Crossovers coming now

[MeccaOz]

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[Chronos]

I love the add in Shooter mag featuring a blokey type bloke holding a rimfire while looking over miles of rugged ranges.....
I'm thinking if you're trekking into that kind of country...you'll need a bit more than a rimfire

Must be where all those pygmy deer live. The little 2kg bucks.

They exist, right?

of course they do

That pic must have been taken after the shed, here's one taken in the middle of the rut



Chronos

[MeccaOz]

LMAO

[Apollo]

Don't for a second believe they're an Aussie company.... They may be employing Aussies (I would assume unless there importing the workers too) and they'll produce the 22 rifle until the bosses in PARIS say so..... yup. as Aussie as frogs legs mate!

If you are going to say that then you might as well include the ADI Powder we use. Parent company Thales France.

Then if you own a Commodore or Falcon you are in the same situation. Both being "Yank Tanks" since their Parent Company is in the USA.

[Chronos]

Don't for a second believe they're an Aussie company.... They may be employing Aussies (I would assume unless there importing the workers too) and they'll produce the 22 rifle until the bosses in PARIS say so..... yup. as Aussie as frogs legs mate!

If you are going to say that then you might as well include the ADI Powder we use. Parent company Thales France.

Then if you own a Commodore or Falcon you are in the same situation. Both being "Yank Tanks" since their Parent Company is in the USA.

The basically are, the commodore is designed and built around a template set out by GM to accept their drivetrain, a cost cutting measure. And that's going to increase as we loose the rear drive commodore and adopt their front drive layout I the next five years or so

What then? Australian made rifles that are just FN barreled actions in Australian made stocks?

Chronos

[1290]

Don't for a second believe they're an Aussie company.... They may be employing Aussies (I would assume unless there importing the workers too) and they'll produce the 22 rifle until the bosses in PARIS say so..... yup. as Aussie as frogs legs mate!

If you are going to say that then you might as well include the ADI Powder we use. Parent company Thales France.

Then if you own a Commodore or Falcon you are in the same situation. Both being "Yank Tanks" since their Parent Company is in the USA.

Absolutely, Ford, GMH, toyo, mitsu, the great Aussie myth of Aussie cars.....

And let's not start on selling out our defense industries....

[Apollo]

Bit late on selling our Defence Industry. Already happened to Thales both ADI and Lithgow Small Arms Factory making the Australian Military's Austeyr Rifles.

At least the Crossover is something new, time will tell on it's value and overall accuracy.

[MeccaOz]

Bit late on selling our Defence Industry. Already happened to Thales both ADI and Lithgow Small Arms Factory making the Australian Military's Austeyr Rifles.

At least the Crossover is something new, time will tell on it's value and overall accuracy.

Yeah It was made in Australia. thats about the best we can hope for in todays market. If it takes off Im sure the parent will sell it world wide. Either way I do need a rimfire, and if it turns out to be a good small game hunter in people eyes I'll take a look then and give it preference.

[Mark TAC]

Not big on the stock. They are talking about plastics moulding based on F88 tech. Assault rifles are not exactly known for precision. So we are talking tough and nice finish - great- but how about the accuracy / stiffness / bedding of that stock? I doubt it is really very good.

Yes all .22's have moulded stocks, not real fibreglass. BUT for double the price I'd expect a bit more.

If it shoots 1moa and has a stock made from recycled Coke bottles it is no better than any $400 rimfire, so I reckon it won't sell.

[1290]

Bit late on selling our Defence Industry. Already happened to Thales both ADI and Lithgow Small Arms Factory making the Australian Military's Austeyr Rifles.

At least the Crossover is something new, time will tell on it's value and overall accuracy.

I'm saying dont get ME started on selling out....

But as far as how well it will do sales wise, the 'Aussies who want that piece of Aussie nostalgia' yes, will buy it, then what.... the yanks wont buy it, not sure if taa-less will try to sell it over there. If they do it will be like the powder - half price to the USA market...

[howtow]

Ford are moving out of manufacturing in Australia now.

