I want a bigger bang...

[Baronvonrort]

As the title says I'm yearning for a bigger calibre up from my .223.

There's the option of a .308, classic calibre, good enough for most animals as long as it's not buffalo or camel.

Considering 6.5 Creedmoor, apparently it's a .308 but better.

Also 7mm-08, .243, the list goes on....

I just would like a rifle between the .223 and the 300 Win Mag which I must get in the future just because I can, lol!

I don't know why anyone bothers with a .308 these days there are better out there for accuracy and power with less recoil.

I would go the 7mm-08 it has much better BC for projectiles of similar weight over the .308, since you don't have a 300win mag yet I would go 7mm rem mag so you can use the same 7mm projectiles.
I reckon the 7mm rem mag is better than 300 win mag due to better BC of projectiles.

If you go the .308 you can use the same projectiles in 300 win mag.

[Oldbloke]

7mm rem mag has a fairly sharp kick to it

[aaronjo]

300WM is loud....

Didn't get a chance to fire it but damn I could feel the shockwave, esp with the muzzle break.

[brett1868]

I would go the 7mm-08 it has much better BC for projectiles of similar weight over the .308, since you don't have a 300win mag yet I would go 7mm rem mag so you can use the same 7mm projectiles.
I reckon the 7mm rem mag is better than 300 win mag due to better BC of projectiles

Not quite right, true the BC of the 7mm projectile is better than the 308 but the 308 can usually be driven faster. I ran the below 2 loads through Applied Ballistics using velocity data from ADI and Berger projectiles as they use the more accurate G7 BC.

7mm, 168Gr Berger Match VLD Hunting G7 BC of .316 @ 2486 FPS 1:9.5 Twist (Load data based on ADI manual for 168Gr SMK 37.1Gr BM8208)
30Cal, 168Gr Berger Match VLD Hunting G7 BC of .242 @ 2707 FPS 1:12 Twist (Load data based on ADI manual for 168Gr SMK 43.3Gr BM8208)

200m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 2.37moa - Energy 1791 ft-lb T.O.F .28sec
.308 1.98moa - Energy 983 ft-lb T.O.F .26sec

400m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 9.37moa - Energy 1370 ft-lb T.O.F .60sec
.308 8.28moa - Energy 1405 ft-lb T.O.F .57sec

600m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 18.28moa - Energy 1028 ft-lb T.O.F .97sec
.308 16.83moa - Energy 963 ft-lb T.O.F .94sec

At all distances the 308 had slightly less drop and the edge on energy out to 400m but the 7mm-08 retains more energy out past 400m due to it's better B.C. Important to keep in mind that a 168Gr projectile may not be the best performer in either calibre, I used it because the 7mm-08 load data tops out at 175gr projectiles and 208Gr for the .308 and 168Gr is reasonably easy to find. The math shows that performance is very similar between the 2 rounds to the point of insignificance till you want to shoot past 400m. The ballistic differences / drops / energy remain fairly consistent across a few other loads I checked for same weight projectiles. I possibly should have scaled the projectiles for a fairer comparison, as in a 155Gr 7mm Vrs 168Gr 308 but it's late and I need to get up early. If I was going to choose between the 2 I'd probably sway towards the 7mm-08 for a couple reasons. First up is that performance is comparable to the .308 and secondly it does it with 6.2Gr less powder. I've had a 300WM and sold it, I have a .308 and rarely shoot it cause when it comes to the 30cal stuff I love my MkV Weatherby Accumark S/S in 300Wby Mag. I believe it has a slight edge on the 300WM, it's different and I prefer to be the Sheppard and not the sheep.

[sandgroperbill]

Imho most the calibres being discussed are capable as far as application goes. If you want some "wow" performance the 300RUM is impressive but a barrel burner. On the downside I've heard that WAPOL will reject .300RUM out of hand and you may have to argue it at the tribunal (though I'm not 100% sure on that).

