P13 and P14 rifles

[1290]

come on bring it on Warrigul.... we ALL want to see it!!! Every angle, good lighting and focus thanks.....

Bring it on..... and I might even put up some picks of my micky mouse Lithy smelly and even my* Enfield EM2....



*Ok, not really mine... but I did fondle it!

waiting..........................................

[Gregg]

Everyone loves an Enfield.

Lets see it

[beerd]

Only 1257 built Wiki says.

Special.

[Warrigul]

For those that reckon P14 sniper rifles were only issued to Australian troops in the Middle East.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/015729/

[Warrigul]

Correction, I often mix up P13, 14 and 17.

It is a bitch when you have all three.

[sally-bee]

So I'm confused now... Which one is it

[horter]

but I did fondle it!

We've all done that.

Oh you mean the gun

[Warrigul]

So I'm confused now... Which one is it

P14

P13 - you generally won't see one, especially in its original wood.
P14 is .303
P17 is 30-06

Most look pretty similar except for finger grooves and volley sights etc etc,

A couple of months ago at the range I spent all day calling my 30-06 a P14, it is just one of those little things like me not being able to spell February and Licence (spellcheck).

[Harper]

it is just one of those little things like me not being able to spell February

Stupidly spelled word

[Blackened]

Merged these two topics as they were really the same conversation.

[Warrigul]

Merged these two topics as they were really the same conversation.

No they aren't one was 1290 rudely demanding I post a picture of one of my rifles, the other was demonstrating a historical point that P14's were used in New Guinea.

[artimu]

So what's the biggie about them?

Something special or because they're a rare collectable?

[Blackened]

If I mis-interpreted, my bad.

I'm sure 1290 will be a gentleman on the topic from here on...

[1290]

Merged these two topics as they were really the same conversation.

No they aren't one was 1290 rudely demanding I post a picture of one of my rifles, the other was demonstrating a historical point that P14's were used in New Guinea.

Well.... I was kind of half winding Warrigul up.. in a friendly/man loving kind of way (ok not so the man love, thats for N by NW ).. but the other half I would love to see a locally owned '13.....

Wasnt being rude, but you can see from the number of hits that plenty of punters also wants a look
So, ya gonna show'n'tell..... or keep us in suspenders???? ?

[1290]

Pattern 13 was the experimental enfield development rifle, meant to replace the SMLE.... interestingly enough based on the mauser action of the enemy and a newer, higher speed 276 calibre chambering...


Generally they had the diagonal finger grooves in the stock...in addition to the different chambering.

Development was halted by the inconvenience of war....when they decided to stick with the 303 chambering that resulted in the US made pattern 1914 (P14, 303Brit) and the US manufactured/issued model of 1917 (m1917, m17) chambered in 30-06....

These guys were mauser type action, cock on closing....



looks like the remnants of volley sights too...make sure you're wearing the dunlops.. volley fire lads!!

[wrenchman]

real nice guns i dont see to many and guys dont want to let them go when you do see them

[harlow]

Generally they had the diagonal finger grooves in the stock...

Looks kind of uncomfortable really

[tarnagulla]

P13 rifles (in their original .276 chambering) are indeed rare. I recall seeing one for sale in the early eighties at a Gun Show in Melbourne, have never seen one for sale before or since...
When the feathers hit the fan in 1914, it soon became obvious to the British that vast numbers of rifles would eventually be required, far more than the numbers of SMLE rifles that could be produced in England, so it was decided to introduce the P13 in the existing .303 calibre (there were issues with the experimental .276 calibre, particularly rapid throat erosion) but with no hope of producing them in England, orders for such rifles were contracted out to the then neutral USA, Remington and Winchester (the "ERA" production was from a subsidiary of Remington). Thus we have the P14.
Of course, America found itself in much the same position when it entered WWI in 1917 - Springfield had no hope of producing the huge number of their .30-06 rifles, which were standard issue for the US Army at the time, so to meet the shortfall, contracts were awarded to Remington and Winchester to re-tool their P14 lines to allow for a change to .30-06 calibre rifles - hence the M17 (Model of 1917, to be more accurate). "P17" is nonsense, of course...
As for uncomfortable - well, I have used both P14 and M17 rifles in M<ilitary (or Copmbined Service) Discipline comp., and they are not only comfortable, but slick, smooth, and accurate.
Just my two bob's worth, as an old bloke...

[Chronos]

P13 rifles (in their original .276 chambering) are indeed rare. I recall seeing one for sale in the early eighties at a Gun Show in Melbourne, have never seen one for sale before or since...
When the feathers hit the fan in 1914, it soon became obvious to the British that vast numbers of rifles would eventually be required, far more than the numbers of SMLE rifles that could be produced in England, so it was decided to introduce the P13 in the existing .303 calibre (there were issues with the experimental .276 calibre, particularly rapid throat erosion) but with no hope of producing them in England, orders for such rifles were contracted out to the then neutral USA, Remington and Winchester (the "ERA" production was from a subsidiary of Remington). Thus we have the P14.
Of course, America found itself in much the same position when it entered WWI in 1917 - Springfield had no hope of producing the huge number of their .30-06 rifles, which were standard issue for the US Army at the time, so to meet the shortfall, contracts were awarded to Remington and Winchester to re-tool their P14 lines to allow for a change to .30-06 calibre rifles - hence the M17 (Model of 1917, to be more accurate). "P17" is nonsense, of course...
As for uncomfortable - well, I have used both P14 and M17 rifles in M<ilitary (or Copmbined Service) Discipline comp., and they are not only comfortable, but slick, smooth, and accurate.
Just my two bob's worth, as an old bloke...

Shot a M1917 a few weeks ago, not an entirely unpleasant experience

Probably more accurate than any No1, No3 i have shot, hard to tell from the small number of shots. Is that a common thought?

Chronos

[1290]

I think its fair to say that its generally accepted that front lockers are more accurate than rears (the photo of the Aussie holding a p14 sniper NOT a LE!!).... but the LE, in the right hands is damned fast, add to that strippers clip reloads theyre good for 2000+ yards!!! well the volleys say so!

In practice, when shooting off hand or prone, with open sights, whether you're shooting a mauser or a Lee, it all depends on YOUR eye and YOUR technique.... where the action locks is kind of less relevant.

[Chronos]

I think its fair to say that its generally accepted that front lockers are more accurate than rears (the photo of the Aussie holding a p14 sniper NOT a LE!!).... but the LE, in the right hands is damned fast, add to that strippers clip reloads theyre good for 2000+ yards!!! well the volleys say so!

In practice, when shooting off hand or prone, with open sights, whether you're shooting a mauser or a Lee, it all depends on YOUR eye and YOUR technique.... where the action locks is kind of less relevant.

well i now own a LE and a Mauser, so just a springfield, a Lebel, a Caracano, an Ariska, a Mosin nagant and a swede to go, no wait i want service rifles not farm guns

Chronos

[Old Fart]

Shot a M1917 a few weeks ago, not an entirely unpleasant experience

Nice