What calibre for next rifle?

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What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Festus Magnus » 06 May 2016, 12:18 am

G'day all,

So I've got my Miroku MK10 12ga, with a Browning T-Bolt 22lr sporter on the way. The Sydney SHOT show is in a little under 2 months, and I'm thinking of sending off another PTA to have it ready for that special weekend.

I'm looking at getting a centrefire, but I'm slightly fuzzy on what calibre I ought to get. I'm imagining this rifle won't be used as often as, say, the T-Bolt (general target practice at the range) and the Miroku MK10 (clays), but I'm planning on using it for deer hunting, for which I'm slowly getting myself prepared.

Now, I understand that there are recommended minimum calibres for deer hunting: .243 for hog, fallow and chital; while .270 for sambar, rusa and red.

My question is: is there any particular point in going up to a 30-06 or 308? I had read that some frown on the choice of these calibres for deer, as one appears 'overgunned' - but I've no idea whether this sentiment has any truth to it.

Would it be completely acceptable to stick with a .270 for all varieties of deer in Australia?
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Title_II » 06 May 2016, 12:36 am

Some of your deer are pretty big. I would consider aught-6. Heck, we used to use it to shoot people and it's popular for shooting whitetail here in the US. I'm not a fan of using the minimum you can get by with for animals.

6.5 Swede will kill everything on your continent and is a lighter load. But ammo is harder to come by, and you are not going to get surplus ammo to shoot off from 50 different countries.

Then again, I don't hunt, and I'm not an Aussie.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by animalpest » 06 May 2016, 1:04 am

If you "go up in calibre" to .30 you wont go back, nor will you want for something bigger. In truth, a bigger calibre means a bigger hole in the animal and that means a better kill ratio.
If your thinking of shooting longer ranges, then the .270 has it slightly over the .30's ballistically but really there is nothing the .270 does that the 30/06 doesnt do better. A 30/06 shines above a .308 when shooting 180 gr bullets and above (such as for sambar). Reds and Rusa are easily dispatched with a .308 with quality bullets. Whether you get a 30/06 or .308 would depend on if you like a shorter action for lightness or a longer action. My personal go-to deer rifles are Tikka T3 Lite in .308 in the bush or a long action (25/06 for the smaller stuff and 30/06 for bigger) in the open. But the reality is that we use a .308 for everything from dogs to camels. That is all I have packed for a trip to the Gascoyne, Pilbara and Kimberley working professionally,
I used to have a 30/06 which I burnt out a couple of barrels shooting stuff from pigs to buffalo. Loved it with the heavy bullets. Now I own 308's. Cannot see the point in a .270
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by GLS_1956 » 06 May 2016, 1:04 am

As in all cases it is a situation of reasonable range and accurate bullet placement. The 243Win is used on deer, antelope, and Wapiti, otherwise known as Elk. The 243's sister cartridges; 260Rem, 7mm-08, and 308 will handle the game as well, with the latter two being a bit better than the former two for the bigger game. The 30/06 of course will handle all of those sized animals and those of a larger nature as well, you can get factory loads with more velocity at give bullet weight and with heavier bullets.

But were I to go out and buy a deer/elk rifle right now it would be what I bought 30ish years ago, a 308 with a 20 inch barrel. The short action is a bit stiffer than a long action, or so it is said, and is also a little bit lighter. Mind you since I bought a Mannlicher stocked rifle I didn't really save anything in the weight category.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Gwion » 06 May 2016, 9:15 am

You might find this website useful. Lots of real world info on cartridge performance from the terminal perspective, not just 'target' based info: http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html

I would personally go a 7mm-08 (i have one but it's a big chunky thing and not for carrying far). I have a load developed with 120gn bullets for smaller animals and 162gn bullets for bigger animals and longer range shooting. I am dreaming of a Sako lefthand Hunter in 7mm-08 with the barrel shortened to around 18-20".
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Chronos » 06 May 2016, 10:28 am

I don't think there is any such thing as over gunned but you can be caught without "Enough GUN"

You can choose different bullets/loads for different jobs. I bought a light weight .308 for a general hunting gun. I run 130gr Federal's most of the time and have takes pigs, goats and foxes with them. Then I change to 165gr Game Kings for hunting deer.


