Howa 223 - Hunting and target shooting rifle

[chrispy88]

Hi all,

I'm after opinions...

I've decided the next rifle will be .223 and am all but sold on a Howa. It will be for hunting and target shooting, but most of the hunting will be stationary varmint style or from a vehicle, with some walking too. I currently don't shoot comp but thought if I set this gun up right I could even start to dabble in F class with it.

With this in mind I'm thinking heavy barrel (I'm a sucker for stainless) and a Boyd's varmint style stock. I'll have a gunsmith set the barrelled action in the stock n schmick the trigger up at the same time. Prob spend about $700 on glass and add decent mounts, bipod etc.

Am I making sense here or wasting my time and money? What do you agree with/disagree with?

Do Howa do a fluted barrel that would be more suitable? Internal mag or detachable mag kit?

And before anyone says it, yes I like Tikkas too, already got one, just want something different.

Thanks in advance.

[Mattj82]

I'm in the same boat (almost). For longer ranges, you need high BC pills, and for high BC pills you need a fast twist; Correct?

Is the Howa barreled action available with 1:8 or 1:9? I've done some research but can't seem to find much information, the Howa site is pretty crap.

Matt

[chrispy88]

I agree, Howa site isn't great. Unfortunately I believe it only comes in 1:12. But I've been told you can still push up to about 65gr projectile from 1:12 so should be suitable for what I want to do I think.

[ebr love]

I'm in the same boat (almost). For longer ranges, you need high BC pills, and for high BC pills you need a fast twist; Correct?

You're on the right track but you're overlapping a few things here which aren't quite right.

Higher BC means the bullet meets less resistance in flight, it loses velocity at a slower rate so goes further before 'running out' of velocity and hitting the ground.

When talking about the same calibre, BC in increased by increasing the length of the bullet (the shape and style of the bullet plays a part too of course)

As a bullet gets longer it gets heavier. In general conversation peoples typically say you need a faster twist for heavier bullets, but it is in fact the length which determines the twist required.

A 70gr soft point, flat base bullet will be a lot shorter than a 70gr VLD, boat tail match bullet. Even though they're the same weight a faster twist would be required for the VLD than the soft point.

So short version, yes... 'high BC pills need a fast twist' but there is a little more to it than that. Just something to be aware of

[Wes]

I think Howa just did 1:12 to start, but pretty certain they do 1:9 and 1:8 twist barrels now.

[Herdsman]

This should help...

From Berger website...

30-45 Grains 1:15 Twist
50-55 Grains 1:14 Twist
60-64 Grains 1:12 Twist
70-75 Grains 1:9 Twist
80 Grains 1:8 Twist

From Sierra Website...

45 Grains 1:16 Twist
50-55 Grains 1:14 Twist
60 Grains 1:12 Twist
65-69 Grains 1:10 Twist
77-80 Grains 1:8 Twist
90 Grains 1:6.5 Twist

Dunno about the Howa twists so will leave that to someone who knows the rifles better.

[Monty]

Chrispy,

On twist... 1:8 is probably going to be the best option for what you're trying to achieve.

Load some fast 55gr for flat shooting varmints, and swap to 80gr pulls for target shooting. 1:8 will cover that range for you.

Heavy barrels are great for accuracy and sustained firing, but not for carrying. Some guys do it but it's not for me. I want a walk around rifle to be light.

Fluting is good to make a barrel more rigid and disperse heat a little better while not being too heavy.

I know you're looking at something other than a Tikka by just FYI... The Fluted Hunter comes in a 1:8 twist .223. Does kind of seem like a perfect option for you.

Up to you of course.

[Press]

I agree, Howa site isn't great.

The Howa website is s**t TBH

Photo of the rifle and the round it's chambered in.

Bugger all information.

[bigfellascott]

Hope this helps (I assume we get the same specs as the yanks) can't see why not, I wouldn't imagine Howa would do different specs for different countries. Looks like the 223's are a 1in9 twist now, I guess the best thing to do is ring up your firearms dealer and ask what the twist rate is just to make sure. They also have fluted options available now (got one in 204).

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

[sha]

can't see why not

Because they water everything down just to piss us off

[chrispy88]

Thanks to all for the help!

Ebr, I didn't realise it was bullet length rather than weight that determined the twist required, as you say the way it is spoken about in conversation gave me the impression it was about the weight. Thanks!

Monty, maybe the fluted barrel will be a good compromise for me. And yes I know, all signs point to the Tikka once again haha! Maybe if I get the Tikka in 223 its a good excuse to sell the 308 to my brother and buy a Ruger scout for my scrub gun hehe.

But if the Howa now comes in 1:9 it will be suitable so I'll go with it. Will put photos up once she's built. Thanks again to all.

[ebr love]

Ebr, I didn't realise it was bullet length rather than weight that determined the twist required, as you say the way it is spoken about in conversation gave me the impression it was about the weight. Thanks!

No problem mate.

