort of topographic-looking lines within, with different scores if you hit in those areas, or standard bullseye type paper targets, at 100m, 50m, and 25m.
Yes, extra practice is a great idea. I am a good shot already, and I also know that some loads definitely have wider groups. My view is that you need both: lots of practice and great performing gear etc. Because if you don't have the latter all the long practice you do is a less efficient use of practice time. So I will keep looking for tighter shooting ammo. I've seen how the .357 magnum can shoot 1.5 -- 2" groups at 100m, on a rest and using a scope, out of a 20" barrel lever action rifle. That's if you have the most accurate shooting loads for that particular rifle. Other groups might be 3.5 -- 4" with different loads. May as well seek out the most accurate loads with the most accurate projectiles. That may, or may not, include the FTX projectiles. If I find out how they shoot in my rifle I will post back here. I shoot with open sights by choice but I still find that more accurate ammo gives noticeably better results.
Ah ok tis fair. Oh well, do some experiments - if your FTX loads are indeed measurably better then cheaper alternatives, then it's a no brainer that's what you'd take to a comp. After all, accuracy is king, speed is prince. Worthwhile experiment for sure. I rate the 30/30 for CLAS distances - over a larger wind sample. It is significantly easier to use than straightwall out to modest distance.
Just read a post on a US forum where the guy says he's done a fair bit of load development with the FTX 140 gr out of a 20" barrel Win lever action model 92, with H110. He says he's not all that impressed with his results in that rifle. He says the XTP 158gr is more accurate for him. So, I'm now thinking I might now try 158gr XTP instead. Regarding the 30-30, yes, it's probably logically the better rifle to use for these comps but ... I dunno .... something about the .357 out of a LA rifle just interests me more. I like the challenge of getting as much out of that round as I possibly can. It's a project.
It will come down to what the rifle likes .
I new a bloke in my pistol club back in the 90s he had a crappy Rossi 357 lever action and that freak of a thing would shoot 1" groups at 50m with what ever you fed it that was the roughest lever I have ever cycled.
I even offered to buy it and he laughed at me und said no because you don't like Rossi rifles haha he was right but that thing just shot so good for what it was .
Obie73 wrote:I'm not sure what PCLAS and CLAS are. Sounds like it's different to what we do at our range. We just shoot paper targets (which might be animal shaped, with lines within, with different scores if you hit in those areas, or standard bullseye type paper targets, at 100m, 50m, and 25m.
No1Mk3 wrote:FTX is just hunting ammo, not target grade. it is somewhat faster and flatter shooting than FN/SP or LFN and so some find it easier to shoot well at ranges encountered in comp. i only used it twice (with a borrowed Henry as I no longer own a 357 rifle) and found no advantage over hand loaded ammo.