Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barrel

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Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barrel

Post by fawksel » 04 Nov 2013, 5:45 pm

Hi guys,

I know there have been a million scout threads, but here's one more :D

I'm looking for a cover-all .308 to use as my one rifle.

Some days out hunting, bit of fun at the shooting range.

Doesn't need to be F-Class accurate, have gone with the .308 as it's big enough for anything in Aus, and the Scout seems like a solid, fast handling unit for the bush and anywhere else.

Question is...

How does the shorter barrel do for accuracy? If you believe the write ups the 'semi-heavy' barrel makes up for the 18" barrel.

Who's got one? Shot one? How does it compare to a standard length barrel?
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Lorgar » 05 Nov 2013, 11:54 am

In my experience, it doesn't make up for it.

I've got a mate with a scout and I've got a Hawkeye in .308.

We did quite a bit of side-by-side testing and the 22" barrel Hawkeye typically shot slightly better groups than the 18" barrel Scout.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Supporter » 05 Nov 2013, 12:07 pm

Open to suggestions for other rifles?

Plenty better than the Ruger Scout IMO...
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Boatman » 05 Nov 2013, 4:08 pm

I can't really see why the Ruger Scout has so much buzz TBH.

It's gets so much press from some people you'd think it's the only game in town.

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All other options, just FYI...
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Ken » 06 Nov 2013, 8:20 am

Boatman wrote:I can't really see why the Ruger Scout has so much buzz TBH.


It was the first 'mainstream' Scout rifle I guess.

I know there were others before it obviously, but I guess none of them hard the marketing that Ruger did.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by chookah » 06 Nov 2013, 8:36 am

There is the Ruger Guide gun now don't forget...

Same concept basically with with 20" barrel.

Doesn't come in .308... You can get it in 30-06 with a muzzle brake though which should be much the same, if not better.

Food for thought.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by RealNick » 06 Nov 2013, 9:31 am

There was a write up in the Shooters mag a few months ago on the Guide Gun.

I can't remember the calibre they reviewed... I think it was either 30-06, but I could be wrong...

Anyway, it shot cloverleaf groups at a 100 with factory loads. Marketing aside, it looks like the Guide Gun can hold its own.

As it's a hunting rifle... to get the more powerful calibre, muzzle brake and longer barrel, I'd take the Guide Gun too.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Aster » 06 Nov 2013, 10:16 am

I was surprised that Ruger brought out the Guide Gun so soon after the Scout.

It was only about a year or something I think?

I get the feeling the Guide Gun is what the Scout was supposed to be.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Releb » 06 Nov 2013, 12:59 pm

Aster wrote:I get the feeling the Guide Gun is what the Scout was supposed to be.


A fair assessment I reckon.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Monty » 06 Nov 2013, 8:21 pm

chookah wrote:You can get it in 30-06 with a muzzle brake though which should be much the same, if not better.


Better certainly...

300 win mag with a decent brake feels somewhere between a .223 and .243 in my experience.

A braked 30-06 is a kitten.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by hrrl » 07 Nov 2013, 8:05 am

Boatman wrote:Steyr Mannlicher Scout

All other options, just FYI...


This was just getting talked about in another topic.

Ruger Scout = $1,200
Steyr Scout = $3,200

Not really another option for most :(
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Eduardo » 23 Nov 2013, 12:16 pm

I can't comment on the Hawkeye but here’s a bit of a comparison of the Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 and the Mossberg MVP Predator 5.56 since I've read people are curious about those two as well. Bear in mind that this is a bit of an unfair comparison as the Gunsite cost me $899 and the MVP cost me $529 (both before taxes) so it’s not apples to apples.

Stock:
The stocks have a very different feel, the Gunsite seems better for walking with. The taper on the forward end fits my hand better and the grip goes all the way around, making it very comfortable in my hands. The MVP’s stock is more squared at the fore end of possibly making it better for bench shooting. But for my preference and purpose, the Gunsite’s stock is more to my liking.