The .243 is a good round but I don't think there's any point limiting yourself. I'd look at a .308, 7-08, .270, 30-06 or even .338 federal. All will take all but the biggest Sambar and bull buff but if you plan on chasing trophy sized deer 30-06 would be the minimum I'd consider, you would want to know you've got the extra grunt. I chose a .338WM as my big banger with a deer trip and a chance to hunt in the NT this year

At the end of the day it's hard to go past a .30 cal for practicality for a hunting gun in my opinion

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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Kai » 06 May 2016, 1:28 pm

You can drop sambar and buff with a bow and arrow.
Its all about shot placement, 308 270 3006 7mm08 are all going to do the trick
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Rakk » 06 May 2016, 1:44 pm

Chronos wrote:The .243 is a good round but I don't think there's any point limiting yourself. I'd look at a .308, 7-08, .270, 30-06


Yep.

Different is not significant enough between a .243 and .308 etc. to justify one if you want just one gun for deer hunting. Makes no sense limiting yourself to 50% of them IMO.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by scotty87 » 07 May 2016, 4:44 pm

I'd go about it the other way, find a rifle or platform that you like then pick the chambering.

I've been looking into a 9.3 x 62 as I'm wanting a classic wooden stock, Mauser action European rifle for my next rifle.

If your going to reload, .280 remmington (American rifles) or 7x64 brenneke (european rifles) are other good options for an all rounder
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Chronos » 07 May 2016, 6:16 pm

Kai wrote:You can drop sambar and buff with a bow and arrow.
Its all about shot placement, 308 270 3006 7mm08 are all going to do the trick


Yeah, everyone always says "it's about shot placement"

Then they put a shot from their accurate rifle into a stag and have to wonder what happened as it charges off into the scrub never to be found.

Bow hunting is quite different because the animal reacts differently when hit and you're relying on blood loss alone.

I put three shots in the chest of a billy last year with my .308 and it didn't look like it had even been hit. Heard every impact but it barely flinched. It walked out of sight and collapsed. I'm not sure it'd have stopped where it did and if it had gone another 50m I'm not sure if have found it.

I've heard so many people tell me 30-06 is more than enough gun for Sambar. I've spoken to others who have lost that dream animal because the one shot they got wasn't enough to drop it.

Others say .300WM or their .375H&H is their buff gun but a bloke I know who shoots plenty of them can tell many stories of a bill that took multiple shots from a medium bore and even larger guns and didn't look like stopping. One animal he told me about took over 1/2 a pound of lead from two experienced shooters before it went down. It had two busted front shoulders, blown out both lungs and the heart but walked many many meters before it collapsed

I'm just that's what I'd do, others think differently otherwise there's no only a couple of cartridges out there.

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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Kai » 07 May 2016, 8:00 pm

No probs Chronos
Everyones knows someone or has experiences themselves that contradict other peoples experiences.
I've met quite a few bow hunters, being one myself, that drop sambar, buff and all sorts of african game with a bow no problems at all.
I've had no problems dropping anything with 308 303 or 270, or even deer, pigs and goats with a caliber that would be say not recommended.
Any spine, head or neck shot is going to drop something straight away.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Heckler303 » 07 May 2016, 8:18 pm

Personally, I would recommend either a .308 or a 25-06. .308 has plenty of reloading options, cheaper to and easier to come by than 30/06, can be used for both target work and for medium game, lots of reloading options and plenty of rifles chambered for the cartridge.

I would also say a 25-06, because of how flat and fast it shoots, the range it's able to be used at and the power you can get from 87grn soft tip projectiles.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Festus Magnus » 11 May 2016, 12:38 am

Thanks fellas for all the helpful advice! I think I've settled on .308, if only because it seems a 'safe' choice in respect to its availability and relative cost-efficiency compared to other calibres.

Now it's just time to choose a scope!
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Noisydad » 11 May 2016, 7:37 am

Go for something unusual. 223s, 308s, 22-250s etc are like backsides...everyone's got one.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Gwion » 11 May 2016, 9:11 am

Also, availability means squat if you stick to the 6P rule:

Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance!

