303-25, Life brought back into it

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303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Heckler303 » 30 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm

So a while ago I posted a thread about 303-25 and 25-06 asking for some advice on both cartridges. Well just recently, the 303-25 Lee Enfield conversion arrived at the local dealer, so we picked it up and took it home.


When he opened the box, the outside condition with the stock wasn't at it's best, but on the inside it was still really sharp and had a lot of bluing left. No serial numbers matched up, aside from the magazine and the rifle, but with a bit of work, I think it'll turn into an excellent 25 cal fallow deer rifle.

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(get your leg out of the shot dad :roll: )


So we stripped it apart, and got the two stock pieces (the butt stock was an aftermarket replacement, and I couldn't tell what wood it's made from. It's a good stock tho, very little dents and scratches, just a crap varnish pasted over the top was the issue. Using some paint stripper, we took the finish off both pieces of timber and brought them back almost to the original finish, then sanded them back smooth after they bathed in hot water with handy-andy and bleach to remove grease, muck, grime and dents (the hot water really expanded the dents so it saved us getting the filler! :D )

After 3 days of work, I think it turned out rather smashing:

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Serial number

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You know what, it even came with a good scope!

Oh yeah, final details: It's got a 303-25 SPORTCO barrel, in very good nick, it's a No.4 mk 1 * Lee Enfield Made in 1943, the scope is a Olivon 6x40 and it has a modified magazine to properly accept the 303-25 wildcat cartridge. When I eventually get some ammo for it, I'll fire some test shots onto some paper, then upload pics of some groupings onto here. Thanks for reading.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by sandgroperbill » 30 Jan 2016, 3:05 pm

Nice work on the timber, heckler.

I'll be doing something similar to my model 12 once it has been licensed
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Heckler303 » 30 Jan 2016, 4:42 pm

Thanks sandgroper. It's 2 thin coats of good quality walnut stain lightened up with linseed oil, and it's now going to be given a coat round about every 1-2 days until it gets a real great sheen to it.


What's the current condition of your slazenger/lithgow model 12?
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Baldrick314 » 30 Jan 2016, 6:17 pm

Looking good Heckler!
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Heckler303 » 30 Jan 2016, 8:36 pm

Thanks for the kind words y'all

bentaz wrote:I've seen a few of these cheep online and i think i will have to add one to the collection sooner or later, i think finding the ammo is a bit tricky and dies are bloody expensive, which is whats stopped me getting one so far.
But there is a lot of our history tied up in these guns and in sporterised .303s, if these guns could talk, man they would have some tales to tell, from the trenches of to world wars to the struggles of life on the land, though depressions, droughts, floods n famines.
I often think they are an overlooked and under appreciated piece of our history.

Yours looks great and i hope it brings you many years of joy mate :drinks:



Before we took it down, I gave it a lookover with just my own eye around it to see how much use it really got, and it had plenty of scratches underneath where somebody has been resting it probably on the roof of a ute for professional kangaroo shooting, as they made great roo rifles when nobody could afford factory-made hunting rifle, but surplus was in huge stock. By the excellent conversion with the sportco 303-25 special barrel and mounting of the scope, I'd say that this done by someone who knew what they were doing and probably converted a few of them. Maybe another one done by the same person is floating around out there...

As for ammunition, I can understand how it's not commercially available as wildcats based off 303 died off in favor of others like the 25-06 (which I'll be picking up soon) because of the times, but I have a set of reloading dies for it, and I'll be picking up 20 unfired cases probably donkey's years old but they'll make great reloadables. One thing I plan on doing is using sub-sonic loads for small game, and jacking up a hotter round when deer season comes up in march. Ooooh boy, what fun at the reloading bench :lol:
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Seconds » 11 Feb 2016, 9:33 am

V nice restoration Heckler
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Xerox » 17 Feb 2016, 12:45 pm

Heckler303 wrote:the outside condition with the stock wasn't at it's best, but on the inside it was still really sharp and had a lot of bluing left.


I notice that a lot on second hand rifles. Slack cleaning I guess, people pass a brush down the barrel and neglect the outside of the rifle.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 17 Feb 2016, 11:11 pm

Nice restoration on the old girl. :clap:

A couple of tips...

