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[Gamerancher]

G'day Mongrel
By all accounts the Marlin is a pretty good piece of kit and excellent value. The Weatherby mentioned is a Howa 1500. As for scopes, you'll need to spend at least as much on the scope as you do on the rifle to get anything that is going to have decent glass, good repeatable adjustment and reliability.
You haven't said what type of target shooting you are likely to be doing. For a decent "target" scope they start at around a grand.
I personally shoot metallic silhouette and all of my scoped rifles wear VX-111 Leupolds with 3/8 target dot reticles. These have very good repeatable adjustments which, as we shoot anywhere from 40 to 500m, are in constant use. As for use in the field they are useless. You can't see the cross-hair, it's too fine.
My hunting rifles all wear Khales.
I don't mean to put you off, I started shooting back in the 1980's. We all have a budget we have to work to. I started with Tasco's and Nikko's, probably like most blokes on here.
You have to start somewhere, good luck.

[Mongrel]

Thanks guys
When i say target shooting i dont mean in comps or anything like that, just setting up targets and having fun with mates. Gonna be more used for hunting i think.
My mate is getting a .22 for now, which will be our plinker.
Hopefully i can get a scope around the $200-$250 mark that will work with what i need.

[Wm.Traynor]

Scopes are really maddening. There is Gamerancher who has worked his way up to Kahles and swears by them. But I would not give you two bob for one. That is my experience with one after having a very good run for years with one of their variables. In my ignorance, a Marlin Papoose was sold off because I blamed the rifle for the poor groups instead of the scope. Even after an Expensive trip back to the factory, it was still rubbish. This and other experiences, has put me off all scopes but good luck to anyone with a good one; they are great when they work.

[Gamerancher]

Condemning a brand of scope due to one mans experience with one individual scope is a bit short sighted considering the number they have made. By the way , my hunting scopes are all "old school" fixed power, steel tubed jobs. Excellent clarity and stay sighted in despite a lot of miles being carried around the bush over the years.
All were purchased second hand and have never given any me trouble. I did however, purchase one of my Leupolds second hand and had to send it back to the U.S for repairs. Previous owner had wound the turrets to the extremities and then a bit more buggering up the adjustment mechanism. Leupold fixed it and sent it back no charge, that's back up service for you!

[Mongrel]

Thanks guys, Everyone will have favourites and personal opinions. Keep them coming its good to have feedback good and bad of all things.
My choice will mainly be from cost, but some from what i read here and on the google thing that seems to know everything lol.
Hope fully my PTA arrives this week as i got my email saying its approved last week.

[chrispy88]

I don't have any experience with the Marlin but can vouch for the Howa 1500. It is indeed the same action as the Weatherby Vanguard S2. And the Weatherby comes with a sub-MOA accuracy guarantee so you can expect the same sort of accuracy from the Howa. The Howa is a heavy-ish action compared to some others.

Mine is a stainless varmint barrel in a Boyds stock but you can get a blued sporter barrel model in a hogue stock for about $500 new. With a lot of help from Apollo fine tuning loads mine has produced 0.25-0.3 MOA groups. Not bad for what Apollo calls a "cheap nasty clunky Howa with a horrible fat crosshaired hunting scope" Best not let BigFella see that!

IMO, buy either the Marlin or the Howa without a scope, whichever does it for you, and top it with a 3-9x40 Leupold VX1 for $330 odd or similar. For $800-900 you have a reliable accurate hunting rifle with a decent scope. You'll also be able to shoot gongs out to 300-500m with this for fun, but once you want to start chasing target shooting accuracy you'll realise you want to spend at least about 3x your current budget. Build this one now and enjoy while you develop your skills and good habits, and save for the next one.

[Bosbefok]

I have no experience with the XS7. If it were my choice I would go the wetherby/howa route as they seem to be a no frills solid rifle (don't have one of them either). I have a 308 and now wish I had a 30-06. But it does the job well. My first scope was a Tasco for $120. It lasted about 4 hunts and then I couldn't hit Sh!t for another 2 hunts (very frustrating). Now most of my rifles wear vx1s. Not had a problem since. In my opinion it's a waste to spend under $300 on a scope. Good luck mate.

[WayneO]

I have always advocated saving on the rifle and spending on the scope. I have rifles back home that cost around $ 800.00 but have $600 and $ 1000 scopes.
most rifles will shoot better than most people will ever be able to shoot, but without decent glass you will never come close to your rifles ability.
The marlins are great rifles and will do what they need to do, but its never going to be as pinpoint as a Howa, and at the end of the day. Only accurate rifles are interesting.

[Mongrel]

Thanks Crispy, Bosbefok and Wayno.

looks like a couple more votes for howa/weatherby and marlin.... Decisions decisions lol

Crispy is this the one you mentioned?

howa.jpg (705.81 KiB) Viewed 6342 times

[Mongrel]

Cheers Sako

Seems you lean more towards marlin as the pros list is longer.
I got to meet up with Wm.Traynor today and he shared some very useful knowledge for me about cleaning and looking after the rifle.
So thanks gaain Bill. Was great to put a face to the name. And its even better to know that there is people out there will to share knowledge
So after having a chat i think im leaning more towards a howa 1500, like the pic in my last post.

