Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

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Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 22 Feb 2016, 11:59 am

So....... I'm not so excited about the Aussie made Steyr 'for the army' rifle thing...

I think its the wrong rifle, wrong chambering, and it should be made (whether under licence or not) preferably by an Australian Government entity or failing that - then by an actual 'Australian Company' where the technology/IP/profits remain in Australia.... but thats just my old fashioned foolish perhaps protectionist perhaps thinking... sorry.

The rifle our troops... as well as our militia (whats that?) carry should look kind of like this;

Image
But thats a discussion for another day..... :twisted:

However, the made in Australia part is a compromise, with the company with the contract/Lease?? of the Lithgow works being a French owned multi-national concern...yes, they employ Aussies.... yadda yadda....

So, OK, not Aussie owned but at least Aussie made???

Then I hear today that the Steyrs are only 'assembled' locally, made O/S? According to Katter in Parliament?
Is this correct, that they are only assembling (at Lithgow)???

FFS if this is correct, if/when the shipping lanes are closed... we couldnt even produce a rifle for our defence forces!!!
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by AusTac » 22 Feb 2016, 12:17 pm

I could swear at least the barrells for the f88 were made in lithy.. but then again maybe not nice rifle to shoot though, pretty ergonomic if you think thats bad, if ww3 started on a weekend the adf wouldn't be able to draw firearms out of the 'privatelly' run armourys that alot of firearms are kept in
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 22 Feb 2016, 12:26 pm

AusTac wrote:I could swear at least the barrells for the f88 were made in lithy.. but then again maybe not nice rifle to shoot though, pretty ergonomic if you think thats bad, if ww3 started on a weekend the adf wouldn't be able to draw firearms out of the 'privatelly' run armourys that alot of firearms are kept in


I understood the tubes were hammer forged in NSW too, however I recall something about barrels, 'black diamond' or somethingorother??? sounding like imported.... (couldnt find the link) maybe I'm confusing consumer end and govt contract...

As far as WW3 / SHTF..... it wouldnt surprise me if the Frenchies packed up in time and sent the gear home.... 'private' as in French private :) :thumbsdown:
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by Gwion » 22 Feb 2016, 12:36 pm

Having no autonomy for military defence arms production in a country so isolated is extremely short sighted and ill advised. Did they not read any historical examples before deciding to do this???
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by AusTac » 22 Feb 2016, 12:44 pm

As far as i know the black diamond brand is lithgow arms civillian barrel department, but its hard to get reliable info from them these days
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by Gwion » 22 Feb 2016, 12:51 pm

Black Mountain Barrels....
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 22 Feb 2016, 1:17 pm

Thats the one, Black Mountain, they say Aussie made.....if the internets says so, must be true, right??

Its a joke that not only do we not have a local industry, but our representative actively shut down the only local semi auto manufacturer..... (cant have the plebs with them murder guns now)
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by Gwion » 22 Feb 2016, 1:44 pm

Yep, Black Mountain Barrels are the old Sportco 44 barrel makers (i believe, could be mistaken). They are relaunching the barrel brand to offer after market barrels for the Lithgow CrossOver 102 centerfires.

Bastards aren't doing a 7mm, though; only .224, .243 & .30cal.

I don't remember the historical details, but there are examples of countries suffering large losses due to being at the mercy of their arms suppliers. Any intelligent country that takes it's own defence with any seriousness ensures it's own supply of arms.
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by Bills Shed » 22 Feb 2016, 4:43 pm

<<Genesis93>> wrote:So....... I'm not so excited about the Aussie made Steyr 'for the army' rifle thing...

I think its the wrong rifle, wrong chambering, and it should be made (whether under licence or not) preferably by an Australian Government entity or failing that - then by an actual 'Australian Company' where the technology/IP/profits remain in Australia.... but thats just my old fashioned foolish perhaps protectionist perhaps thinking... sorry.

The rifle our troops... as well as our militia (whats that?) carry should look kind of like this;

Image
But thats a discussion for another day..... :twisted:
!!!


