M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

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M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 12 Jul 2015, 3:29 pm

Ok so at first I thought it was just me but I'm finding that every load I try will not group the best I have done is about 1" at 100 with factory federal Speer 52gr HP. But is normally around the 2" mark worst is superformance shooting 6"+ groups and I've been hand loading some vmax between 33-37gr of 2208 or BM2 with no luck any ideas is my rifle a dud?
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Oldbloke » 12 Jul 2015, 3:58 pm

The rifle is capable of shooting ok. 1" is not bad. What weight projectiles are you loading? The twist rate may not be suitable for the weight u are leading. 2208 is very versitile, should be ok.

Do u weigh each charge?
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 12 Jul 2015, 4:15 pm

Yes I'm weighing Each Charge individually on a lee balance scale. Using 50gr Vmax to reload I have a 1-14 twist I might try to get some other projectiles. I'm starting to think it's the rifle either very sensitive to load and or bullet weight type etc or just a bucket of snot. I reload for my .308 and get groups around .5 - 1 MOA. And 1-2moa with all factory rounds
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Gwion » 12 Jul 2015, 5:30 pm

How many of the federal did you fire? You'd need to shoot quite a few groups to be sure it wasn't just fluke that they shot better. Working out averages is a numbers game.

I'd be looking at the bedding to see if there are any obvious hang up points (will probably look shiny on both stock and action/barrel). Check action screws for being nice a 'snug' or actually torque them to a specific rating.

May not be any of those things, as you had one round that shot ok. Maybe it is just fussy.

Also, get a texta and mark the bearing surface of the bolt lugs. Work the bolt a few times and see if there is even and positive contact. If only a little colour wears off, then maybe the action/bolt needs a little lovin' from a decent smith to true it up. Also, how does the crown look?

Hope you get it sorted. Good luck.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 12 Jul 2015, 5:45 pm

The Stock is bedded on the recoil lugs around the action screws and the barrel is free floated from the factory. FNH did a very nice job of them which is why I bought it I will check the bolt lugs and go from there hopefully it's just a fussy rifle and i will find a load that works I might try lighter pills but they aren't keyholeing so seems like They are stable. I did try the Feds quite a bit and at the moment are the only thing I can use in it to any degree of success hunting so they are my mainstay until I can work on something better.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Mule » 12 Jul 2015, 6:11 pm

Does the zero shift? My thought is barrel whip. Had similar issues with 303 sporter only to find out the barrel was not up to it.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Apollo » 12 Jul 2015, 6:35 pm

MF stick with one powder to test. AR2208 for a start and seat your bullets to maximum magazine length. Run a few loads at say 0.3gr increments up to 37.5gr and see how they group. Watch every case for any pressure signs as you approach maximum loads. Find the best most accurate group and shorten the seating length by say 0.010" at a time, then see if the groups tighten or get worse as you go shorter.

Then move onto Benchmark 2 and do the same tests. Maximum load should be 36.0gr.

If you find a better, more accurate load then fiddle with the power charge 0.1gr above or below.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 12 Jul 2015, 7:15 pm

Mule wrote:Does the zero shift? My thought is barrel whip. Had similar issues with 303 sporter only to find out the barrel was not up to it.

I did think about this except that it's a brand new rifle that should have been good to go. Yea I should try starting very low and working up which I have done with BM2 but no success. Anyhow you have all given me some pointers I will keep working with the rifle. Until I have completely decided that it's no good.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by brett1868 » 12 Jul 2015, 10:27 pm

Recently tried 30 different loads in a 300Win Mag and found only 2 that worked so possibly you're got a fussy rifle as well. Appllo's on the money for the right approach. Are the groups opening in any particular direction? Up / Down, Left / Right? Reason I ask is that I had issues with a rifle that had all sorts of elevation drift which turned out to be a hand tight but recoil loose rail. If you haven't double checked all the mounts then I'd look there, do you have access to a Lead Sled type bench rest? as it can take the shooter out of the equation when it comes to load development by providing a consistent recoil reaction.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 13 Jul 2015, 8:00 am

I mounted the scope and mounts myself I have talley "one peice" mounts and they are tight. Also all the action screws are tight. But I will definately buy some different projectiles and loads and see how I go. I believe I just have a fussy rifle as Hornady superformance ammo groups might hit a cow at 100 yet federal speers hps group much better but not varmint worthy.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Wes » 13 Jul 2015, 2:32 pm

MalleeFarmer wrote:Ok so at first I thought it was just me but I'm finding that every load I try will not group the best I have done is about 1" at 100 with factory federal Speer 52gr HP.