Don't try the sub sonic thing with the calibre, it will only lead to heart ache and a possible wrecked gun.
If you want to load for little critters try anything from 60 gn project to 87 gn. From memory Speer do a H/P that is devastating on bigger critters
Most of the old factory ammo (Riverbrand, Sportco) was 87gn.
100 gn projectiles work well on the bigger stuff such as fallow, you can run up to 120 gn projectiles if you want a bit more wack.The ammo is non-existent, so welcome to reloading, the trick with necking down 303 virgin brass to 25 cal is a vice die, Simplex still make them, and most LGS's will have one somewhere......trust me, ive mucked about with the calibre of a long long time cause I just love it. If you use the vice die and them trim the case.... done deal. If you use a full length sizer to neck down or a neck die it will crush the shoulders back. I've always found the best brass to be Winchester, as its a bit softer than the Remington, PPU or any of the others.

Ive got some load data hidden away somewhere if you need it, but most of the decent reloading manuals still list the 303/25 with modern powders.

It will do just about anything you ask of it providing you don't push it to hard,

Enjoy

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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by happyhunter » 18 Feb 2016, 7:42 am

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Last edited by happyhunter on 24 Feb 2017, 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Varmtr » 18 Feb 2016, 12:35 pm

Rebel gun works stocks brand new S&B 303-25 brass around the $130 for 100 or try Bertram brass in Seymour in Vic. I have 100 pieces of Bertram 303-25 but will get some S&B for my 6.5 Epps project.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 18 Feb 2016, 4:36 pm

Am guessing the 303/25 in no way compares to the more modern 25/06 ?

( am not particularly a 'rifle guy' / am too lazy to look it up / would rather be told by passionate owners )
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Heckler303 » 18 Feb 2016, 5:30 pm

MR. WINCHESTER wrote:Am guessing the 303/25 in no way compares to the more modern 25/06 ?

( am not particularly a 'rifle guy' / am too lazy to look it up / would rather be told by passionate owners )



Actually, you'd be surprised to know both cartridges have similar ballistics, only difference being that the 25-06 has generally a higher velocity and less drop despite using the same projectile.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 19 Feb 2016, 11:05 pm

Have used both over the years, the 25/06 is a big boomer re noise level and funny enough the 303/25 is the opposite.
The 303/25 was way before its time, old mil ammo necked down, lousy brass, poor quality control re anything remotely new back then.
But hay,,,,it worked and worked well.

And if you your like me,,,,it was from an era where life and things associated with firearms were simple.... if that rifle could only talk..

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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Gregg » 01 Mar 2016, 10:46 am

Looks good mate :thumbsup:
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by gunnnie » 01 Mar 2016, 10:55 pm

Great cartridge for what it is. I own two, a SMLE No1 MkIII & the other a P14. Have reloaded for this cartridge for a number of years now.
First point: do not consider the 303-25 to be the ballistic equivalent of the 25-06. The only similarity is the calibre of the projectiles. There is a vast difference between the two.
Formed cases are available, but you will have to look hard for them. Last bag of 100 I got from the gunstore in Tamworth.
AV Ballistics also makes 303-25 ammo.

You're best off developing one load that your rifle shoots well & stick with that for all game. Suggest trying projectiles of 90-95gn over a mild load of AR2208. This will handle fallow deer & medium pigs with ease. Remember, your rifle is a 1943 rear locking Enfield, not a modern Mauser style bolt action. Pushing, "warmish" loads will lead to stretched cases rapidly followed by case head separations after only a few firings.

Good luck with it, you will enjoy it.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by GLS_1956 » 01 Mar 2016, 11:50 pm

Strikes me that you've got the "Quarter bore" box filled. I'd be willing to bet that nothing short of a chronograph would be able to tell the terminal differences between the 303/25 and a 25-06. I'm told that the SMLE action is not as strong as forward locking lug design, like a Mauser or most current turn bolts, but I've not noticed any problems with my No4Mk1 in the original 303.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Varmtr » 02 Mar 2016, 8:00 am

GLS the SMLE"s and even the No4's are not as strong as the P14's front locker Mauser copy design. Hence my 6.5 Epps which is a 303 necked down and Ackley Improved is being built on a P14 to get the full potential of it.

