Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

[5Tom]

Looking to buy a cheap rifle out of the Remington 700 SPS vs 783 vs Howa 1500.

Budgets about $700 and will be chambered in 30-06.
Not interested in blind magazines but hinged floor plates and box mags are fine.

Remington 783 has a magnum contour barrel which is a plus.
Remington 700 SPS based on R700 accuracy

Most stocks on offer have been rather flexible at the fore end, would prefer not to have to upgrade more.

Looking for experienced advice as to which is the better buy and open to other makes and models.

Thank you!

[Chronos]

You'll find most of the entry level synthetic stocks have a fair bit of forend flex. It's a factor of keeping weight and costs down. In my experience the tikka is the stiffest.

That said given that you're choosing a rifle in. 30-06 its safe to assume you'll be doing more shooting on foot rather than varminting off a bipod so flex probably won't be an issue, neither will extreme accuracy but weight might.

Why not look at walnut stocked rifles? They tend to be stiffer than light weight synthetic rifles

Don't discount the entry level savage rifles in this class , from all a counts they perform well.

Chronos

[yoshie]

Weatherby vanguard synthetic stock is better than the howa for flex.

[Mattj82]

Hey Chronos, just wondering what is available at this price point in a walnut stock? I'm in a similar position and was looking at the R 700, albeit in .223. I've was put off by the 1:12 twist, which all the cheaper 223s seem to have

Matt

[bigfellascott]

Don't touch a Remington, you'll more than likely regret it, their quality control is s**t, it really is a lucky dip if you get one that works as it should or a lemon than will see you back and forth to the gunshop - just not worth the risk in my opinion. Another one that's worth looking at is the Ruger American, they seem to shoot alright for the $$.

Yeah I know Remingtons if you find a good one can shoot but is it worth the risk trying to find said Remington? Not to me it ain't!

[5Tom]

We haven't had a chance to look at the vanguard s2, apparently that is supposed to be pretty good also.

The savage axis stock felt uncomfortable and was advised money be better spent elsewhere.

A tikka would be ideal, but cost way over budget, even for basic model.

My mate will be putting a bipod on his rifle. I probably won't though so to him, we need a bit of stiffness. We thought about injecting a resin or alloy rods to prevent flex?

[5Tom]

My friend discouned the American, can't remember why though but it was a deal breaker for him. Both of us will get identical rifles.

Bigfellascott - is your dislike for Remington through personal experience? What issues caused these rifles to be troublesome?

[bigfellascott]

My friend discouned the American, can't remember why though but it was a deal breaker for him. Both of us will get identical rifles.

Bigfellascott - is your dislike for Remington through personal experience? What issues caused these rifles to be troublesome?

No personal experience with ownership of the new breed of Rems but have seen a few with issues, the old ones were fine, do a search around and you will soon see that the Rems have a great rep for being duds often. I even know of a few firearms shops that will no longer stock them because they have so many issues and they are fed up with having to deal with Rems poor quality control.

They have the Nickname of "Remington Roulette" for a very good reason because it really is luck if you get one that doesn't have issues. Me I'd rather avoid the hassles and not take the chance of being fooked around for mths and mths on end and not have a rifle to use, there are better options out there so I'd say definitely go one of those before even entertaining the idea of a Remington Roulette.

By the way I did see a fella one day at Belmont who'd just bought a new SPS, his first shot and nothing, no bang no extraction not a bloody thing! needless to say he was some what pissed and off he went back to play the Remington Roulette game, I also know of one that had a bent barrel but it still shot well, not sure for how long though.

I guess if your dead set on one roll the dice and see what happens but if she's fooked you were warned so don't come whinging.

It quite simply comes down to whether you want to take the risk or not?

[Jack V]

Buy a Howa 1500 in a laminated wood stock .

[5Tom]

Thanks bigfella, will do some more research on that point.

[bigfellascott]

Thanks bigfella, will do some more research on that point.

Yeah have a look around the forums mate, you should be able to find something about em, as I said I wouldn't go near em with the quality control standard they seem to be using, it's just not up to scratch to my mind, its a shame really as they had a great rep and products in years gone by.

Good luck which ever way you go.

[Jack V]

+1 . It is a shame they have let Remington's quality slide .

[beerhog]

I must have got lucky with my Remington. In a cheap Boyd's stock it feeds goes bang and can shoot 1\2 MOA groups.only down side is it is fussy on what projies it likes and I had to try a few to find what it likes.

[5Tom]

I've been doing a lot of reading in regards to Remington. I think a lot of flack towards remington seems to come from the m770 and the issues plagued along with it. Plenty of bad feedback about the 770, however I've read nothing but good for the 783. There has been the odd negative thread, but it doesn't seem consistent enough to put doubt in the 783.

I'm still looking at the howa 1500 and the vanguard S2, but they are both a little more than in willing to spend.

The stock on the savage axis/2 is something I would replace quickly.

Is there any feedback on mechanical wear, build quality, consistent groups with factory ammo for vanguard and savage?

[artimu]

+1 . It is a shame they have let Remington's quality slide .

That's the feedback from a few these days.

Did any clear reason surface for this?

Change in factory or owner or anything?

Or just cutting some internal, unexplained costs somewhere...

[bigfellascott]

I believe that the 783 has a plastic bolt handle, plastic stock, plastic bottom trigger guard, plastic mag and god only knows what else is plastic - That's a lot of plastic to fatigue over time, sounds like she's just about all made out of Recycled Garbage Bins as I call it!!