Just to definitively rule it out, have you actually had anyone else shoot it and see how they group?

Not suggesting otherwise but you know... Just ticking all the boxes...
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Strikey » 13 Jul 2015, 7:18 pm

I am assuming it has a light weight barrel, how many shots are you firing whilst testing loads and are you allowing that barrel to cool in between? I have one rifle with a light barrel and have learnt that 3 shot groups give me more useful results than the traditional 5 shot. Are you shooting from a bench with front & rear support, on a bipod, leaning across the bonnet of the ute? There could be a lot of other variables causing problems. ;)
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 13 Jul 2015, 7:52 pm

Wes wrote:
MalleeFarmer wrote:Ok so at first I thought it was just me but I'm finding that every load I try will not group the best I have done is about 1" at 100 with factory federal Speer 52gr HP.


Just to definitively rule it out, have you actually had anyone else shoot it and see how they group?

Not suggesting otherwise but you know... Just ticking all the boxes...


No wes I haven't but I have been using my .308 and shooting .5moa Groups with that so I'm assuming it's not me. But I probably should still get someone to just in case.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 13 Jul 2015, 7:58 pm

Strikey wrote:I am assuming it has a light weight barrel, how many shots are you firing whilst testing loads and are you allowing that barrel to cool in between? I have one rifle with a light barrel and have learnt that 3 shot groups give me more useful results than the traditional 5 shot. Are you shooting from a bench with front & rear support, on a bipod, leaning across the bonnet of the ute? There could be a lot of other variables causing problems. ;)


Yea been using a front rest off a bench and only firing 3 shots as the .22-250 does heat up the featherweight barrel quite a bit. It could well be me but I'm pretty sure It's not as I am doing much better (.5moa) with my .308
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Chronos » 13 Jul 2015, 8:09 pm

I can't see if you say how many rounds the rifle has fired? Is it new or did you buy it second hand?

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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 16 Jul 2015, 11:06 am

New rifle
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Wobble » 16 Jul 2015, 12:07 pm

MalleeFarmer wrote:No wes I haven't but I have been using my .308 and shooting .5moa Groups with that so I'm assuming it's not me.


If you can shoot a .308 better than the 22-250 than I'd also say it's not you. Less recoil, less likely to flinch and pull the shot blah blah blah.

Have you tried lighter pills at all? Generally speaking I would think 1:14 could be borderline for stabilising a 50gr pill, depending on it's profile.

You could try the 40gr V-Max. At 22-250 velocities it will still blow your target out of the water (figuratively speaking) and might be easier to get better accuracy out of.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by tom604 » 16 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

you have probably tried all this but, pop it out of the stock (after running a bit of paper down it to check that its free floating) and have a look to see if its touching where it shouldn't and check that the screws are not screwing in too much, the bedding is nice and smooth and is doing its job, if you even think that its touching in the stock give it a light sand (dont go crazy) or put a bit of white board marker on it and have another look, go out and buy/beg or borrow a range of factory ammo,different weight's ect and try them,front and rear bags so no wobble, nice day(no wind) and last but not least make sure its clean,take a rod and patches with you to the range :thumbsup: and the really last thing..as the gun was new, did you clean it before firing it the first time ?
sorry for the long winded reply :thumbsup:
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 16 Jul 2015, 8:41 pm

tom604 wrote:you have probably tried all this but, pop it out of the stock (after running a bit of paper down it to check that its free floating) and have a look to see if its touching where it shouldn't and check that the screws are not screwing in too much, the bedding is nice and smooth and is doing its job, if you even think that its touching in the stock give it a light sand (dont go crazy) or put a bit of white board marker on it and have another look, go out and buy/beg or borrow a range of factory ammo,different weight's ect and try them,front and rear bags so no wobble, nice day(no wind) and last but not least make sure its clean,take a rod and patches with you to the range :thumbsup: and the really last thing..as the gun was new, did you clean it before firing it the first time ?
sorry for the long winded reply :thumbsup:

Cheers Tom I definately cleaned it before first firing it. And I ran a note between the barrel and stock and also checked Te bedding it is as firm and neat of a fit as I've seen. Though I think I may get a few different brands of factory ammo to try and get a good starting spot for a hand load.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Mick280 » 18 Jul 2015, 10:40 am