The No4's are a step up compared to the SMLE's but still if you start to push it you'll start running into case stretch problems and head seperation. That's why a lot of reloading manuals show loads mostly for No1 & 4's due to the design of the action and pressures it can handle.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Wm.Traynor » 02 Mar 2016, 10:06 am

The Main Problem with the Lee Enfield, was that the action stretched, shortening the life of reloaded cases.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by gunnnie » 02 Mar 2016, 12:41 pm

Agree with you re the SMLE. Have had them in 303-22Falcon & improved, 303-270 & 303-243 of all things! Currently have several 303's in No1 & 4, plus No 1 MkI & P14. Plus a 375NEf 2.5". So am certainly aware of the action strengths & weaknesses, as well as the reloading side.

Folks get hyped up over chasing speed, which is fine if that's what floats your boat, just don't do it with an SMLE or Enfield! It will only end badly.

With the 303-25 in one of these actions, you get a 10rd, fast cycling bolt rifle that will suit 90% of the hunting in this county. By using projectiles in the 90-100gn weight range you will take everything from rabbit to even red deer. Stalking skills & shot placement are the critical aspects of this, more so than the calibre/cartridge!

So, again, I say pick a projectile in that weight, develope an accurate load & concentrate on learning the range a drop of this load whilst improving ones accuracy with said rifle.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Heckler303 » 02 Mar 2016, 6:12 pm

Wow, a whole host of replies.


Also, yes I'm fully aware both the 303-25 and 25-06 have differences because they are two entirely different cases with different tapers and lengths. I have photos of the 25-06 M17 which currently is off at the gunsmith getting reamed because when a round was about to be chambered it refused to feed. So he's busy working on that, I've been trying to work on bringing up the absolutely junk sporterised stock that it came with. So I'll start a project thread on it sometime.

Also I'm currently using a load of 33 grains of AR2208 with 87grn soft tips for the 303-25.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by GLS_1956 » 03 Mar 2016, 12:56 am

Varmtr wrote:GLS the SMLE"s and even the No4's are not as strong as the P14's front locker Mauser copy design. Hence my 6.5 Epps which is a 303 necked down and Ackley Improved is being built on a P14 to get the full potential of it.

The No4's are a step up compared to the SMLE's but still if you start to push it you'll start running into case stretch problems and head seperation. That's why a lot of reloading manuals show loads mostly for No1 & 4's due to the design of the action and pressures it can handle.


I'm quite aware of the superior strengths of a Mauser style action over the Lee-Enfield's rear locking design. In addition to several commercial sporting rifles I have an M1917 Eddystone, a 30/06 version of the P14, a WWII vintage Smith-Corona made 1903-A3 also in 30/06, an M48 Yugoslav in 8mm, and a couple of Mosin-Nagants.

A little online searching indicates the 303-25 can safely match the performance neighborhood of the 250 Savage and that ain't a bad neighborhood to be in.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by gunnnie » 07 Mar 2016, 5:29 pm

Heckler303:

mate, if you're still chasing brass for your 303-25, go to FirearmSales.com.au and in the reloading components section page 2 you'll find a listing for 303-25 brass ($145/100).

Hope this sorts out what you're after to get the rifle up and running again.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by SamHuntVic » 09 Mar 2016, 2:05 pm

I did a similar job on my 303.25. A big sand down then seven coats of Tru Oil.
I think you had a better one to start with than mine though.
You can see the original military marks on the butt stock.
Mine's also got the Sportco .25 barrel.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Wes » 08 Jun 2016, 9:34 am

She's pretty too :D
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Bob 303/25 Epps » 13 Mar 2021, 1:35 pm

The 303/25 is a brilliant cartridge But the one I did is based on the Tipan, Epps and Newton cases.
Minimal taper, 35 degree shoulder angle and a .257 neck instead of the .311 long neck.
It holds 60 grains of 2213sc but you wouldnt use that amount unless you want a bolt in your forehead
With my Loads
a 115grain nosler combined technology silver tip I SAFELY get 3,300 fps but I have a 1 in 12 twist barrel. This is in a M17. My son's No4 SMLE will SAFELY do 3,200 fps with any 100 grain projectiles and 3,000 fps with 117 grain SSTs.

99% of the older conversions by sprinter have a 1 in 12 twist and will not stabilize anything over 100 grain
If any one wants any info on the Epps improved they are free to ask me any questions.
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Re: 303-25, Life brought back into it

Post by Ej45 » 16 Apr 2021, 8:54 pm

Hey Bob would love to hear more about that 25 improved especialy the SMLE. whats the case life like and what pressures would it be putting out?
any pics?

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