For a lot of shooters it doesn't really make a difference, so gets short handed to 'weight' in general conversation.

If you're pushing the limit though, especially with target bullets which are going to be longer than your 'average' bullet which others are talking about it's important to understand.

Better to find out now than after you buy the wrong twist, right

[chrispy88]

Yeah for sure! Cheers!

[bigfellascott]

A mate and I were out today shooting gongs at 750 to 1000yds with a Howa 308, it was great fun. It's funny watching the gong swing after the shot and about 5 sec later you hear the ding!

750yrd gong


1000yrd gong


Amazing what another 250yrd will do to ya groups! she was a real challenge getting em on target and as soon as we finally got it where we wanted it it started to get real windy then rain

[scrolllock]

The 500m plate at Little River is a bit of fun.

You can't hear it, but you know you know you hit it when you see the bullet fragments kick up the dirt all round it

[chrispy88]

That looks like too much fun! Picked up a scope for the 223 today, got on to a second hand but as new Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 and DNZ one piece mount at the right price. Slowly getting closer...

[creet]

Nice Chrispy

[Zilla]

Slowly getting closer...

It'll be worth it

[Gwion]

According to a post on another site from someone who contacted the Howa importers about the 223rem twist rate, serial numbers from B312235 onwards are 1-9" twist.

There will be some old stock so you may need to specify an order.

I've got the DNZ GameReaper mounts on my Howa 223rem Heavy Barrel. They work very well, you should be happy.

The rifle was set up with similar purposes to yourself but i found that the 24" heavy barrel was too cumbersome in the field so had 6" taken off the end. Made an amazing difference to weight and pointability of the rifle. Still not light but manageable to carry around and even shoot off hand.

It is also a 1:12 and shoots 40gn acceptably and 50-55gn quite well indeed. Haven't tried any heavier.

If you question accuracy of a shorter barrel i'll post a pic of the first test run for recent load development. You might get the barrel lopped when it's in getting bedded and the trigger done. Might cost $100. Just an option to consider for making the rifle manageable in the field,on foot.

Cheers

This group shot @ 100m on a windy day. The wind is very changeable at my place as it bounces around a hollow. This was only the second test round for a new load development.

BM8208-test-02.jpg (153.05 KiB) Viewed 6842 times

[NukeBOMB88]

Damn the serial on my Howa is b315837 , I wish I'd waited a bit longer to buy it and got the 1-9" twist

[chrispy88]

Ok great, thanks. I will make sure when I order. Should be able to get up to the big smoke Thursday to order her.

Hadn't even thought of getting the barrel lopped. Was going to get fluted to reduce weight, I take it this will stop me lopping it though?

[Tiiger]

Hadn't even thought of getting the barrel lopped. Was going to get fluted to reduce weight, I take it this will stop me lopping it though?

Normally when they add flutes they'll do the the length of the barrel but leave an inch of unfluted barrel at the muzzle. I hadn't thought about it before but I guess the fluted section is arguable weaker when not supported on both sides, if you get what I mean. Without having the full-thickness cap on the end of the fluting.

Honestly though that's a bit of a guess and I could be wrong. I've just never see a barrel fluted to the end without an untouched section so I'm assuming there is an argument made that it shouldn't be done. Would pay to speak to a smith who does the work and why/if they don't do it that way.

I'd give some thought to shortening it first and see how likely you are to go down that road with it. Shorten first, flute second would be ideal if you expect to do both.

[Mich]

This is probably becoming more trouble that it's worth, but FYI.

Depending on the depth/length of the flutes, if you did flute it first with keeping a length of full thickness at the muzzle end then wanted to shorten it without going into the fluting, you could possibly reverse the barrel, thread the former muzzle end of the barrel for the action, and shorten the former-action end of it where it wasn't fluted.

Only possible with a bull barrel and completely dependant on the particulars of the barrel, maybe not even possible in this instance, but I've seen it done.

[Korkt]

I hadn't thought about it before but I guess the fluted section is arguable weaker when not supported on both sides, if you get what I mean. Without having the full-thickness cap on the end of the fluting.

Honestly though that's a bit of a guess and I could be wrong. I've just never see a barrel fluted to the end without an untouched section so I'm assuming there is an argument made that it shouldn't be done. Would pay to speak to a smith who does the work and why/if they don't do it that way.

It's been done. I'm not a gunsmith, haven't done it, haven't test the effect on the muzzle etc. myself. But it's been done.

With a bull barrel my guess is there is no problem at all. The thinnest section of the barrel where fluted would likely be thicker than another of the same rifle with a sporter profile barrel anyway.

[chrispy88]

I ordered the barrelled action Thursday night. Turns out they don't do the fluted barrel in stainless so I just went with stainless bull barrel n might lop a little off the end.

Also buying a Boyd's stock from Die Judicii on here for it so getting close now. Just waiting for the PTA to come back. Pics soon!

[Wes]

Just waiting for the PTA to come back. Pics soon!

Progress