Varminter Build or Factory buy

[MalleeFarmer]

I'm thinking of building or buying a dedicated long range varminter for bunnies and foxes.

I have a .22-250 Featherweight which is plenty accurate for foxes and bunnies out to moderate ranges shoots Moa with some ammo but rarely better and regularly worse but it heats up and quickly starts "patterning" instead of grouping.

I did think of selling/trading it in but then I thought I could keep it (it's a nice looking rifle its light and it feels nice to shoot off-hand so a good walking varminter) But very limited by a 1-14 twist so varmints are all I can really use it for.

I was thinking of a 1-10 or 1-12 twist to shoot up to 65gr projectiles

But I'm not really familiar with varmint rifles and what is good or what is not. I have a HB howa .308 which is reasonably accurate. So the thought of the same rifle in .22-250 crossed my mind.

But then I thought about getting an action and making a custom what do you all think? Also is a 1-10 too fast for say 40-45gr at 4000fps?

[happyhunter]

I use a 204 Ruger for that type of shooting, specially if you are planning on shooting it a lot. Long barrel life, less heat when shooting high volume, easy to handload and a can of powder goes a very long way. Ideally a rifle that will stabilise the Sierra 39 grain Blitzkings. A real advantage of the 204 is there is no muzzle jump at all so you don't lose the sight picture which is handy if you need to make a follow up shot because you get to see the bullet splash and can make fast corrections.

Custom or factory is personal choice. If I was going custom I'd look out for an old Tikka m55 and build up from that and probably go 1:11" twist. Some of the 1:12" factory rifles are touch and go at stabilising the 39 and 40 grain bullets and you want those Factory I'd go either a RemingtonVSSF or CZ527. The heavy barrel CZ is really balanced and doesn't feel front heavy at all. Mine is a Remington with some customisation and the action has been trued.

If you want to shoot off hand definitely the CZ, or get something in a sporter profile or fluted.

[Gwion]

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/22-250/

About 1/3 down the page in the link above it discusses twist rate. Apparently the 1:12 will be good.

As far as factory or build; i say build if you can afford it and have the patience. Guy who built my 7-08 & 223 is good to deal with and has good turn around, communication and reasonable rates. Depends what you want to spend. When you can buy a Howa for about $1k.....

Would you go basic budget build or mid-high end "daddies favourite rifle" type build?

Zastava action (or doner rifle) $550
Trueflight barrel $550
Smithing $450
Stock???
Mounts & Optics???

I've been fantasising about building a walk around hunter on a Montana action.

[MalleeFarmer]

I wouldn't want to do Something that will be no better than a factory rifle. So I'd end up spending by the looks of gwions estimates somewhere around 3k by the time I stocked the barrelled action and mounted a scope. That's a lot of coin. When I compare a $700-1000 howa + a good scope and mounts I'm looking at 1.8k -2.2 so that's a Saving of 8-1200 bucks but not as satisfying but just as practical realistically for varminting. The other option is to rebarrel my M70 but I feel that would be a waste of something that was built and designed to be a lightweight carry around rifle. I have some thinking to do.

Does anyone have an old HOWA they don't want I need an action!!

[Bills Shed]

[quote="

Zastava action (or doner rifle) $550
Trueflight barrel $550
Smithing $450
Stock???
Mounts & Optics???
.[/quote]

I thought $450.00 for the smith work to be conservative, but yes a build would not be cheap. I did have the rem 700VSSF in 223. Awesome! I sold it Ithen I left WA as I have no need for it in Tas. What range do you want to varmint at +200m, + 300?
You can make many of the factory builds shoot very fine indeed with just a little load development.
Bill

[Gwion]

Bill, my recent build cost me $430 to have barrel chambered, crowned and fitted with a tidy up to the action. I did mention his rate were reasonable.

[sandgroperbill]

What game at what ranges?

[GLS_1956]

The question about the game and the range is very valid and important. For myself anything under and up to 300 yards(meters) can be handled by a cartridge in the .223 class/family including the 204 Ruger, assuming the bullet is placed properly. If the shots are going to be consistently at 300 yards or longer the 22/250, or something larger, would get my call. There are a fair number of cartridges out there, although some are either wildcats or not in the mainstream offering, that would suit the need.

Now if you choose to go the custom built rifle you'll find you are not limited to as narrow a selection of rounds as going the factory gun route. Now a custom gun is a wonderful thing to have. I have two custom guns one a Browning Hi-Power that was reworked by a pistol smith 30 years ago and a custom made single-shot built on a Wickliffe action. Let me remind you that there is a big difference between a custom made rifle by a true gunsmith and one put together by a parts swapper.

[happyhunter]

I think the word "varminter" kind of implies the size of game. The 204 shooting 39 SBKs only has a drop of 4 inches at 300 yards and less wind drift than the 22-250 beyond that. You'd have to go to heavier bullets in the 22-250 to match it.

Considering varmints in Australia means rabbits, cats and foxes the 204 will do the job easily.