If you're decided on .300wm, go for it, but see if you can shoot a couple first, as not everyone is comfortable with the recoil (but this varies between rifles).

Keep in mind that you would have to justify it to WAPOL if you have another similar caliber, and they're known for being difficult.

Between .223 and .300wm, you have most bases covered. So my reccomendations would perhaps be 6.5 creedmoor, .204 ruger or a .338 (not lapua, wapol pee themselves if you try to register a .338 lapua).

If you want fun, you could also consider a .303. Mad minute is a fun (and expensive) challenge. Also, with .303, you can still justify a similar caliber later.

[brett1868]

I priced up a 12Ga Browning I think it was with the rifled barrel for shooting slugs, was looking good till I factored in ammo. Buying the 12Ga slugs for it worked out to cost more then I pay to shoot 50BMG so I shelved the idea. 20" Mossburg Thunder Ranch U/O with Federal slugs is awesome fun and cheaper then a rifled 12Ga to buy and feed.

[aaronjo]

This is almost turning into a "what caliber should Aaron choose to punish his shoulder" thread, almost, lol!

Let's simplify things. I want another rifle (don't we all) and in a bigger caliber. I am falling in love with firearms and like Pokemon, I want to collect them all.

Ignore my obsession with the 300WM and lets say I wanted a rifle for bigger game that my 223 cannot handle. What would be recommended as the next caliber up?

[brett1868]

.243

[Oldbloke]

See my earlier post

[sandgroperbill]

CZ550 chambered for .600 overkill (yes, .600 overkill does exist).

If you want a small step up then .243, 6.5 creedmoor, swede or .260.

The choices are virtually endless, with only a few being mistakes.

Choose a rifle rather than a calibre

[Baronvonrort]

I would go the 7mm-08 it has much better BC for projectiles of similar weight over the .308, since you don't have a 300win mag yet I would go 7mm rem mag so you can use the same 7mm projectiles.
I reckon the 7mm rem mag is better than 300 win mag due to better BC of projectiles

Not quite right, true the BC of the 7mm projectile is better than the 308 but the 308 can usually be driven faster. I ran the below 2 loads through Applied Ballistics using velocity data from ADI and Berger projectiles as they use the more accurate G7 BC.

7mm, 168Gr Berger Match VLD Hunting G7 BC of .316 @ 2486 FPS 1:9.5 Twist (Load data based on ADI manual for 168Gr SMK 37.1Gr BM8208)
30Cal, 168Gr Berger Match VLD Hunting G7 BC of .242 @ 2707 FPS 1:12 Twist (Load data based on ADI manual for 168Gr SMK 43.3Gr BM8208)

200m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 2.37moa - Energy 1791 ft-lb T.O.F .28sec
.308 1.98moa - Energy 983 ft-lb T.O.F .26sec

400m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 9.37moa - Energy 1370 ft-lb T.O.F .60sec
.308 8.28moa - Energy 1405 ft-lb T.O.F .57sec

600m Drop / Energy
7mm-08 18.28moa - Energy 1028 ft-lb T.O.F .97sec
.308 16.83moa - Energy 963 ft-lb T.O.F .94sec

At all distances the 308 had slightly less drop and the edge on energy out to 400m but the 7mm-08 retains more energy out past 400m due to it's better B.C. Important to keep in mind that a 168Gr projectile may not be the best performer in either calibre, I used it because the 7mm-08 load data tops out at 175gr projectiles and 208Gr for the .308 and 168Gr is reasonably easy to find. The math shows that performance is very similar between the 2 rounds to the point of insignificance till you want to shoot past 400m. The ballistic differences / drops / energy remain fairly consistent across a few other loads I checked for same weight projectiles. I possibly should have scaled the projectiles for a fairer comparison, as in a 155Gr 7mm Vrs 168Gr 308 but it's late and I need to get up early. If I was going to choose between the 2 I'd probably sway towards the 7mm-08 for a couple reasons. First up is that performance is comparable to the .308 and secondly it does it with 6.2Gr less powder.

