Too clean barrels and other oddities

[wildcard6]

I have a friend who has twice attended 'sniper school' in the USA and he tells me that military/police snipers always fire a fouling shot after cleaning their barrels. This has always made me wonder why they bother cleaning their barrels in the first place? In my own case, I have noticed that my Sako 85 .223 Varmint rifle does NOT put the first shot through a clean barrel in the same place as those that follow. The first shot is always wayward - high and left. Because I've been watching for it, another thing has shown up that seems to be related to this effect and that is changing loads using different powders. I have been using AR2208 for some time now in the .223 but recently changed to AR2206H and have noticed the same thing happens when changing from one load to the other. I had been using the 2206H load on paper then swapped to the 2208 load and the first shot was well away from the four shots that followed it. The four went into a tight group, but the first one went astray - again. When I say astray, I mean far enough that I wouldn't want it to be a real-world shot at a fox 200 meters away. Is this a fussy barrel? Or is this common? I've always cleaned my barrel after any shooting trip, no matter whether I fired five shots or fifty. Am I over-cleaning the barrel? Suggestions are welcome.

[Wm.Traynor]

You could try oiling your cleaned barrel with Ballistol. Dry out the chamber and bore prior to shooting. It Might prevent that "wayward" first shot but that is by no means certain, although it worked for me and other Fullbore blokes.

Cleaning, done properly, will slow the carbon build-up. This stuff spoils accuracy if left long enough. Changing loads is notorious for changing POI, in my experience.

Good luck

[dogmatix]

Actually, try flushing out all oil residue from the barrel before firing the first shot, use meths or a brake cleaner.
See if that makes a difference, it does with my Sako .270.

[Title_II]

There is a difference between a little fouling and chronic fouling and buildup. Yes, the first shot on a clean barrel will be slightly off, and you should fire one or two fouling shots if you are going to need high precision with your first shot. But not cleaning the barrel will eventually degrade accuracy.

[Varmtr]

Can of worms.
My ol mans 20 PPC clean barrel or dirty barrel shoots the same poi same goes for 22250 after it was re barrelled. But the original barrel on the 250 needed a fouling shot but after 15-20 rounds it started go. This barrel copper fouled badly.
Each barrel is different animal and quality some shoot same poi on clean and some don't, but on the same token you shouldn't let the barrel foul to the point of loosing accuracy. Quite a few barrel makers in the states and here say more barrels are stuffed do to over cleaning compared to being shot out.
Let the barrel tell you what it likes being a 223 it isnt a barrel burner by any means. Keep a round count and see when its accuracy stats to go eg 50 rounds then you know so maybe at 40 rounds time a clean. Also a round count log is good as you'll know how many have been down the tube. Also log what the poi is on a clean barrel so you know that on your first shot how to compensate for a first round hit.
In regards to powders find one thats accurate and works consistent and stick to it. Changing from one powder to another can effect the harmonics and node points of the barrel thus different poi or not grouping. As always some barrels can handle it not many, but most don't.

[AusTac]

1st shot on a totally clean cold barrel will always differ poi, but as has been said a totally fowled barrel will be detrimental to accuracy which is why cleaning is a must, its personal experience and training with your specific firearm, load data, and personal habits that matter when it comes to making a cold bore clean/dirty/fowling shot. The only real way of compensating for the difference in poi is putting rounds down range, and training hard, recording all the data and understanding whats going on.

Does it really matter that much though? For the majority of us on this site theres no consequences in missing a cold bore shot besides one less fox/ravbit

[happyhunter]

I have a friend who has twice attended 'sniper school' in the USA and he tells me that military/police snipers always fire a fouling shot after cleaning their barrels. This has always made me wonder why they bother cleaning their barrels in the first place?

Scrubbing every scrap of residual oil from the bore is more like it.

[SendIt]

I have a friend who has twice attended 'sniper school' in the USA and he tells me that military/police snipers always fire a fouling shot after cleaning their barrels. This has always made me wonder why they bother cleaning their barrels in the first place?