Maybe a gun maker can pick up their old factory for some real Australian made

[headwerkn]

Oh but it does(sp) bring something extra , it's cerakoted to look like stainless

Actually it is Cerakoted to look like satiny-dull-titanium. It's quite attractive to look at in the flesh, doesn't reflect light to scare off quarry and most importantly is less likely to rust than either stainless or blued steel. Considering how much an after-the-fact Cerakote job costs ($300-$350), it's actually one of the things that helps the CrossOver justify its pricing premium over a $700 blued CZ452.

What concerns me is that in the magazine reviews they showed some groups around the 1"mark, so what You might say? They then go on to say they shot the rifles using various brands of ammo at the factory's 25 m testing range.

It was over 50 metres... trust me, I was one of the blokes there in March for the pre-release media event.

The very short amount of time we got to actually fathom the rifle's potential for accuracy was pretty frustrating, to be honest... the breeze was rather variable on the range, we were bouncing between I think 6 different types of ammo which seemed to be producing a lot of fouling shots/flyers on otherwise promising groups... that and with 7 blokes all hankering for trigger time it was all rather rushed. I don't pretend to be the greatest benchrester on the planet - nailing rabbits is more my thing - but given the likes of Briel, Andy, John and Sir Nick Harvey himself were managing the same sub-1" groups that I was, something was definitely up.

Lithgow Arms said prior there were managing under 1MOA and sent me through some groups from one of their testers, averaging 0.8 to 0.5MOA. It's on the CrossOver thread at ShootingAustralia.net if you're interested.

To be honest the rifle's real accuracy won't be known until a bunch of very capable shooters get the time to sit down and tinker, but all signs indicate it should be a pretty darn capable rifle.

Don't for a second believe they're an Aussie company.... They may be employing Aussies (I would assume unless there importing the workers too)
and they'll produce the 22 rifle until the bosses in PARIS say so..... yup. as Aussie as frogs legs mate!

No getting around that Lithgow Arms is ultimately owned by Thales and Thales is a French-multinational, but to claim it isn't an Aussie rifle is drawing a long bow. It was designed in Australia, by Australians, and is built in Lithgow and Melbourne (where the stocks are made) by Australians. And yes, most of the blokes on the factory floor looked pretty darn Aussie to me. Lithgow Arms say that 92% of the rifle's value is Australian made.... by way of comparison, to apply for the 'Australian Made' logo/programme requires only 50% value. About the only thing on the rifle that isn't Australian is the raw steel for the barrel and action, which comes from Europe as decent barrel steel is simply not available locally these days.

It's worth mentioning that the CrossOver is Lithgow Arms/Thales first venture into branching out into the civilian market to decrease their dependency on the Australian military market, which will contract once the SA2 program is complete. The CrossOver program has been designed and costed entirely around our local market; if it is successful other models will follow. They're pretty damn serious about taking a decent chunk of the market here long term. Given that few would have thought 2 years ago we'd see a mass produced Australian made rifle again, the times are indeed exciting.

Not big on the stock. They are talking about plastics moulding based on F88 tech. Assault rifles are not exactly known for precision. So we are talking tough and nice finish - great- but how about the accuracy / stiffness / bedding of that stock? I doubt it is really very good.

The stock uses a fairly intricate 4-point bedding system and the barrel is fully floated as you'd expect. The prototype I handled/shot was machined rather than the moulded polymer the production rifles use but it was very solid indeed with no discernible flex or twist. I've handed a few sub-$500 plastic stock'd rifles and this felt nothing like any of them.

Invariably some people will always prefer timber stocks (it'll happen sooner or later) but the polymer stock for the initial version made sense; it's where Lithgow's expertise and supply ability was at, and as an all-weather hunting/farm rifle, combined with the cerakoted metal, it's the smarter option IMHO.

And you're talking about someone who owns over a dozen timber-and-blue'd rifles, including 8 Lithgow Slazengers

Cheers, Ben.

[Apollo]

Reads like a "paid advertisement"....

