Barrel profile vs length?

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Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Goshawk » 11 Apr 2016, 3:11 pm

Hi all,
Question -
Why do 99% of short barrel rifles have heavy barrels? Why not have a short barrel (18 inches) in a 1# profile?
About the shortest 1# profile barrel I have seen is 20" on a Savage arms lightweight hunter.

Cheers
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by scotty87 » 11 Apr 2016, 8:45 pm

My guess would be the extra weight of the heavier barrel would help shooters control recoil in the larger calibers

Plus people like the tactical look I think, fluted heavy barrel, muzzle brakes etc.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by brett1868 » 11 Apr 2016, 9:14 pm

Might be related to rigidity, minimising whip or harmonic? Curious to see what others come up with cause this is an interesting observation. I personally tend to favour heavy barrels so I can use them at the range or out hunting where as lighter barrels are not so good if shooting multiple rounds in a short time.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Chronos » 11 Apr 2016, 10:12 pm

I think you'll find a lot of manufacturers have a goal overall weight in mind for a particular style of rifle. That weigh may be set by the marketing office but really it's the market itself that determines what is acceptable. You can't build a mountain rifle in 30-06 with an 18" heavy profile barrel because your customers will say "30/06 needs at least 22" to get deer weight pills up to speed" so they're forced to make it with a 24" no 3 profile barrel. The same reason they don't fit a 10 round magazine to the same rifle, because the sambar hunter that would buy it doesn't want it.

theres also a bit of science in there somewhere. I'm sure that harmonic differences between long and short barrels play a part, perhaps a short thin barrel creates such high frequencies that finding an accurate node becomes exponentially difficult

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Last edited by Chronos on 18 Apr 2016, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Gwion » 11 Apr 2016, 10:34 pm

Short thin barrels can be just as or more ridged as long heavy barrels of the ratio if length:wall thickness in the cylinder. I'm tipping market pressures, target weights and recoil management are the answer; as already mentioned above.

You could always build a rifle like that. I've been thinking of a left hand short barrel light weight hunting rifle for a while now.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Noisydad » 11 Apr 2016, 11:43 pm

At the Shepparton gun show there was a .45 muzzle loader allegedly built in the 1840's that had a 32 inch octagonal barrel that was 1 1/2 inches thick and had double set triggers. It would have been a target rifle as you couldn't carry a lump of iron like that very far.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by happyhunter » 12 Apr 2016, 6:49 am

My Anny 1530 has a short 19" sporter profile barrel. It's the best balanced rifle in the stable so barrel length effects the balance of the rifle too. Also, I don't agree that 99% of short barrels are heavy/thick barrels. My Browning has a very thin light 22" barrel so I think the 99% observation comes from the number of people falling for the marketing hype. People buy heavy barreled rifles to hunt and end up carrying a lot of extra mass around the paddock for no gain.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Chronos » 12 Apr 2016, 7:07 am

happyhunter wrote:My Anny 1530 has a short 19" sporter profile barrel. It's the best balanced rifle in the stable so barrel length effects the balance of the rifle too. Also, I don't agree that 99% of short barrels are heavy/thick barrels. My Browning has a very thin light 22" barrel so I think the 99% observation comes from the number of people falling for the marketing hype. People buy heavy barreled rifles to hunt and end up carrying a lot of extra mass around the paddock for no gain.


Styer Scout is another with a short thin barrel

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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Goshawk » 13 Apr 2016, 12:21 pm

I also have a Browning composite hunter (A-bolt in 308 ) with a 22" barrel. I have stated that it seems that a majority of rifles in the 16-18" barrel length are marketed with heavy barrels.
I have seen kimbers with 18" thin sporter barrels in 308 (and 3K price tag).
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Goshawk » 13 Apr 2016, 12:38 pm

Gwion wrote:Short thin barrels can be just as or more ridged as long heavy barrels of the ratio if length:wall thickness in the cylinder. I'm tipping market pressures, target weights and recoil management are the answer; as already mentioned above.

You could always build a rifle like that. I've been thinking of a left hand short barrel light weight hunting rifle for a while now.