Will Keep you guys informed as soon as my PTA arrives....waiting waiting waiting :/

[Mongrel]

Well looks like the mailman loved me today as my P T A arrived...WOOHOOO
So guess what im doing tomorow.... Im gonna get the howa i posted previously, was gonna get one with a boyd laminate stock but cleaning gear is important so the hogue stock will have to do(gotta look after it).

excited almost new gun owner

[WayneO]

That's brilliant news Mongrel
I am sure you are going to love it. One thing to check on the Howa, and its nothing to be overly concerned about because its an easy fix. Remove the stock and put some shoe polish on the stock where the barrel runs. Then put it back together without the screws. Carefully take it apart again and identify where the stock was coming into contact with the barrel. Mark these points on the stock and then either sand them down or use a dremel to clean it up. After that has been done, you should have no trouble printing key holes on the target.

[Mongrel]

Cheers Wayno, Puling the gun apart wasnt the first thing on my todo list lol, but makes sense to check if barrel is "free floated" not sure if that is correct term?
Will post pics when i bring it home

p.s. technical question, do all barrels have twist in them as the howa im looking at doesnt say it has the 1/10 twist?

[chrispy88]

Yeah mate all rifle barrels have twisted rifling. I dont think Howa offer different twist rates in the same calibre to so I dare say all their .308s would be 1:10.

The pic you put up is not the exact same I looked at, it had a black Hogue stock, but very similar. The one you have pictured has a fluted barrel whereas the one I saw had a standard sporter barrel. Hence the slight difference in price. The flutes will help the barrel cool quicker as they add surface area.

[Mongrel]

Thanks again Crispy, Well order made and is rdy for pick up tomorow.

Cant wait

[WayneO]

@Chrispy with regards to the fluting of a barrel

Fluting reduces weight by removing material. Since the major diameter of the barrel is unchanged by slotting the outside of the barrel here and there, the stiffness of the barrel is reduced very little. Thus, you get a lighter barrel that's almost as stiff as one of the same diameter that's unfluted. You've taken weight off without negatively affecting the stiffness, which is a big bonus because a barrel that is compromised in stiffness comes with a host of other problems and issues.

POINT OF CONFUSION: A fluted barrel will be stiffer than an unfluted barrel of the same weight. If the unfluted barrel weighs the same as the fluted barrel, by definition the unfluted barrel must be smaller in diameter. It's the diameter than influences stiffness. See previous paragraph.

POINT OF DISPUTATION: The greater "Surface Area" of a fluted barrel dissipates heat better than a solid barrel? Without having gone through the math, I submit that this is inaccurate. The greater mass of an unfluted barrel will take more heat to raise its temperature. The mass acts as a "heat sink." When you flute that barrel, reducing its mass, you reduce its heat capacity. Thus, the temperature will rise faster, and as such will rise to a higher temperature as heat is added to it by firing the weapon. If fluting did anything for heat dissipation, machine gun barrels would be fluted. They are not. Further to that, benchrester shooters would only shoot fluted barrels; they don't, unless they are trying to reduce weight for different categories.

[chrispy88]

Yes and no WayneO. I agree about negligible difference in stiffness, but depends on the design of the barrel and flutes as to whether it will greater aid weight reduction or heat transfer. A Howa fluted barrel is actually a bull barrel with thin flutes cut in it that greatly increase surface area and therefore heat transfer, but barely affect weight (at least this was the case 12-18 months ago when I bought mine). So if you ordered a fluted Howa thinking you were saving weight over a sporter barrel you might be disappointed!

That said, any flutes cut on a radius that is the same as the barrel radius will not change surface area and therefore not affect heat transfer, these will be just for weight reduction, totally agree. I should have been clearer in my earlier post and spoken about both aspects. Cheers mate.

[Gamerancher]

The main reason to flute a barrel is to reduce weight as WayneO says. It gives you the stiffness of a larger diameter barrel with less weight. Yes it will heat up quicker than a solid barrel of the same diameter due to the loss of mass. It does however increase heat dissipation due to the larger surface area compared to a non-fluted barrel of the same weight. Think of why a truck has a bigger radiator than a car. The problem with that is that it creates a heat mirage right in front of your scope, speaking from experience here. If you don't put enough rounds through it to heat it up to that point then the idea works well. If however you do fire a lot of rounds in quick succession you get the barrel mirage problem. In a hunting rifle situation the benefit of a stiffer barrel for the weight is an positive. In a competition rifle the heat mirage is a negative. That is why they aren't that common in comp rifles. We've all been there and tried it. If you see someone with a fluted competition rifle it is usually to make weight.

[Mongrel]

and here i was just thinking it looked cool :/
j/k......i didnt get this one for weight reduction i got it for heat dissipation and it was the option i had available being the impatient man i am
Thanks again guys for the input

anyways im off to get my new toy will have pics in a few hours or so(depends how long i drool at the gunshop)

Mongrel