As a target shooter it would be silly for you to clean it, then fire a round before storing it. Yes, you'd just be adding a contaminant to the barrel which over time wouldn't be the best thing for it.

Reasons for a fouling shot having been explained, you would do your first couple of practice shots at the range before taking it to your targets for accurate groups.

I'm not speaking from a military/police experience here but no doubt it's not very practical for police to rattle off a few warm up shots before heading into a life/death situation, and obviously not while at one. So I guess that leaves them with having a fouled rifle ready to go.

Doesn't hurt when someone else is paying all the repair bills and for new equipment either.

[wildcard6]

Thank you all for the input and thoughts. I fired only two shots on my last trip and tried giving the barrel a very LIGHT clean using a couple of patches of G96 spray followed by an oily patch. Today at the range I patched out and fired one shot at 200 meters on one target followed by a three-shot group on another. The total group size of all four shots was exactly .5", so it would appear the first 'cold bore' shot flyer was eliminated. I was talking to an F-Class shooter who was prepping his rifle for a big shoot on the weekend and he finished up cleaning the bore, then firing FIVE rounds as foulers and putting the rifle away. It is not always convenient to fire a fouling round before a 'money shot' on a live target, so this light cleaning regime will be getting a thorough testing over the next few weeks to see how things go. Good shooting all and again, thanks.

[Wm.Traynor]

Not cleaning, involves leaving carbon in the bore which leads to rusting. Thorough cleaning followed by the likes of Ballistol or your G96, will prevent rusting and reduce the cold bore flyer effect. Ballistol is not recommended for long term storage however.

[Releb]

Ballistol is not recommended for long term storage however.

Is that so?

Haven't read that before.

[Wm.Traynor]

Ballistol is not recommended for long term storage however.

Is that so?

Haven't read that before.

The results of a test of a number of products was published on Marlin Owners. Cannot recall when. It seemed to be a "torture test" to me which is unfair but there it is. No one would store their barrel under the test conditions but Ballistol did not come out on top.

[WayneO]

I think Sendit hit the nail on the head when he said

Doesn't hurt when someone else is paying all the repair bills and for new equipment either.

For those of us that pay for our rifles with hard earned cash, we clean them and then we fire of 3 rounds before we start shooting in competitions or in the hunting field. I always leave a layer of oil in the barrel and run a pull through before I start shooting.

Chris Kyle touched on the subject of how he looks after his own weapons compared to how he looked after his service weapons, and the two nowhere near the same.

[WayneO]

On a side note to this, am I the only one who is being driven mad by the heading of this post?

[bluerob]

On a side note to this, am I the only one who is being driven mad by the heading of this post?

Umm, at the moment ALOT of things gun related are driving me mad, but, cleaning regimes are always a good read.

I've seen BR shooters leave guns in the sun (to heat up the barrel) and ammo also. Whatever works best I suppose.

I was practicing with my 9mm Sig Sauer. Probably put 200 rounds through it for practice. It'd had 300 through it previously. Gave it a super clean the night before a trophy match. I only use lead projectiles and enough propellant to make power factor (I dont use hot loads).

Let 2 go, and the 3rd stove piped. Out of the match. The gun had never stove piped before.

Went to the next door range and loaded up 2 x 10 round mags. Didn't have 1 issue.

[AusTac]

Chris Kyle touched on the subject of how he looks after his own weapons compared to how he looked after his service weapons, and the two nowhere near the same.

Sounds like an intresting read, do you remember where you saw it mate?

[Title_II]

US Military requires you to keep weapons spotless in every nook and cranny. It causes excessive wear and tear on the weapons. SEALs have a lot of liberty, not sure what their SOPs are, if any, or if they have inspections. Or, perhaps, just their habits.

[WayneO]

Its in the book American Sniper, but like I said, he only briefly touches on the subject.