Just remembering from that other Forum that Ben is a LSAF (Slazenger) Nut...and I mean that politely Ben.

The amount of testing / trials that have been done are no indication on how the production versions will be greeted by the public. Price / availability / accuracy / austhetics and really just general acceptance. Time will tell.

It's a wonder "old mate Nick" was able to get down to Lithgow and chew a few ears.

I'll be really interested to see how the "Crossover" compares to some European builds.

Publicity means nothing, performance means everything.

[Chronos]

Paid advertisement I doubt it but I'm certain Ben has a lot invested in the crossover given how involved he has been with its promotion and development since it was announced way back when.

As for that other place, I wouldn't waste my time there. I stopped reading it when some bloke decided he was god

As for the cerekoting , I don't really care how expensive the process is at retail rates. My point was that in my opinion it looks cheap and tacky, but I guess I'm not their target market because my pack doesn't have Molle attached

Chronos.

[Warrigul]

Paid advertisement I doubt it but I'm certain Ben has a lot invested in the crossover given how involved he has been with its promotion and development since it was announced way back when.

As for that other place, I wouldn't waste my time there. I stopped reading it when some bloke decided he was god

As for the cerekoting , I don't really care how expensive the process is at retail rates. My point was that in my opinion it looks cheap and tacky, but I guess I'm not their target market because my pack doesn't have Molle attached

Chronos.

You have only recently started hunting, haven't even held the rifle in question(albeit the test rifle is a prototype) and didn't even understand that most .22s are rear locking until it was pointed out to you.

Yet you seem to have an awful lot of opinions about it...........................

[Chronos]

Paid advertisement I doubt it but I'm certain Ben has a lot invested in the crossover given how involved he has been with its promotion and development since it was announced way back when.

As for that other place, I wouldn't waste my time there. I stopped reading it when some bloke decided he was god

As for the cerekoting , I don't really care how expensive the process is at retail rates. My point was that in my opinion it looks cheap and tacky, but I guess I'm not their target market because my pack doesn't have Molle attached

Chronos.

You have only recently started hunting, haven't even held the rifle in question(albeit the test rifle is a prototype) and didn't even understand that most .22s are rear locking until it was pointed out to you.

Yet you seem to have an awful lot of opinions about it...........................

Must have been another Australian made .22 I held at the SHOT show then

Although I've only recently started hunting I have been involved in smallbore shooting, rimfire metallic silhouette and other forms of rimfire competition, firing between 40 and 120 rounds a week at one point but that's totally irrelevant to my opinion that the coating on this rifle looks less impressive than i would expect for the price.

Of course if I stop posting in this forum you'd have nothing to write because you only stick your head in here to criticise my posts.

You seem to be quite knowledgable, it's a shame you don't contribute more on this forum than your lame attempts to troll me.


Chronos

[MeccaOz]

Ducks .... removes himself from in between 1290 and Chronos , laffin. To me a beautiful rifle has Damascus steel which the bluing brings out and deep dark Walnut, sand back perfectly with a nice varnished gloss. A useful rifle on the other hand and given todays technologies, is a synthetic stock stainless baRREL AND CERAKOTED BOTH AND OTHER METALLIC EXTREMITIES <<< a ghost turned my caps on, sorry. But anyway my point is different strokes for different folks. I'd say thales did there marketing research and will use there steyr aug to help market it ( which they are doing already ) and I'd say the stock and cerakoting will be part of that "Battle" toughness they will play on.

[Warrigul]

Although I've only recently started hunting I have been involved in smallbore shooting, rimfire metallic silhouette and other forms of rimfire competition, firing between 40 and 120 rounds a week at one point but that's totally irrelevant to my opinion that the coating on this rifle looks less impressive than i would expect for the price.

If that were true you would have noticed where the locking lug/s were.........................

It is interesting, you have said trolling but I was simply pointing out where you were totally and utterly wrong each time, if that upsets you then so be it.