I bought my M 70 Featherweight in .308 brand new and had exactly the same issues with it's groupings.
Two boxes of 150g factory for break in and sighting in,Sprayed them all over the place ( No better than about 3.5 - 4" groups)
Two full ladder tests later using 150gn Nosler B/Tips and ADI 2208,The results were no better.
Took the rifle of to my gunsmith and this is what he found!!
Bedding job was so tight,The action had to be levered out of the stock.
Rear action screw hole in the stock was bored out of line.
Finish on the crown was very ordinary.
The action was so bound up in the stock,It couldn't shoot.
A realignment of the action screw holes,Pillar bedding job and the crown tidied up and it will now shoot half inch at 100 all day.
Pretty ordinary for a new rifle though,And I do love my Winchesters!!!
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Jul 2015, 11:48 am

Oldbloke wrote:The rifle is capable of shooting ok. 1" is not bad. What weight projectiles are you loading? The twist rate may not be suitable for the weight u are leading. 2208 is very versitile, should be ok.

Do u weigh each charge?


See above again & mick280 comments.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 18 Jul 2015, 5:36 pm

Mick280 wrote:I bought my M 70 Featherweight in .308 brand new and had exactly the same issues with it's groupings.
Two boxes of 150g factory for break in and sighting in,Sprayed them all over the place ( No better than about 3.5 - 4" groups)
Two full ladder tests later using 150gn Nosler B/Tips and ADI 2208,The results were no better.
Took the rifle of to my gunsmith and this is what he found!!
Bedding job was so tight,The action had to be levered out of the stock.
Rear action screw hole in the stock was bored out of line.
Finish on the crown was very ordinary.
The action was so bound up in the stock,It couldn't shoot.
A realignment of the action screw holes,Pillar bedding job and the crown tidied up and it will now shoot half inch at 100 all day.
Pretty ordinary for a new rifle though,And I do love my Winchesters!!!
Mick

Mick. This is all very familiar my rifle also was extremely tight in the stock at first I almost thought they were glued together. Also since reading your post I had a thorough look at my crown and it seems to be ok but I'm no expert I'm picking up another rifle from my gunsmith in the next few weeks I might take it up to him and let him have a squiz.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by newsteadvic » 18 Jul 2015, 5:55 pm

Seems like a real shame two of you have had difficulty with the new M70's. They are not cheap (in price anyway). I have a 1980's m70 Featherweight in 243 and it is very accurate, particularly with heavier projectiles 95-100grains.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Oldbloke » 18 Jul 2015, 9:47 pm

Cant be much wrong, you did get some 1" groups. My $500 223 marlin will do 3/4" groups.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Gwion » 19 Jul 2015, 11:07 am

Definitely sounds like the bedding is binding and not allowing free battery. This would explain the very specific harmonics. The action is hanging up to a slightly different point in the bedding with each shot.

It needs re-bedding. Good idea to ask your smith.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Mick280 » 19 Jul 2015, 11:46 am

Definitely worth a look!!!
I have a few mates who have M70 Supergrades and have had no similar issues.
May be just a Featherweight thing.
The work cost me about 180 - 200 bucks from memory,with the result being a beautiful little hunting rifle that I can't see myself parting with!!!
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by MalleeFarmer » 20 Jul 2015, 8:30 am

It is very dissapointing especially since it's not a cheap rifle. The action is as smooth as any factory action I've used and I'm sure it will only get better. It's also a very Pretty rifle. Hopefully my smith can give me an idea on what is wrong. And fix it.
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Herdsman » 20 Jul 2015, 11:53 am

Mick280 wrote:A realignment of the action screw holes,Pillar bedding job and the crown tidied up and it will now shoot half inch at 100 all day.
Pretty ordinary for a new rifle though,And I do love my Winchesters!!!


I guess that wasn't done under warranty for you right?
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Mick280 » 20 Jul 2015, 12:56 pm

No mate,it wasn't sorted out under warranty!!
To tell you the truth,I couldn't be bothered stuffing around with it.
Add in the fact that I had put 50 odd rounds of non-factory ammo through it,If push come to shove,This would void the warranty in any case.
Had complete confidence my man could sort it out,He did and I had my rifle back within 3 days!!
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Re: M70 featherweight .22-250 won't shoot under 2" group

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Jul 2015, 6:58 pm

If the bedding is that bad, sounds like warrenty to me. Perhaps ph the vic consumer affairs? Could write a letter to winchester stating u do not believe it is up to the quality standards you expected. The consumer act states goods need to be up to a feasonable standard. Perhaps worth a try if u are up for about $200 to have the bedding rectified.
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