I have used both the SLR L1A1(pictured) and the current issue F88. ( By the way that is the incorrect "issue" magazine for that rifle.) I have also spent many years maintaining them. The two are chalk and cheese. The F88 is well balanced, easy to point and carry, more accurate and targent acquisition faster. Maintenance is also easier. If you want to punch holes in trees and through walls then yes the 308 is superior but that is not the modern battle field.
Ref the, "not totally built in Aust", I do not know, but agree, that as we continue to move into a foggy future we need/ must have, our own manufacturing capability in all respects. I could think of nothing worst than being at the mercy of some other countries supply chain.
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 22 Feb 2016, 5:43 pm

Its not about punching holes in trees Bill.... If I was staking the defence of the nation on a rifle - I would leave the fox rifle in the safe......better/faster etc you say? I say train the troops to use the rifle!!!

Interesting the Turks recently returned to a 308win....not sure if on general issue yet... but when I last spoke to someone in the know, with their ear to the ground - apparently others also long for the return of the 30cal....

But yes Ben, we pay hundreds of millions, used to be 600m, reduced by the libs (one good thing theyve done) of protection money, nothin more nothing less... even train their troops... host their troops in the north, their air force, how stupid are we???
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by on_one_wheel » 22 Feb 2016, 7:31 pm

That's all a bit disappointing, I was excited to hear that Lithgow was making the F88, I'm sure I read Australian made somewhere.

Australian needs to focus on being completely self sufficient when it comes to our armed forces. Imagine relying on a foreign contract during a WW
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by happyhunter » 23 Feb 2016, 7:53 am

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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 23 Feb 2016, 7:56 am

Excerpt from Bob Katters statement in (Fed) House of Reps yesterday Mon, 22Feb;

It is a government that buys a Steyr rifle—we are the only country in the world buying Steyr rifles—it is actually made in Australia, but of course all the detailed fabrication is done in a foreign country.


I will add the full statement for context and that it should be read...(I happened to hear it live while driving).

I was aware of the China lit for our soldiers, Chinese made Aussie flags, but I was 'sure' the Steyr was as aussie as roos in the backyard.... apart of course from the design and licensing... :thumbsdown:

I wonder if a quick email to Mr Katter re the prohibited nature of importing Aussie flag (particularly those made in Commie countries!!) would be of value...
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 23 Feb 2016, 7:56 am

[[Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Amendment (Procuring Australian Goods and Services) Bill 2016]]

Mr KATTER (Kennedy) (10:22): I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

In raising this issue in the parliament, you wonder why people hate politicians. I do not know if people have noticed it, but in our home state of Queensland we change our Premier every 2.3 years, and we are getting close to that now in the federal parliament. It is a vote that people hate you; it is a vote that they do not like you. They will vote one mob out. They will just vote against whoever is there. The next mob will go in and they will vote against them. In Queensland, we had one change of government in 90 years. Clearly we liked what we were getting. The great labour movement dominated our state in those days. We owe so much to that great labour movement which swept out of Queensland and took over the running of Australia.

I have to mention in speaking to this bill my worthy colleague from Denison. In this place, the people have a voice. Those voices happen to be the few of us who are sitting here. The others are just silly, because they get up and say something, like the last speaker said we should be doing something about labelling. We have moved motions in the House again and again and we cannot get a single vote from anyone. In a survey of your electorate, 90 per cent of people want it, but people in this place do not serve the people; they serve a political party. Here is a classic example of it. The laughing stock of Australia is the government. A government that hands out Australian flags which are made in China. This is a government which has the boots of its soldiers made in China. It is a government that buys a Steyr rifle—we are the only country in the world buying Steyr rifles—it is actually made in Australia, but of course all the detailed fabrication is done in a foreign country.

What this bill will do, if we could get some people to break party lines and vote for the welfare of the Australian people, is that it creates—and let's be specific and talk about the submarines. I am told—I have read in the newspaper; we cannot get any information out of the government—that there are some 4,000 jobs involved in this operation. If we are getting light ships built—patrol boats—there is Cairns, there is Tasmania and there is Fremantle. They are all capable of doing the job at the present moment. But if government contracts do not go to them then they will lose the technology and the capacity to build anything.