I reckon the 168 berger is more suited to the 7mm Rem mag over the 7mm-08, for me 120 -150gr works best in my 7mm-08

7mm-08 Nosler 120 gr -BC .417
.308 vmax 110 gr - BC .290
7mm-08 vmax 120 gr BC .365
I am pushing the 120 gr Noslers at 3100 fps,Hornady factory ammo pushes 110 gr .308 at 3165 fps.

Hornady's 139 gr SST factory ammo outperforms your .308 and 7mm-08 168 berger figures,they advertise 2950 fps with a BC of .486
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/bal ... istics.pdf

I also use 150 gr Nosler Accubond LR with a BC of .611 at 2750 fps with 2209.

There are a number of reasons why I would go 7mm-08 over a .308.

[Baronvonrort]

This is almost turning into a "what caliber should Aaron choose to punish his shoulder" thread, almost, lol!

Ignore my obsession with the 300WM and lets say I wanted a rifle for bigger game that my 223 cannot handle. What would be recommended as the next caliber up?

Since you have a .223 I would go the 7mm-08.

I am starting to think a .243 is the best first centrefire, it can take more species and saves any urgency to get something bigger,if you start with a .223 you will be getting something bigger it's not a case of if but when.

[sandgroperbill]

Disagree. .223 is an awesome little caliber and relatively cheap and easy to find factory ammo for. .243 will still have you wanting more gun later on. Having said that, if you were recoil shy and only wanted one centrefire, then .243 would be a definite contender

[Chronos]

i'll post a few thoughts here rather than quote bretts excellent post on the 7-08 v .308 comparo

when you look at those numbers it's true to say the .308 will have more energy at close ranges but the 7-08 was designed to do one thing, deliver more energy than the .308 at 500m. infact it will do it with a lighter bullet, important not for a hunter but for a target shooter who is required to fire 40 rounds in a morning match, 80 rounds in a state level open match and 120 rounds if you shoot both hunter class and open silhouette classes


brett your ADI data is a fair whack away from the velocitied i was getting with 168gr sierra's and 2208 let alone 2209 which will get better velocities in a 24" barrel. if you's like to run the same load again using 2560fps you may get a better profile but i used to shoot with blokes getting closer to 2650 with 168's and 162 amax's

FYI when i switched from .308 to my 7-08 I was dialing 5" less drop from my 200m zero than my .308 load was (168gr SMK in both guns for rams at 500m)

Chronos




the cartridge excels with the 120-140gr range of bullets delivering good energy and wind drift past 300m

[brett1868]

Only had the ADI data to go off for the 7mm-08 so used it for both just to have an even playing field. I rarely shoot 30cal anymore as I've finished all my load development and the 22-250 or 257Wby Mag kill everything I currently hunt up close while the Cheytac has taken giant bunnies out past what's considered ethical. It's more about best calibre for the job I guess, and between those 2 choices I'd probably go the 7mm-08 due to lower recoil and less powder. Best advice so far I think was to choose the rifle first for fit and features then worry about the choice of calibre. I've certainly been guilty of walking into the gunshop, looking on the shelf, spotting something shiny and pretty, buying it then worrying about the calibre afterwards. That's how I wound up with the Sako 85 Laminated S/S .204 and I've never regretted that purchase. Rifles are a bit like women, I'm attracted to how they look, fall in lust and worry about the cost, maintenance and nagging later

[Strikey]

I agree with Chronos, those ADI figures are probably a little conservative as most silhouette shooters using a 7-08 ( which is still the benchmark calibre for that game ) will be loading their 162-168grn projectiles using AR 2209 for over 2600fps to guarantee knockdowns but this is going away from the OP's question of which calibre to choose to fit in between his .223 and in the future 300WM. I reckon a 25-06 might fit better than a .243 or a .257 Roberts for something slightly milder but can be reloaded to nearly equal the 25-06, then for something different maybe the 250-3000 or my personal favourite its Ackley Improved brother, sorry but I am a .25cal fan If the rifle is to be used mainly for target shooting then you can't go past a 6BR, buy a cheap action, have a barrel screwed in and happy days, easy to reload for accuracy with ballistics not far behind the .243 but who cares about velocity when you are making one hole groups

[Heckler303]

So much discussion over what Calibre he should use still. I'll voice my opinion again.