If you plan and prepare properly, you wont need to try to find ammo in some Black Stump General Store.

Never the less, the 308 would be just fine for what you want.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Norton » 11 May 2016, 11:38 am

Kai wrote:I've met quite a few bow hunters, being one myself, that drop sambar, buff and all sorts of african game with a bow no problems at all.


I have no experience with bow-hunting so can't comment but bow-hunting a buffalo... I have this picture in my head that the effect would be like stabbing one with a letter opener :lol:

Just can't see it :lol: (not saying you're wrong).

I'll feel more comfortable staying behind the .416 ;)
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by WayneO » 11 May 2016, 8:09 pm

Gwion wrote:Also, availability means squat if you stick to the 6P rule:

Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance!

If you plan and prepare properly, you wont need to try to find ammo in some Black Stump General Store.

Never the less, the 308 would be just fine for what you want.



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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by VICHunter » 16 May 2016, 2:42 pm

:lol: :clap:
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by sandgroperbill » 16 May 2016, 3:49 pm

Ok, ok, I'm going to be "that guy". If you have settled on .308, it will be solely for hunting and you think you may get into reloading, perhaps consider .30-06. Gives you a little more versatility when reloading. 220gr roundnose, anyone?

But, a .308 is completely suitable for any serious hunting you may do in oz. As for the .308 ammo being more readily available than .30-06? I have never found a store with .308 that didn't have .30-06 right next to it. But... You can get ADI and OSA in .308, which makes it pretty attractive if you won't be rolling your own.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Gibbo » 16 May 2016, 3:49 pm

30-06

I have a 308 and my mate has a 30-06, both REM700's. Our other mate has a Sako 270. We all reload. My 308 has a varmint barrel (10 twist) and a break fitted and I can shoot it at steel for a bit of fun all day no worries. We have all played with 110 gr on foxes and heavier stuff out to distance. His 30-06 is a deer gun, hunter profile barrel, etc.

For what it's worth my 308 is more accurate, easier on the shoulder and can be shot for fun no worries. I wouldn't want to use the 30-06 for anything other than sighting in and stalking/shooting deer. It is much lighter and an easier carry.

The Sako 270 is a tack driver. Medium stainless barrel roughtech, very nice. But twice the price of our Remingtons and you have to get decent glass or you are letting the gun down... so pricey option.

Anyway... I like my 308, my mate likes his 30-06 and my other mate likes his 270 and all would kill a deer dead.

If I were picking one for strictly deer only i would go the cheap 30-06 because I know I would only end up going deer hunting 1-2 times per year and I would rather save the money for a upgrades to my 223 or 308 or a new shotgun or 22LR or night vision scope or fridge for the ute or a new tent or 7000 rounds of 223 or an exotic animal like a small monkey, etc.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by WayneO » 16 May 2016, 5:33 pm

30.06 for people who want a big caliber but who are to scared to shoot a .375 H&H
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by happyhunter » 16 May 2016, 7:39 pm

WayneO wrote:30.06 for people who want a big caliber but who are to scared to shoot a .375 H&H


375 H&H is not that heavy on recoil. It's more like a 'push' than a 'punch' on the shoulder. My mates little 5'2" hottie missus shot one and after only having shot a 12 guage and her first shot response on the 375 was "Can I have another shot?"
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by darwindingo » 16 May 2016, 10:45 pm

Good on Her that's awesome !!!! Hope she has the bug and takes up the sport ! My little hottie's first shot was a .458 win mag... I have to say that she grouped better than 9/10 (rather) experienced mates when they had their turn.. I was seriously impressed and proud !!!

I've told her that a " You name it and you've got it " policy with regard to her choice of firearm will be facilitated...!!

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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Elek » 17 May 2016, 2:51 pm

WayneO wrote:30.06 for people who want a big caliber but who are to scared to shoot a .375 H&H


One could read that as saying .375 H&H is for people who want to feel tough but not shoot sensibly. Meh.

.375 is a lot of gun, relatively speaking, excessive for the majority of hunting in Australia, including deer.

If you want one for whatever, great. If buffalo or regular big game make it a smart choice, great.