[MalleeFarmer]

Thanks happy hunter I will consider a .204 as I already have one with dies and stuff ready to go. But I was really thinking of the .22-250 yes my main targets will be Bunnies, Hares, and Foxes but where I farm we also have some wild dogs, goats and Roos. I am getting something for ranges of 300yds+ as my current sporter weight varmint rifles can get me to 300 pretty well. And the ballistic differences between the .204 and the .22-250 are largely academic and real world differences are negligible. The major difference in my mind is powder use. The other thing is I have found .22 cal projectiles are generally cheaper than .20 cal in my area. And more selection. So I'm really still convincing myself that a .22-250 will be the go. Plus I like .22-250s

But cheers for the suggestion, I still may consider the .204 suggesting other calibers really makes me question my choice.

[happyhunter]

No probs. Custom rifle and handloading has me thinking 22-250 Ackley or 220 Swift is it's the 22 cal you are looking at but I tend to favour the less common cartridges.

There are several options that will give the velocity you are after. With shooting past 300 yards I tend to look for better wind deflection more than bullet drop. It's easier to compensate for bullet drop than windage but I find the 20cal gives the best of both due to the high B.C of the long narrow bullets available.

[<<Genesis93>>]

if you want something hotter than the 22-250, and the WSSM doesnt do it for you there are other even hotter like the 5.6x57.... the loads offered by ADI are limited, and I'm sure you could exceed the WSSM velocities which would allow the 50 or 60 range and larger projectile to be driven as respectable velocities, well and truly pulverise those varmints

[brett1868]

Elmer is probably the go to guy for long range varmint smashing, Sako 85 with a reasonably good scope and Sako rings. Might be a fraction more then the budget but if at some time in the future you want something different it'll be an easier sell then a custom built job. The "Barrel Burner" tag on 22-250 or .243 isn't really an issue with modern stainless steel barrels so it should last you a lifetime.

[MalleeFarmer]

I may consider the .22-250ai but really don't need more velocity than from the .22-250rem.

I have sort of decided on a custom build by a smith.

Here is my current list trying to go on a budget but not "cheap" ok so it may cost me a bit but if I source everything I need over the next 6 months all I'll get the smith to do is install the barrel and crown it and maybe true the action a little bit.

Some Questions if anyone would care to give me some input.

1. Which action of the ones listed and why? I'm leaning toward the howa but finding them is a pain and I don't want to buy a rifle just for the action.

2. What weight barrel. I want accuracy but not a straight barrel. Would a number 5 contour be ok? Or should I be looking at a Remington Varmint style/contour.

3. To flute or not to flute?

4. Which scope of the 3 listed or give me another suggestion.

TIA.

Regards
Luke

[brett1868]

2. What weight barrel. I want accuracy but not a straight barrel. Would a number 5 contour be ok? Or should I be looking at a Remington Varmint style/contour.

I'm about to lodge a B709 to bring in my barrel and action in from the U.S so if you would like a Lilja barrel let me know in the next week and I'll get it added onto my paperwork as it'll save you some $$ on export permits and shipping. I'm thinking to buy several barrels in the one hit over there and sell off the extras when they arrive to assist in recovering some of my costs.

Here's a link to various contours available from Lilja so you can see what's available
http://riflebarrels.com/barrel-contour-data/

[<<Genesis93>>]

Taking orders brett??
I'll have a couple of tubes...

[brett1868]

The fees and charges to get U.S export permits are around the $500 USD no matter if 1 or 100 items. Shipping is the only variable but adding another few barrels doesn't add much more to the cost. Lilja do some excellent 22 Cal barrels and I will probably buy a selection of their 22 / 17HMR drop in barrels for the Sako Quad cause they are hot items down here and can be sold fast.
If MalleeFarmer finds a barrel in the U.S then I'm more then happy to add it to my order and average the costs. @ 5 barrels it's $100 each and @ 6 its down to $84 so he'll also be saving me some money while also saving himself some.

[MalleeFarmer]

Thanks heaps for the offer Brett I will seriously consider it and PM you once I have decided.

[Varmtr]

I may consider the .22-250ai but really don't need more velocity than from the .22-250rem.

I have sort of decided on a custom build by a smith.

Here is my current list trying to go on a budget but not "cheap" ok so it may cost me a bit but if I source everything I need over the next 6 months all I'll get the smith to do is install the barrel and crown it and maybe true the action a little bit.

Some Questions if anyone would care to give me some input.

1. Which action of the ones listed and why? I'm leaning toward the howa but finding them is a pain and I don't want to buy a rifle just for the action.

2. What weight barrel. I want accuracy but not a straight barrel. Would a number 5 contour be ok? Or should I be looking at a Remington Varmint style/contour.

3. To flute or not to flute?

4. Which scope of the 3 listed or give me another suggestion.

TIA.