But you did say you were ignoring me so I didn't really expect a response,

[MeccaOz]

But you did say you were ignoring me so I didn't really expect a response, so be it IE.

How can he tell you he is ignoring you... IF he is in fact ignoring you ? Just kidding guys, come on where all mates, with different opinions and different sets of stuff we eye closely ... I guess if you get a bunch of passionate shooters in a group it will come to fisticuffs BECAUSE MY 308 IS BETTER THAN YOUR 270

[Warrigul]

Ducks .... removes himself from in between 1290 and Chronos , laffin. To me a beautiful rifle has Damascus steel which the bluing brings out and deep dark Walnut, sand back perfectly with a nice varnished gloss. A useful rifle on the other hand and given todays technologies, is a synthetic stock stainless baRREL AND CERAKOTED BOTH AND OTHER METALLIC EXTREMITIES <<< a ghost turned my caps on, sorry. But anyway my point is different strokes for different folks. I'd say thales did there marketing research and will use there steyr aug to help market it ( which they are doing already ) and I'd say the stock and cerakoting will be part of that "Battle" toughness they will play on.

I love Stainless/synthetic from a practical point of view but I am the first to admit that my tikkas and ruger are extremely ugly, practical but ugly.

I have kept hold of a mid 19th century damascus twist shotgun with its case hardened sideplates simply to look at because it is a thing of beauty.

Quality wood and blue are nice and often more durable than some may think.

[MeccaOz]

Ducks .... removes himself from in between 1290 and Chronos , laffin. To me a beautiful rifle has Damascus steel which the bluing brings out and deep dark Walnut, sand back perfectly with a nice varnished gloss. A useful rifle on the other hand and given todays technologies, is a synthetic stock stainless baRREL AND CERAKOTED BOTH AND OTHER METALLIC EXTREMITIES <<< a ghost turned my caps on, sorry. But anyway my point is different strokes for different folks. I'd say thales did there marketing research and will use there steyr aug to help market it ( which they are doing already ) and I'd say the stock and cerakoting will be part of that "Battle" toughness they will play on.

I love Stainless/synthetic from a practical point of view but I am the first to admit that my tikkas and ruger are extremely ugly, practical but ugly.

I have kept hold of a mid 19th century damascus twist shotgun with its case hardened sideplates simply to look at because it is a thing of beauty.

Quality wood and blue are nice and often more durable than some may think.

I agree wood and bluing is tough it's been used for how many years now ? LOL and I do agree about the ugly remark, but I do hate crying like a 14 year old school girl in front my mates when a rifle gets scratched, so if it's a working gun for me, I'll coat it and go with stainless and synthetic... BTW can I come look at your shotgun ... I'll try not to drool

[1290]

But you did say you were ignoring me so I didn't really expect a response, so be it IE.

How can he tell you he is ignoring you... IF he is in fact ignoring you ? Just kidding guys, come on where all mates, with different opinions and different sets of stuff we eye closely ... I guess if you get a bunch of passionate shooters in a group it will come to fisticuffs BECAUSE MY 308 IS BETTER THAN YOUR 270

SHAAADUP, my 300 is better than your 308 pfffft!

anyway I'm apparently dumb/ignorant/arrogant, but you two up there^ are arguing about lugs and what, where they may or may not be and the colour blue??? and whether you're ignoring each other..... well I did ignore that comment too...

[WesleySnipes]

Am I the only one who thinks this rifle just looks... tacky? Compared to rifles of a similar price it seems like a bit of a gimmick.

But as I haven't held one or shot one yet that's just speculation from what I've seen so far.

And the fact that it's rear locking shouldn't really be an issue if it's made with quality materials and firing rimfire calibres. My .22 only has one and does great

[MeccaOz]

Am I the only one who thinks this rifle just looks... tacky? Compared to rifles of a similar price it seems like a bit of a gimmick.

But as I haven't held one or shot one yet that's just speculation from what I've seen so far.