This is an interesting period in Australian history, because in the last six months Australia has made its last motor car. In the last six months Australia has made its last washing machine. This country can no longer produce whitegoods—refrigerators, washing machines, stoves or whatever you like—and it can no longer produce a motor car. In the OECD countries, they have an 'elaborately transformed' column. But we really do not have a column any more, because we do not 'elaborately transform' anything! We moved out of the OECD countries into the Third World countries, that have no industrial capacity whatsoever!

If you produce the submarines in Australia, there is a great quote. It was in the context of the argument about whether Australia should make its own motorcars. This quote was from a huge argument in America over the Brooklyn Bridge. The chief protagonist, a senator from New York, said, 'All I know is the British may be able to make better bridges than we Americans, but if we build the bridge then we have the money for the bridge and we have the bridge. If the English build the bridge, well, we got the bridge but they got the money.'

Therein lies the foundation argument for the submarines. And if the argument is that we do not have the technology, well how the hell are we ever going to get the technology unless we have a go at it? Unless we face the challenge?

I see the hypocrisy of the government with their innovative advertisements on the television. Innovation! How can you innovate when you have no market to innovate for? When there is no production market out there I see very little point in innovating. But 4,000 jobs are to be created, so somewhere in Australia 4,000 people go off the welfare rights. And if that is $40,000 per person, we are talking about thousands of millions of dollars that are saved automatically because people somewhere will come off the welfare rolls; if 4,000 extra jobs are created then somewhere someone has to come off the welfare rolls. Whether you use the figure of $30,000, or $40,000 or $60,000 a year for a person on welfare, or a family on welfare, I will leave that to other people in this place.

When you pay those 4,000 workers, you get tax revenue from them. In fact, one quarter of what you pay them comes back to the government by way of tax revenue. So when we compare the real cost of getting the Germans or the Japanese to build the submarines, take out a quarter of the labour costs because that comes back to the government by way of tax.

I remember a great quote from the Chancellor of the Exchequer in Britain. He resigned because he could not serve under Margaret Thatcher anymore. And to some degree it was about the closure of the coal industry. He said, 'I could not convince her that, when you take a person off work, you lose the tax revenue and then you have to pay them on welfare.' If you add both those factors up, you end up behind: it was better to keep the coal mines working, even though they were running at a loss. He said, 'I failed to convince the woman.' That he did not have a high respect for her intelligence and her thinking capacity was fairly obvious in what he was saying.

Finally, if Australia is to have a technology industry and a defence capability, it needs these things to be built in Australia. At least we could make the boots in Australia! The member for Denison served his country well and proudly in the Army. Three years ago, I was speaking to the Warrant Officer at the catafalque party on Anzac Day in Charters Towers. I said, 'Is it true that the soles fell off the boots of 2,000 soldiers while they were marching in the Anzac Parade in Townsville?' He did not say anything. But he lifted his foot up. He had been walking on his socks. All he had was the uppers of his boots! I mean, what sort of country purchases its boots from a communist country that we have traditionally been on the other side of the fence from? We fought a war against them in Korea. The last serious war that this country fought in was the Korean War. To have them making our boots puts a whole new slant on 'Pig Iron Bob' attacks on the government!

In all seriousness, for our country to go forward without the capacity to have any sophisticated technology whatsoever is a disgrace to every single person in this parliament. And for them to contemplate for even a single second having our submarines built outside Australia is appalling. (Time expired)
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Re: Aussie Steyr - AUSTEYR

Post by Chickenhawk » 01 Mar 2016, 2:51 pm

<<Genesis93>> wrote:it should be made (whether under licence or not) preferably by an Australian Government entity or failing that - then by an actual 'Australian Company' where the technology/IP/profits remain in Australia.... but thats just my old fashioned foolish perhaps protectionist perhaps thinking... sorry.


Nope, if it's a dollar cheaper but all the money goes out of the country we'll do that instead :roll:
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