223 or 243 -- Your opinion?

[monbeg]

Duck into the local gun shop an get a couple of snapcaps, get used to holding steady and not anticipating the click.

[sandgroperbill]

Sorry, but I'm gonna disagree with JD here, not in theory, but more because of licensing in WA. I would hold onto the .308, at least for now and until we know if its the rifle, the caliber or more flinching in anticipation. It may just be something as simple as not shouldering the rifle just right. It may be solved with the addition of a butt pad. It may be that the rifle doesn't fit the OP, or it may be that the .308 just isn't right for the OP, but given licensing costs and issues in WA, I wouldn't be rushing out to trade in the .308 straight away.

If you have a range nearby, go for a visit. People will generally help to identify if it's your technique. Also, you may be able to try other rifles in various calibers, which could be extremely useful in finding the right way forward

[demanda]

Thanks for your posts everyone. It sounds like a .223 is a great choice based on the rifles I already have and my bad habits. Has anyone got any experience with the Ruger Hawkeye Laminate Compact rifle? 1:9 twist with a short overall length.

[sandgroperbill]

My advice is don't pick a rifle, let the rifle pick you.

Go in to all the gunships nearby, and ask to see everything they have in .223 1:8 or 1:9. Shoulder them, work the bolt while they're shouldered, feel how they fit against your cheek and shoulder, feel how they balance. You'll find that they will all feel different, even if only slightly, but you'll pick one up that feels just right, and a lot of the time you'll know that that is your rifle.

As for Rugers, they aren't target rifles, they're good reliable hunting rifles. If that is fine by you, then you'll find that they are good rifles. I own an American, not everybody's piece of cake, but to me its a tool and I'm quite happy with it, though I haven't owned an M77, so can't comment specifically on long term M77 ownership. Just be aware that the M77 uses proprietory rings.

[Strikey]

What about the new mini action Howa's, they could be worth having a look at? If you are only shooting thin skinned game such as dogs, cats, goats and such I would stay away from the faster twist rates and heavier projectiles in the .223 unless you are shooting them at extended ranges, you might find that the projectiles will pencil through without imparting all their energy, possibly leaving wounded animals, not a good outcome

[<<Genesis93>>]

My advice is don't pick a rifle, let the rifle pick you.

I picture a guy walking into the gunshop.... standing in front of the racks... closing the eyes and placing the index fingers to the sides of the temple.... occasionally opening an eye and peering out to see if a rifle is levitating closer....

I know what you mean......

but first things first OP,

FIX the flinch.

THEN think about another rifle, dont think about finding a soft rifle, dont be a girls blouse (no offence to the GBs)
Shoot the 308 and shoot a lot! it is after all a mid-range recoiling rifle... to test your flinch place a dummy round in the mag...mix it in there....

Just try not to anticipate the recoil... 'psychologise' yourself as you pull the trigger.

Once sorted go for a 223Rem, its the plinker of centrefires, but hard enough hitting at the same time (for reasonable sized game)... lots of fun.

Then, sure, go the 243, but you can also load light bullets in the 308....for what its worth.....

[Title_II]

My advice is don't pick a rifle, let the rifle pick you.

I picture a guy walking into the gunshop.... standing in front of the racks... closing the eyes and placing the index fingers to the sides of the temple.... occasionally opening an eye and peering out to see if a rifle is levitating closer....

Use The Fork, Luke. You weren't raised in a barnyard

[<<Genesis93>>]

Learn you will Padawan

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Once sorted go for a 223Rem, its the plinker of centrefires.

Them's fightin' ( definitive ) words Buster ....

Had me a plenty good time, plinkin' with the old Hornet.

( .223 just a tad noisy for my sensitive ears, to be a half decent challenger in the plinker galleries )

[GLS_1956]

[quote="sandgroperbill"]My advice is don't pick a rifle, let the rifle pick you.

Gee Mom, it followed me home. Can I keep it?

[sandgroperbill]

Ok ok. Point taken, but you know what I mean

And I wish a few rifles would follow me home. I'd give them a loving home and it would be a damn sight cheaper

[<<Genesis93>>]

Granted the Hornet is an 'efficient' little round, its about the midway point between the LR and the Rem 1100fps/2200fps/3300fps.... couple with the inexpensive factory and even cheaper reloads, lack of recoil.... the Rem wins

..... having said that, there are some nice 22Hornet rifles available

on the 243 front....yeah, I see the merits, plus I have a cavernous calibre deficiency between the 22 and 30cal centrefires, will fill it one day with one or more of the 6 or 6.5mm offerings...

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Granted the Hornet is an 'efficient' little round, its about the midway point between the LR and the Rem 1100fps/2200fps/3300fps.... couple with the inexpensive factory and even cheaper reloads, lack of recoil.... the Rem wins

..... having said that, there are some nice 22Hornet rifles available

on the 243 front....yeah, I see the merits, plus I have a cavernous calibre deficiency between the 22 and 30cal centrefires, will fill it one day with one or more of the 6 or 6.5mm offerings...

As compared to the Hornet ?

Am I reading you right ?

[MR. WINCHESTER]

.... is almost hilarious, that everytime the topic of .223 / .243 rears its head, the pages fill quickly.

