Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Jack V » 25 Nov 2014, 6:42 pm

artimu wrote:
Jack V wrote:+1 . It is a shame they have let Remington's quality slide .


That's the feedback from a few these days.

Did any clear reason surface for this?

Change in factory or owner or anything?

Or just cutting some internal, unexplained costs somewhere...

I have never looked into it as I have only ever owned one Remington 700 many years back and it was good .
However a few guys at my range have showed me some ordinary looking Remington's over the last few years .
Rough machining and one with a real daggy looking bore . I guess all manufactures have their failures at times.
Without knowing for sure I would say that the problem is trying to compete with overseas companies that pay very low wages .
Also Remington had a history of moving about the country and wasting millions of dollars and loosing skilled workers .
I think bad management is part of the problem.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Combat_Wombat » 25 Nov 2014, 7:12 pm

bigfellascott wrote:I believe that the 783 has a plastic bolt handle, plastic stock, plastic bottom trigger guard, plastic mag and god only knows what else is plastic - That's a lot of plastic to fatigue over time, sounds like she's just about all made out of Recycled Garbage Bins as I call it!! :lol:

The other thing I wonder about is how all these cheap plastic filled firearms will hold up over the years, will they stand the test of time or will the bits fail and render them useless so to speak (might be hard to get replacement parts down the track)? Time will tell on that one.

I guess Tommy roll the dice mate and see how it goes, you can always sell it if its crap hey. :D



Well if you can say one thing they won't rust too much :lol:
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Nov 2014, 8:01 pm

:lol: Probably melt before they rust hey? :lol: I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days. :?

I'll be screwed if Howa start making em out of plastic like the other cheaper firearms! :lol:
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by horter » 26 Nov 2014, 10:44 am

bigfellascott wrote:I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days. :?


I felt that way a bit when Sako did the A7.

Not saying it's a bad rifle, but feels a lot like a cheapening of the Sako brand to me.

You look at their lineup and have offerings like the Brown Bear, Bavarian, Safari, Varmint and Hunter rifles... And then you have the A7, which sticks out like dogs balls as a cheap copy compared to the rest.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Nov 2014, 11:10 am

horter wrote:I felt that way a bit when Sako did the A7.

Not saying it's a bad rifle, but feels a lot like a cheapening of the Sako brand to me.

You look at their lineup and have offerings like the Brown Bear, Bavarian, Safari, Varmint and Hunter rifles... And then you have the A7, which sticks out like dogs balls as a cheap copy compared to the rest.


Yeah fair comment mate, is there any diff action wise between the A7 and an 85? and what's the price diff between em too if you know mate?
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Warrigul » 26 Nov 2014, 11:34 am

bigfellascott wrote:
Yeah I know Remingtons if you find a good one can shoot but is it worth the risk trying to find said Remington? Not to me it ain't!


+1

Yep, the Kia of the rifle world(ducks quickly as the remington owners throw all manner of objects at him).

"Yep bob I replaced the trigger, stock, had the action trued and fitted a match barrel and my new Remington shoots like a dream, wouldn't buy anything else."

Sorry I shouldn't s**t stir...............
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Warrigul » 26 Nov 2014, 11:41 am

bigfellascott wrote::lol: Probably melt before they rust hey? :lol: I'm just gobsmacked at how much plastic is being used in cheap arse firearms these days for no other reason that its cheaper to manufacture stuff out off, sad really these days. :?

I'll be screwed if Howa start making em out of plastic like the other cheaper firearms! :lol:


A bit off topic but I remember when the Drager breathing apparatus sets went from steel bottles and backplate to fibre wrapped alloy bottles and polymer backplate(in private industry we got them about two years before Government services). My first question was wouldn't they melt? Basically I was told that if the bottles and backplate were melting on my back then breathing was the least of my worries. I shut up pretty quickly after that.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by 1290 » 26 Nov 2014, 12:26 pm

You know.... If you cross the Atlantic you can have a timber stocked Mauser* for that kind of money.... yup...


*Disclaimer for the pedants. ...Mauser 98 type action, not actual Mauser factory produced.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Press » 26 Nov 2014, 12:30 pm

I think the trick with some of the high-temperature applications stuff is using crystalline polymers. I think that's the name.

I really don't know a lot about this but I believe the basic scale of how crystal a polymer is goes from zero which melts to a liquid like you expect and goes up from there.

With the high crystalline ones used for high-temp stuff the structure of them is like a web or net and holds together like a series of individual bits as the bonds weaken rather than just melting away in sludge as heat is applied. And the temperature to break the bonds of the high-temp stuff is hundreds of degrees so it might be damaged and unusable next time due to heat but won't go sliding down your back in the process.

I've done a s**t job of explaining that, but I believe that's the broad strokes of it.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by 1290 » 26 Nov 2014, 12:48 pm

if you dont want the polymer to melt... then you use a thermosetting plastc, as opposed to a thermoplastic that melts with heat...

Everyone will recognise the old polyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride as probably the first thermoset... aka Bakelite...

Yeah baby, Bakelite stock!!

If it was crystalline in structure then it wouldnt be a polymer (AKA plastic) as far as I'm aware.....

When it comes to tupaware stocks.....nothing beats timber :D
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Press » 26 Nov 2014, 3:15 pm

1290 wrote:If it was crystalline in structure then it wouldnt be a polymer (AKA plastic) as far as I'm aware...


You could be right mate.

I'm just explaining it as I understand it (and that's 9 10ths of f*** all if I'm honest :lol:)

Perhaps that's where the scale comes in? Below a certain point it's still plastic and above it's something else.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Gregg » 26 Nov 2014, 3:16 pm

1290 wrote:Yeah baby, Bakelite stock!!


It would work for a retro look ;)
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Rippah » 26 Nov 2014, 3:21 pm

1290 wrote:Everyone will recognise the old polyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride...


Ah... Yeah...
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Nov 2014, 3:41 pm

Mattj82 wrote:Hey Chronos, just wondering what is available at this price point in a walnut stock? I'm in a similar position and was looking at the R 700, albeit in .223. I've was put off by the 1:12 twist, which all the cheaper 223s seem to have :(

Matt


I believe the Howa comes in a 1 in 9 twist these days.
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Re: Remington 700SPS/783 vs Howa 1500

Post by Westy » 26 Nov 2014, 4:00 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Don't touch a Remington, you'll more than likely regret it, their quality control is s**t, it really is a lucky dip if you get one that works as it should or a lemon than will see you back and forth to the gunshop - just not worth the risk in my opinion. Another one that's worth looking at is the Ruger American, they seem to shoot alright for the $$.

Yeah I know Remingtons if you find a good one can shoot but is it worth the risk trying to find said Remington? Not to me it ain't!



X2 less money for less disappointment :shock: :o :shock:
I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.
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