Aesthetics and Fit\Finish:
I include this category because it is important to me. I know some are exclusively concerned with functionality. But I’d be lying if I said that the way a rifle looks does not sway my decisions. I hold them side by side and I can’t help but like the looks of the Scout better. But the engravings around the MVP’s fore end of the stock are a nice touch. The swirl on the bolt and the lightning bolt trigger set it apart from the Gunsite. The color of both stocks are stunning and the fit and finish on both are top notch so all things being equal I’d have to give this one to the Scout. But the MVP is not far behind. I like the extra the features like flash suppressor and picatinny rail on the Scout. The Gunsite also has iron sites which are just about perfect, but I can’t hold the fact that the MVP does not have iron sights against it since I knew that when I brought it.

Balance & Weight
The Gunsite seems better balanced for walking around with. They really seem to have nailed the concept of a scout rifle. It just feels good in your hands. The MVP has the bull barrel making it very nose heavy by comparison. Although, that same weight likely helps absorb the recoil as there is very little, even for a .223. Overall weight is 7.4 lbs on the Gunsite (no scope) and 7.4 on the MVP (with scope mounted) according to my scale, so the MVP is lighter but it does not feel that way. Due to the balance, the Gunsite feels lighter. I thought the recoil on the Gunsite was more than my Dad’s .308 (the only I have to compare it to) which makes sense due to the shorter\lighter barrel. But not bad overall.

Trigger:
The Gusite trigger is great out of the box with an approximate 3.5-4.5 lbs weight and is very crisp with no play. The MVP’s trigger is just as good out of the box with about the same pull weight and is adjustable so I’d have to give the advantage to the MVP.

Barrel:
Gunsite has the flash suppressor but the MVP has a fluted bull barrel. Both are line items in my cool book. Draw

Capacity:
No brainer. I like the Ruger mags, very easy to load (not the stock one, I purchase the composite ones) but they are expensive. About $45 a pop plus you’re capped at 10 rounds max.
Advantage, MVP for obvious reasons, AR15 mags are super cheap and easy to come by.

However, the MVP lost points on the magazine receiver which is poorly designed. If you screw in the bolt that attaches to the stock to the barrel to hard, you can crack the magazine guide (mine actually came broken). It also takes some practice to remove the magazine quickly. You have to have a practiced motion of pushing slightly up on the magazine while operating the release otherwise it snags. Not bad, just an observation. However, the bar that actuates when you push the release does look a bit flimsy. I think the magazine receiver and release are better on the Gunsite.

Bolt Action:
The MVP bolt action is not as smooth as the Gunsite, and the Gunsite's bolt isn't exactly smooth. It’s got some annoying play to it which takes some practice to operate quickly. If you go too fast at the wrong angle, you’ll get hung up. I can’t help but compare both of them to the butter smoothness of the Browning and Weatherby’s bolt actions. However, the problem with the bolt actions with little to no play like the Weatherby\Browning is that if they get dirty, they start to suck a lot faster than the bolts on the ones with some clearance like the MVP and Gunsite. So, though the bolts on both the MVP and Gunsite are lose by comparison and take more practice to operate well, that probably makes them more reliable in adverse conditions. That being said, the MVP has a section of the bolt at the top as you open it that is VERY stiff. I suspect it will smooth out over time but as is, it’s tighter than any bolt I have ever operated.

Anyuway, hope this helps in some small way.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by fawksel » 23 Nov 2013, 1:30 pm

Wow, thanks for the huge write up Eduardo.

Helpful indeed.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Eduardo » 23 Nov 2013, 2:47 pm

fawksel wrote:Wow, thanks for the huge write up Eduardo.

Helpful indeed.


You're very welcome. Here's some pics just because.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by chacho » 23 Nov 2013, 4:42 pm

Mmmm. One those of those Ruger 10/22 for me please.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Lyam » 23 Nov 2013, 4:46 pm

Forget the 22, I'll take a few pistols :D
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Eduardo » 24 Nov 2013, 12:45 am

Why not, I have another one. :D

This 10/22 does not look like this anymore. I'll post up a more recent pic shortly. I brought two, one I want to look tachical, the other I want to put a bull barrel on and a good scope.


chacho wrote:Mmmm. One those of those Ruger 10/22 for me please.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Muddy1967 » 24 Nov 2013, 7:58 am

Question: "Why do Yanks have so many GUNS?" :?:

Answer: Because they CAN. :lol:

Half your luck in being able to get your hands on some nice toys.