The other thing I wonder about is how all these cheap plastic filled firearms will hold up over the years, will they stand the test of time or will the bits fail and render them useless so to speak (might be hard to get replacement parts down the track)? Time will tell on that one.

I guess Tommy roll the dice mate and see how it goes, you can always sell it if its crap hey.

[deye243]

just buy a howa barreled action and then buy a boyds stock i have done this 4 times and all good and cheap, for a start the barreled action is cheaper as you ain't paying for a stock you don't need .

[bigfellascott]

just buy a howa barreled action and then buy a boyds stock i have done this 4 times and all good and cheap, for a start the barreled action is cheaper as you ain't paying for a stock you don't need .

+1 - All mine have been good shooters.

[Jack V]

+1 . It is a shame they have let Remington's quality slide .

That's the feedback from a few these days.

Did any clear reason surface for this?

Change in factory or owner or anything?

Or just cutting some internal, unexplained costs somewhere...

I have never looked into it as I have only ever owned one Remington 700 many years back and it was good .
However a few guys at my range have showed me some ordinary looking Remington's over the last few years .
Rough machining and one with a real daggy looking bore . I guess all manufactures have their failures at times.
Without knowing for sure I would say that the problem is trying to compete with overseas companies that pay very low wages .
Also Remington had a history of moving about the country and wasting millions of dollars and loosing skilled workers .
I think bad management is part of the problem.

[Combat_Wombat]

I believe that the 783 has a plastic bolt handle, plastic stock, plastic bottom trigger guard, plastic mag and god only knows what else is plastic - That's a lot of plastic to fatigue over time, sounds like she's just about all made out of Recycled Garbage Bins as I call it!!

The other thing I wonder about is how all these cheap plastic filled firearms will hold up over the years, will they stand the test of time or will the bits fail and render them useless so to speak (might be hard to get replacement parts down the track)? Time will tell on that one.

I guess Tommy roll the dice mate and see how it goes, you can always sell it if its crap hey.

Well if you can say one thing they won't rust too much

[bigfellascott]

Probably melt before they rust hey? I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days.

I'll be screwed if Howa start making em out of plastic like the other cheaper firearms!

[horter]

I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days.

I felt that way a bit when Sako did the A7.

Not saying it's a bad rifle, but feels a lot like a cheapening of the Sako brand to me.

You look at their lineup and have offerings like the Brown Bear, Bavarian, Safari, Varmint and Hunter rifles... And then you have the A7, which sticks out like dogs balls as a cheap copy compared to the rest.

[bigfellascott]

I felt that way a bit when Sako did the A7.

Not saying it's a bad rifle, but feels a lot like a cheapening of the Sako brand to me.

You look at their lineup and have offerings like the Brown Bear, Bavarian, Safari, Varmint and Hunter rifles... And then you have the A7, which sticks out like dogs balls as a cheap copy compared to the rest.

Yeah fair comment mate, is there any diff action wise between the A7 and an 85? and what's the price diff between em too if you know mate?

[Warrigul]

Yeah I know Remingtons if you find a good one can shoot but is it worth the risk trying to find said Remington? Not to me it ain't!

+1

Yep, the Kia of the rifle world(ducks quickly as the remington owners throw all manner of objects at him).

"Yep bob I replaced the trigger, stock, had the action trued and fitted a match barrel and my new Remington shoots like a dream, wouldn't buy anything else."

Sorry I shouldn't s**t stir...............

[Warrigul]

:lol: Probably melt before they rust hey? I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days.

I'll be screwed if Howa start making em out of plastic like the other cheaper firearms!

A bit off topic but I remember when the Drager breathing apparatus sets went from steel bottles and backplate to fibre wrapped alloy bottles and polymer backplate(in private industry we got them about two years before Government services). My first question was wouldn't they melt? Basically I was told that if the bottles and backplate were melting on my back then breathing was the least of my worries. I shut up pretty quickly after that.

[1290]

You know.... If you cross the Atlantic you can have a timber stocked Mauser* for that kind of money.... yup...


*Disclaimer for the pedants. ...Mauser 98 type action, not actual Mauser factory produced.

[Press]

I think the trick with some of the high-temperature applications stuff is using crystalline polymers. I think that's the name.

I really don't know a lot about this but I believe the basic scale of how crystal a polymer is goes from zero which melts to a liquid like you expect and goes up from there.

With the high crystalline ones used for high-temp stuff the structure of them is like a web or net and holds together like a series of individual bits as the bonds weaken rather than just melting away in sludge as heat is applied. And the temperature to break the bonds of the high-temp stuff is hundreds of degrees so it might be damaged and unusable next time due to heat but won't go sliding down your back in the process.

I've done a s**t job of explaining that, but I believe that's the broad strokes of it.

[1290]

if you dont want the polymer to melt... then you use a thermosetting plastc, as opposed to a thermoplastic that melts with heat...

Everyone will recognise the old polyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride as probably the first thermoset... aka Bakelite...

Yeah baby, Bakelite stock!!

If it was crystalline in structure then it wouldnt be a polymer (AKA plastic) as far as I'm aware.....

When it comes to tupaware stocks.....nothing beats timber

[Press]

If it was crystalline in structure then it wouldnt be a polymer (AKA plastic) as far as I'm aware...

You could be right mate.

I'm just explaining it as I understand it (and that's 9 10ths of f*** all if I'm honest )

Perhaps that's where the scale comes in? Below a certain point it's still plastic and above it's something else.

[Gregg]

Yeah baby, Bakelite stock!!

It would work for a retro look