And the fact that it's rear locking shouldn't really be an issue if it's made with quality materials and firing rimfire calibres. My .22 only has one and does great

Since every man and his dog has a trusty .22 I'd say gimmicks and the "Made In Australia" things are what it's banking on ... I hope with both of those comes a hardy straight shooter too

[headwerkn]

Reads like a "paid advertisement".... .

If that's the case then Lithgow Arms must be sending those cheques to the wrong address....

For the record, I'm not employed by nor receive any financial compensation by LA or Thales. I paid RRP for my own LA101 back in February and despite my dealer's best efforts, still managed to end up 200-and-something in line with Winchester Australia, so no favours there. I was a guest of theirs in March for the pre-launch press day but forked out a few hundred bucks of my own cash for flights up to Sydney to attend.

As you said, I'm a Lithgow-Slazenger (and Aussie sporting rifles in general) fan and collector, so the notion of a brand new Australian built rifle in 2014 - made in the LSAF no less - is pretty damn exciting. I can appreciate people's apprehension and concerns given the production version is still something of an unknown quantity, and not everyone can afford to throw a cool grand on sheer patriotism, but honestly some of the nonsense that has been said in regards to the CrossOver over the past 6+ months - not just here, mind you - has been downright idiotic... which is why I felt compelled to write what I wrote.

Ultimately the product itself will sink or swim on its own merits - if it's rubbish, then at best it'll be Australian made rubbish - but I think it would be a mighty shame for it to start at a disadvantage in terms of public perception because of uninformed souls trash-talking it down for whatever on-paper reasons they can muster. If it's not your idea of a perfect rifle, fine, don't buy it and wait for something to come along that is, but I think we'd all at least like to see an Aussie made rifle or three be available well into the future.... so at least until you've actually picked one up and fired it, maybe give it half a chance.

Cheers, Ben.

[MeccaOz]

Mate I hope it swims, but in saying that I wont buy it if it's crap, and I think most people who want a hunting/sporting .22 will do the same at the end of the day. I also think most guns get the same treatment, in forum terms, up's and downs, but with the crossover introduction vs wait time, I dont think it's done itself any favors, but the proof will be in the pudding, and I for 1 thankyou for your input

[headwerkn]

You're very welcome mate.

I agree wholeheartedly the delay has been unfortunate and there undoubtedly ways the company could have kept people more informed of progress. It's something they're very much aware of and with any luck they'll do better with the centrefire CrossOver variant and subsequent releases.

That said I think the fair majority of people would've much preferred LA to take the extra ~6 months to implement some of the extra suggestions they received from the initial prototypes last year, and generally get it 'right', rather than bring a product to market on time but incomplete. I honestly don't believe the market here would have tolerated a substandard product, regardless of how many kangaroo swing tags it came with.... not at that price point anyway, and definitely not one carrying the Lithgow name.

Hopefully we'll start to see some solid reports over the next couple of weeks, and see if the wait was worth it.

[MeccaOz]

You're very welcome mate.

I agree wholeheartedly the delay has been unfortunate and there undoubtedly ways the company could have kept people more informed of progress. It's something they're very much aware of and with any luck they'll do better with the centrefire CrossOver variant and subsequent releases.

That said I think the fair majority of people would've much preferred LA to take the extra ~6 months to implement some of the extra suggestions they received from the initial prototypes last year, and generally get it 'right', rather than bring a product to market on time but incomplete. I honestly don't believe the market here would have tolerated a substandard product, regardless of how many kangaroo swing tags it came with.... not at that price point anyway, and definitely not one carrying the Lithgow name.

Hopefully we'll start to see some solid reports over the next couple of weeks, and see if the wait was worth it.

I think ya nailed it on all counts, I think that green and gold Roo hanging off it, wants to make us all proud and I hope it does

[Warrigul]

until you've actually picked one up and fired it, maybe give it half a chance.

Cheers, Ben.

That is well said,

There have been quite a few knockers, some whom are at best internet experts.

I wouldn't have rushed and bought one on the basis of a prototype, I know a couple of people who have them in the pipeline and it will be very interesting to see how they go.

That will be the real test.