[<<Genesis93>>]

yeah it is funny.... almost as good as the 7mm is better than 30cal.. thats good for about 9 pages worth The trajectory.... 1.68mm less drop at 500m, 7mm wins

but yes, you read as written, the 223Rem is 'cheap' to run. On a good day you'll pick up factory rounds on the lower end of the 10 to 20 a box.....lot closer to the lower end.

Speaking more in generality though.... obviously less recoil with the Hornet, but at those levels the recoil is kind of irrelevant.

[NuZo]

It sounds like you want it for pest control/culling work. Get the 223. The barrel will last longer and ammo is cheaper to shoot. It's plenty accurate enough for longer shots.

use the 308 on the bigger stuff.

243 will cover everything though, just make sure you get the correct barrel twist rate for the weight of projectile you want to use.

Cheers,

Nuzo

P.S. I am biased towards 223 cause I like them. That's all.

[Gibbo]

Hi, I have a similar dilemma at the moment. I hunt mainly foxes with a .22 and 22 magnum but looking to get into some deer hunting. I have a Rem700 308 that I have used solely for target shooting but don't have time for that anymore and prefer to get out and explore the countryside.

Plan is to sell the 308 and scope and get me a nice hunting rifle. From my experience with target/tactical shooting I have spent a fair bit of time looking into the ballistics of the .260 Rem and even though the barrel life is considerably less than the .223 I think it has clear advantages as a multi purpose hunting rifle and meets my needs.

SAKO's beautiful 85 Varmint Blued Walnut comes in .260 with the 8 twist... if only they weren't bloody $2300! I sold a 223 8 twist SAKO Walnut Stainless to fund a fancy scope for my 308... worst decision I ever made!

[Oldbloke]

Gibbo, did you notice this?
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5340

[sandgroperbill]

And pay the extra for the boyds stock...

But are you set on getting rid of the .308?

The .223 is a good caliber, but will limit you to the smaller stuff, but a .223 and .308 covers virtually everything

[<<Genesis93>>]

In Vic you'll need to keep the 308win for the deer, at least the most common variety... 260Rem is a no go except for some smaller deer

But I see why you want to get rid of it.... its a Rem

[dugachelli]

Be like me......223 .243 .308.....get them all...awesome

[Oldbloke]

"The .223 is a good caliber, but will limit you to the smaller stuff, but a .223 and .308 covers virtually everything"
That pretty much says it all.

[la101]

I absolutely love my tikka t3 in 223. Its pin point accurate and has very manageable recoil. I have not shot or used a 243 so cant give a comparison but the 223 is a great round and would be the perfect way to tame any bad shooting habits you might have. as others have said, keep your 308 and spend some time with a 223 and you will learn to shoot them both well in the future.

[RDobber]

IMHO if you're getting a flinch from a .308 the .243 won't be much better

Agree that with heavy pills it will be similar.

Depends on the cause of the flinch with the lighter ones I guess.

55gr recoil is definitely less but the report is loud as hell (as you know).

[BradZ]

Scrolled through the whole thread to see if anyone mentioned a 22-250, it seems they haven't.

Just something to think about, its right in the middle of the 2 other cals so it is worth considering.

Recoil is basically non existent but they are f***ing loud. I imagine a .243 wouldn't be any better though, and with more recoil. 55gr pill doing 3700fps is enough to knock rabbits, foxes, roos and pigs if you do your part. Yes this is speaking from experience.

It was my first caliber, yes the noise of it is intimidating to someone needing a confidence boost but once behind the barrel it's a non issue.

Ps. My 55 year old mother gets behind my 250 no worries, I think you'll be fine

[Gibbo]

And pay the extra for the boyds stock...

But are you set on getting rid of the .308?

The .223 is a good caliber, but will limit you to the smaller stuff, but a .223 and .308 covers virtually everything

Yeah i have the AAC SD barreled action up for sale at the moment. Don't mind shooting steel but would much rather spend my time walking hunting and spotlighting these days.

[Gibbo]

In Vic you'll need to keep the 308win for the deer, at least the most common variety... 260Rem is a no go except for some smaller deer

But I see why you want to get rid of it.... its a Rem

Thanks i will take that into consideration. Starting to think I am better off with a 223 for spotlighting and a separate deer rifle, my mate just bought a Sako A7 in 270 which is nice. I am a bit old school and wouldn't mind a 30-30 lever with a peep sight, don't know if anyone has any experience hunting deer with one on here. Seems to have taken a few deer in it's time in the US. Ta

[Title_II]

.30-30 is a great weapon, but it is for woods. Really about 25-150 meters tops for most people, especially with a peep sight. I know it can be stretched but it's not intended for that.

[Gibbo]

.30-30 is a great weapon, but it is for woods. Really about 25-150 meters tops for most people, especially with a peep sight. I know it can be stretched but it's not intended for that.

Thanks, I am new to deer hunting so will need to check out with my mate what sort of ranges we are looking at. He has always been a bowhunter so hopefully we are looking at taking closer range shots. I have always wanted a nice lever action in either one of the pistol calibres or 30-30.

[Title_II]

They are really sweet, no doubt. You will love it.

For hunting, all the pics and video I see from you guys is open desert out to 20 km spotted with snakes and sharks. So I just wanted to point out the range.

They are very light, small and handy, almost no recoil, and blast the crap out of stuff within the design range. Just check up on the range.