Just remember, "He who dies with the most toys WINS" :P
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by huccl » 24 Nov 2013, 10:11 am

Muddy1967 wrote:Just remember, "He who dies with the most toys WINS" :P


No fair, the yanks have got so many more toys :(
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by MeccaOz » 13 May 2014, 7:59 pm

Boatman wrote:I can't really see why the Ruger Scout has so much buzz TBH.

It's gets so much press from some people you'd think it's the only game in town.

Savage 10 FCM Scout
Mossberg MVP series rifles
Steyr Mannlicher Scout

All other options, just FYI...


The reason I went for the scout, was because it's compact, has backup iron sites, the length of pull is easy adjustable ( Im kinda built like a tree stump,lol ), detachable magazines, I also love forward mounted scopes. As to the accuracy deal, my mate had a bedding job done on his and it really helps. I have yet to receive mine but I have shot them, and it's just to easy to get on target and make a quick shot.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by handofcod » 13 May 2014, 10:23 pm

Accuracy wise I have been impressed with the Scout. At first I thought I'd be impressed with 1.5 to 1 MOA but I've managed to shoot .5 MOA with 168gr TTSX and 42gr of 8208.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by MeccaOz » 13 May 2014, 10:41 pm

That does sound pretty awesome handofcod.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Prios » 13 May 2014, 11:34 pm

handofcod wrote:I've managed to shoot .5 MOA with 168gr TTSX and 42gr of 8208.


Pretty sure that's the best group I've heard of from one.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by handofcod » 14 May 2014, 9:00 am

Prios wrote:
handofcod wrote:I've managed to shoot .5 MOA with 168gr TTSX and 42gr of 8208.


Pretty sure that's the best group I've heard of from one.


Trick is to let the barrel cool sufficiently between shots. If you hurry it she'll shoot dinner plate sized groups. I should add these are three, not five shot groups. I just wanted to find the load that would hit where I aim , not win any competitions.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by MeccaOz » 14 May 2014, 9:40 am

Sounds like a great load, when mine gets here I think i'll work up to the load you mentioned handofcod :)
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by handofcod » 14 May 2014, 9:55 am

If you happen to have a chrony I'd love to know what muzzle velocity can be achieved with 8208. My second most accurate load was with 43gr which was a compressed load. Still shot under an inch though.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by Lorgar » 14 May 2014, 12:09 pm

Prios wrote:Pretty sure that's the best group I've heard of from one.


Indeed.

A mate of mine has done quite a bit of testing with his and only got down to 1.5" ish.

Will pass the load info along.
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by MeccaOz » 14 May 2014, 1:47 pm

I can get hold of one mate, I'll be sure to post up the info when it's done :)
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by handofcod » 14 May 2014, 2:24 pm

MeccaOz wrote:I can get hold of one mate, I'll be sure to post up the info when it's done :)


Sweet! That would be awesome! Cheers
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Re: Ruger Scout semi heavy barrel vs Hawkeye std length barr

Post by zook60 » 17 May 2014, 6:32 pm

Lorgar wrote:In my experience, it doesn't make up for it.

I've got a mate with a scout and I've got a Hawkeye in .308.

We did quite a bit of side-by-side testing and the 22" barrel Hawkeye typically shot slightly better groups than the 18" barrel Scout.


I would have to say that the barrel length has nothing to do with the accuracy of those two rifles. Any number of factors come into play.

For the same barrel thickness,brand and load ect a shorter barrel will be more accurate than a longer one if all variables are the same.

I see no reason why a gun would be more accurate in 22" rather than 18" in a hunting rifle. After all the 308 was originally designed for a 20" barrel.

In the same profile barrel the shorter barrel will be stiffer suffering less barrel wip than the longer one. This is all for a hunting rifle not talking about an Fclass gun with a truck axle barrel.

I think it all depends on how far you shoot and how thick scrub you hunt. A short barrel will be very handy in the bush. You may use a few FPS but the feral wont know the difference.
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