I am considering getting my pencil thin 22" browning cut down to 18". I am thinking the rifle will be more ridged.
The rifle is mainly used for fallow hunting in thick mountain brush. Most deer shot under 80m with the rare one out at 200m.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 13 Apr 2016, 1:13 pm

Marketing.

short and fat looks cool.
short and skinny doesnt look 'right'...

long and fat looks good but is impractical, unless you hunt with a lifting crew.

Yes, a long whippy barrel with have a particular oscillation amplitude and frequency, lop of a few inches and it will have the same 'rigidity' but the oscillation will be reduced.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Goshawk » 13 Apr 2016, 1:47 pm

<<Genesis93>> wrote:Marketing.

short and fat looks cool.
short and skinny doesnt look 'right'...

long and fat looks good but is impractical, unless you hunt with a lifting crew.

Yes, a long whippy barrel with have a particular oscillation amplitude and frequency, lop of a few inches and it will have the same 'rigidity' but the oscillation will be reduced.

Yeah, I had previously owned a Howa, 24" heavy barrel in 243, so bloody heavy! It would break me by the third day of hunting in the mountains.

One of my friends just bought a Savage arms scout (18" with brake). It weighs 3.6kg bare (no scope etc). My A-bolt Composite hunter with full magazine, rifle sling, Talley rings and a heavy 4.5-18x40 scope (600grams) weighs 3.55kg. It's amazing how much difference in weight there is in barrel profiles.
Isn't the purpose of a scout rifle is to be under 1m and not weigh much?
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by happyhunter » 13 Apr 2016, 6:32 pm

Goshawk wrote:
<<Genesis93>> wrote:Marketing.

short and fat looks cool.
short and skinny doesnt look 'right'...

long and fat looks good but is impractical, unless you hunt with a lifting crew.

Yes, a long whippy barrel with have a particular oscillation amplitude and frequency, lop of a few inches and it will have the same 'rigidity' but the oscillation will be reduced.

Yeah, I had previously owned a Howa, 24" heavy barrel in 243, so bloody heavy! It would break me by the third day of hunting in the mountains.

One of my friends just bought a Savage arms scout (18" with brake). It weighs 3.6kg bare (no scope etc). My A-bolt Composite hunter with full magazine, rifle sling, Talley rings and a heavy 4.5-18x40 scope (600grams) weighs 3.55kg. It's amazing how much difference in weight there is in barrel profiles.
Isn't the purpose of a scout rifle is to be under 1m and not weigh much?


The Browning Abolt is one of the most under rated rifles out there. I wouldn't trade mine for quids. Light, balanced and built right they shoot great right out the box.
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 13 Apr 2016, 6:40 pm

FN do make a good rifle, I handled a mauser actioned Browning a while back, not sure what model it was, in I nice grippy rubberised stock (Hogue??) heavier profile 20inch barrel, and it did feel very well balanced....nice and pointy....
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Rakk » 18 Apr 2016, 3:06 pm

Chronos wrote:You can't build a mountain rifle in 30-06 with an 18" heavy profile barrel because your customers will say "30/06 needs at least 22" to get deer weight pills up to speed" so they're forced to make it with a 24" no 3 profile barrel.


And carrying around a 22" + bull barrel is heaps of fun :lol:
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by brett1868 » 18 Apr 2016, 3:37 pm

This is the barrel I've got coming for "Project 50"....14.4kg or 31.74Lbs for our metrically challenged brothers :D Will only occasionally be used for hunting :lol:

Barrel.JPG
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 18 Apr 2016, 5:35 pm

Chronos wrote: also a bit of science in there somewhere.

Chronos.


Amen, brother.

( Uncle Nick was / is, a stickler for minimum barrel lengths.)
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by WayneO » 18 Apr 2016, 11:53 pm

[quote="brett1868"]This is the barrel I've got coming for "Project 50"....14.4kg or 31.74Lbs for our metrically challenged brothers :D Will only occasionally be used for hunting ::

You are going to need a few gun barres to carry that thing for you.
Reminds me of going on a hunt with a certain African P.H who makes a lot of hunting videos. Great guy and good fun to be in the bush with. He has two poor guys who have to carry his .600 Nitro around the place while he carries his .500 :unknown: posting.php?
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Re: Barrel profile vs length?

Post by Bark » 02 May 2016, 1:37 pm

<<Genesis93>> wrote:Marketing.

short and fat looks cool.


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