Knocking anyone for not enjoying shooting one is just posturing, poor form IMO, it doesn't make you a tough guy if you shoot one, and doesn't make you a wuss if you don't.

A .270 like OP originally asked about would be fine, as would a .308, 30-06 or similar cartridge. Thousands of deer are cleanly taken every year with these cartridges proving so.

For deer I'll happily shoot the cheaper, gently options thanks.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by WayneO » 17 May 2016, 4:49 pm

Elek wrote:
WayneO wrote:30.06 for people who want a big caliber but who are to scared to shoot a .375 H&H


One could read that as saying .375 H&H is for people who want to feel tough but not shoot sensibly. Meh.

.375 is a lot of gun, relatively speaking, excessive for the majority of hunting in Australia, including deer.

If you want one for whatever, great. If buffalo or regular big game make it a smart choice, great.

Knocking anyone for not enjoying shooting one is just posturing, poor form IMO, it doesn't make you a tough guy if you shoot one, and doesn't make you a wuss if you don't.

A .270 like OP originally asked about would be fine, as would a .308, 30-06 or similar cartridge. Thousands of deer are cleanly taken every year with these cartridges proving so.

For deer I'll happily shoot the cheaper, gently options thanks.


I kind of think that you missed the sarcasm in that post, but fortunatly we have that covered; heres your sign :sarcasm:
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Oldbloke » 17 May 2016, 8:45 pm

How many times has this been discussed? A hundred times. In my view my preference in order would be:
3006, 308, 270. All good and ammo is easy to obtain, prices reasonable.

If you hunt only ocassionally, dont send a mint on the rifle. Any of the common brand rifles will shoot good enough for hunting if you reload.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by WayneO » 17 May 2016, 8:59 pm

if i was going for 1 rifle only for hunting in Australia, I would be hard pressed to choose between the .270, .308, 7 x 57 and 30.06
However just because its not very common and its different, I would probably go with a 7x57, but if being practical is important, then the .308 would get my vote.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by MalleeFarmer » 18 May 2016, 6:34 pm

I think you have made a wise choice on the .308 I have 2 a HB Howa (plinking and longer range hunting) and a MkX Mauser 20" barrel 3-9x40 scope it's my scrub gun and I love it it's my favourite rifle and most accurate. Having said that I probably love the .308 as I have one, it was a toss up between that and the 06 when I bought my first .30
Either the .30-06, .308, or .270 will serve you well and all of them with correct shot placement will not be out of their league anywhere in OZ. Buff may be the only exception.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Zilla » 14 Jun 2016, 10:53 am

MalleeFarmer wrote:Either the .30-06, .308, or .270 will serve you well and all of them with correct shot placement will not be out of their league anywhere in OZ. Buff may be the only exception.


That's the whole conversation in a nutshell.

A 140gr - 150gr hunting bullet and decent shot placement out of any of those will all drop a deer, and anything smaller, just the same.
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Re: What calibre for next rifle?

Post by Title_II » 14 Jun 2016, 11:24 am

Gibbo wrote:30-06

I have a 308 and my mate has a 30-06, both REM700's. Our other mate has a Sako 270. We all reload. My 308 has a varmint barrel (10 twist) and a break fitted and I can shoot it at steel for a bit of fun all day no worries. We have all played with 110 gr on foxes and heavier stuff out to distance. His 30-06 is a deer gun, hunter profile barrel, etc.

For what it's worth my 308 is more accurate, easier on the shoulder and can be shot for fun no worries. I wouldn't want to use the 30-06 for anything other than sighting in and stalking/shooting deer. It is much lighter and an easier carry.

The Sako 270 is a tack driver. Medium stainless barrel roughtech, very nice. But twice the price of our Remingtons and you have to get decent glass or you are letting the gun down... so pricey option.

Anyway... I like my 308, my mate likes his 30-06 and my other mate likes his 270 and all would kill a deer dead.

If I were picking one for strictly deer only i would go the cheap 30-06 because I know I would only end up going deer hunting 1-2 times per year and I would rather save the money for a upgrades to my 223 or 308 or a new shotgun or 22LR or night vision scope or fridge for the ute or a new tent or 7000 rounds of 223 or an exotic animal like a small monkey, etc.


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