Regards
Luke

Luke your list is pretty much what my 22-250 is. I also tossed up with a AI or standard and overall the standard would do the only real benifet going AI is slightly better case life.
Mine is a Rem700 been accurized and a TSE fluted Rem varmint 26" S/S barrel with a 1:12.
Scope Vortex PST 6-24x50 SFP MOA with Ken Farrell rings and base.
Rifle basics trigger set to 3oz and David Tubb speed lock kit.
Stock is a laminated thumbhole made by Ken Noye.

So far haven't managed to test any reloads yet but with Hornady Superformance it shoots under a 5cent coin at 100y.

[GLS_1956]

I'd go for the Remington action, I'm sure you'll have it "Blueprinted", and being a round action it is easy to bed well.

Barrel wise I'd go for a stainless steel with flutes. I'm told the fluting adds stiffness and aids in cooling get the weight or profile you like.

The stock is personal choice, I like wood, laminated of course.

Of the scope brands listed I've only used, have only seen, Bushnell. So I'm not qualified to give advice.

[MalleeFarmer]

Varmtr what was your reasoning for 26" barrel was there a benefit for incresed velocity? I was thinking of going to 24" for a slightly stiffer barrel and a little less weight. Also how do you like the TSE barrel they are Australian are they not?

GLS I would prefer the howa mainly because of the integral recoil lug and square receiver. I have one already and have bedded it with no issues. But at this stage my Local shop owner recons he can get me a Remmy so ill be happy with that too. I also have bushnell scopes but I keep hearing all the good things people are saying about vortex scopes and thought I might try one out? Also a fluting doesn't really add stiffness from the contour its cut from but decreases weight and aids cooling via more surface area similar to the fins on an air cooled engine.

[Gwion]

Personally, I'd go the m70 action, that's why I've been looking at the Montana range. Why? It's like a hybrid of a Rem700 and a Mauser. Easy to bed, easy to work on if ever needed but still controlled feed, excellent safety and extraction.

I'd be inclined to go a varmint weight barrel, wouldn't bother with flutes because all said and done they are more flash than function. There's a whole conversation there but I won't start it. My choice would be Trueflite. Mainly because they are good to deal with, have excellent comp pedigree and are on the money both literally and with their turn around on orders. That said, Brett's offer with the Lilja would be tempting as well.

Also, have long think about splashing out on a GSR stock. Yes, they cost quite a bit more than the Boyds. I've had a Boyds for about 2 years now and a GSR is on my short list of upgraded if the cash is spare anytime soon. Don't discount the benefit of being able to adjust the stock to your shooting position on the fly.

I don't think you need 20moa rail for that rifle between 300-600.

Anyway. Mine's just another of the many 2 bob bits I'm sure you'll be thrown before your build is done. Have fun with it.

[Gwion]

Not pointing any fingers but over the last couple of years I have heard (or read) some very frustrating accounts of people buying barrels from Australian makers. Like long waits and bad communication. Happy to be told otherwise but that's why I went straight for Trueflite. NZers are sort of Aussies anyway!

[MalleeFarmer]

Cheers for the heads up on the GRS stock Gwion. I will check them out. Also I know fluting is more form than function but it still looks cool and even a slight benefit in cooling in my books is good. Also I agree I don't need a 20moa rail but I may as well have it as I can still zero at 100 and then I have the option of going out much farther I figure they're the same price and no drawbacks in my mind for a 20moa. Also cheers for the heads up on AU BBLs I will see if I get an email back from TSE. I will also check out truflite yea I was in NZ last year they're very Nice people at least in the country areas where I went. I recon we should annex it and adopt their gun laws! If not I'll try to get a confirmation from Brett on the lilja.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Ha.... NZ is already part of Aus... just have a read of s6 of the Constitution . ..

Fluting a given barrel reduces it weight AND its stiffness. Period

Action....consider the maker that offers various port options on sporter or target action.... savage... the action, floating bolt head, round action and switch barrelable too..

[MalleeFarmer]

No sorry I don't want a savage action and my reasoning is completely.. Well... Unreasonable. I can't get past the name savage it just sounds like it should be rough unrefined and nasty. I know it's just a name and it may be that I don't know what I'm on about. But I just can't do it. I know there are those who swear by them and will defend them to the death but hey if we were all the same what a boring world it would be!

[MalleeFarmer]

Just an update I have almost completely decided on a howa action as I can buy a second hand rifle Reasonably cheap definately cheaper than a new custom R700 copy or M70 copy.

[Gwion]

Nothing wrong with going the Howa option. Get it trued up a bit.

[MalleeFarmer]

Yes I will get it trued. I have decided I will take my time and save up to build it properly. I looked at those Montana actions they look great. But I don't think I could afford a custom action. I think I will go with those GRS stocks had a look online and they look awesome.

[Gwion]

Yep, those Montanas do look good. I have a fantasy project for a deer/GP hunting rifle in 7-08. It will either be a left hand Sako Hunter or a custom lefty on a Montana action. Probably be too old to hunt deer by the time i can afford one, though.