For a lot of cases, the venerable 'ol .308 is still a really good choice, its everywhere, its 30 cal, its very accurate, it'll take down buffalo if you put it in the usual spots as per the norm when hunting AND military 7.62/51 will fit it, which you would want in case all hell breaks loose.


Also, it has a good BANG to it

[Strikey]

Heckler, have you shot a lot of buffalo with your .308 down there in Tassie?

[aaronjo]

And the battle rages on!

On a side note, not bad for cheap factory ammo. Winny 55gr bulk pack. 100m.

That'll do me...

4 shots in 2 holes.

[Strikey]

All I can see is a whole lot of white paper with half a finger/thumb nail on it

[Title_II]

Just get a .50 BMG rifle and be done with it. You know you want to

All I can see is a whole lot of white paper with half a finger/thumb nail on it

Group is so tight the hole closed!

[Heckler303]

Heckler, have you shot a lot of buffalo with your .308 down there in Tassie?

I zipped my maths teacher in the arse with a pen gun, does that count?

[aaronjo]

After deciding on the caliber, then it's the rifle, then which scope....

This is just the first stage of selection criteria for a all round, relatively lightweight carry around hunting rifle.

The .223 Tikka Varmint is great for shooting outta a car or on a bonnet but I'm not gonna be walking all day with that...

[sandgroperbill]

So you want something light...

First question I would be asking is how recoil sensitive are you?

Tikka t3, weatherby vanguard/howa 1500 in synthetic or ruger american in .243? Don't get too close to .30cal or it may make it difficult to get your .300wm later on.

But, I go back to my earlier suggestion. Go choose a rifle first. There are a lot of calibres out there that are near enough as makes no difference in terms of hunting applications. Find something nice and light that balances well, fits your shoulder nicely and feels right. This is more important than calibre when it comes to hunting

[Baronvonrort]

After deciding on the caliber, then it's the rifle, then which scope....

This is just the first stage of selection criteria for a all round, relatively lightweight carry around hunting rifle.

Have you decided on calibre let alone rifle or scope...lol.

Nothing wrong with a heavier rifle, it will build up arms shoulders and back carrying it around.

[aaronjo]

Current plan is possibly a Sako A7 synthetic stainless in 7mm-08 with a VX3 or Zeiss Conquest.

Heading to the shop this coming week.

Always subject to change when I get there, lol!

[bigtone]

Lucky you don't live in Queensland where everything bigger than 338 lap is not banned but you just can't have one. Get a 50BMG just because you can. And it makes Queenslanders sad too which might be a bonus too!

[sandgroperbill]

He's in wa. 50bmg is banned and .338 is effectively banned. It is possible but you have to take it to the administrative appeals tribunal. Also, because of this, nobody stocks .338 lapua ammo.

[Broom]

I am starting to think a .243 is the best first centrefire, it can take more species and saves any urgency to get something bigger,if you start with a .223 you will be getting something bigger it's not a case of if but when.

Only hindered by the fact it's not legal for the larger deer species in a lot of places.

If it was I reckon a .243 with 90gr or 95gr pills would be the all round go-to for a lot of shooters.

[Baronvonrort]

Only had the ADI data to go off for the 7mm-08 so used it for both just to have an even playing field.
between those 2 choices I'd probably go the 7mm-08 due to lower recoil and less powder.

Nosler have some pretty good data for what they sell,worth having a look if using their products.
www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/7mm-08-remington.

I didn't think less powder and lower recoil would be a factor for you