Disheartened New Shooter

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Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 27 Jun 2016, 1:47 pm

Hi guys,

I recently bought 200 acres in Oberon NSW to be used as a hobby farm and thought I should get my Firearms license as well. After receiving it and getting my PTA I went to my LGS for help.
I have never shot a gun and had no idea where to start. It was e very daunting experience, I had to show my license from the window and they buzzed me in. Upon entering the store I felt as if I was doing something wrong. In Australia with all the negativity surrounding firearms without knowing, you think you are doing something illegal even though your not. Anyway I went up to the counter and was very confused and disheartened with the lack of help from anyone. I explained my situation and was left alone so I wondered the store and left. I asked one gentleman a question but he kept looking at his phone and didn't seem at all interested. I got really turned off from the whole experience.

6 months has past and I am keen to get into shooting once again. I sent off my PTA and am waiting now.

I would like to know what should be my first gun? a shot gun or rifle. I have pigs, kangaroos, goats, rabbits, hare and deer on the property and I would also like to do some shooting at a range in my spare time.

I want to buy once and keep in for as long as I can, so for example maybe buy one shot gun and maybe one rifle for hunting and one for target shooting and thats it, in the future I would also look into a pistol license.

I was looking into the Lithgow LA102 and an Adler A110

I would also need help with a scope and maybe other gear as well.

I watch Ozziereviews on youtube and has been great

Hope you guys can help and sorry for the long post

Kind Regards
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by wildcard6 » 27 Jun 2016, 8:37 pm

I can't comment on your experience at the gun shop, but I wouldn't shop there again if I were you. Failing that, write them a letter addressed to the OWNER describing your experience and see what happens!
As to what firearm to buy, from the range of animals you have listed, I suggest a .243 Winchester. It has long been described as an 'all-rounder' and with some justification. As to what rifle to buy, I have the highest regard for Tikka rifles and have never heard of a bad one. Straight out of the box, they just shoot brilliantly. The trigger is easy to adjust [read the instructions. You don't need anything except a 2.5mm Allen key and you don't need to remove the action from the stock to do it. It takes all of 2-3 minutes to go from the factory setting of 2kgs to 1kg.] If you buy a stainless barrelled rifle, you will find it easy to clean and if you buy one with a VARMINT weight barrel, you'll be able to shoot competitively at targets. Benchrest shooters all use .243 calibre rifles -albeit not .243 Winchester, they shoot 6mm PPC, but as a beginner benchrest/target shooter, you'll find it's a good calibre to start with and see if target shooting is what interests you from there. As to scopes, I'd suggest something like a 4-12X Variable of good quality. Avoid at all costs going cheap on your optics, because a cheap rifle with a good scope will always outshoot a good rifle with cheap optics. The 4-12 range is perfect for a hunting rifle, but you'll see that target shooters use MUCH more powerful scopes, because ultimately you can only shoot as well as you can see, but as before, 12X is sufficient to start out with and you can always upgrade scopes down the track if target shooting takes off for you. The simple rule of scopes is this... Spend as much as you can afford on your optics. Quality optics bought once will save you a ton of money too. I spent a lifetime of buying gradually better scopes until recently I bought a Nightforce scope - and I have no need to even consider upgrading scopes now. Good optics are impossible to describe adequately, but when you see through top-class optics you just say "WOW!" Good luck and good shooting.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 27 Jun 2016, 8:42 pm

Harden the f**k up ....

Then buy a Miroku U/O 12 Gauge shotgun and a cheap .223 rifle.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Heckler303 » 27 Jun 2016, 8:54 pm

^ Ignoring grumpy pants, hi and welcome to the forum. If you're looking into getting a shotgun, consider maybe a coach gun/shotgun with external hammers, or if you're wanting to get into the whole lever action shotgun fad, maybe you'd be better off trying the Uzkon 887:

Image


It's said to be a lot better than the Adler, cycles smoother (I'd believe that, A-110s to me are very clunky), works pretty good, 5 shot tubular mag + 1 chambered, get a 28 inch barrel + chokes and you've got a shotty for a lot of needs.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by AusTac » 27 Jun 2016, 8:56 pm

Get used to the lack of service/care in general at most gun shops it just seems to be the way it is.

You have to decide what you want your firearms to do hunt/target then hunt what and at what range etc,

Then decide what you like in a rifle, look online, then go into a shop knowing exactly what you want to look at so all the spud has to do is take it off the shelf and give it to you, if your lucky that'll all go fine.

All the accessories will come, internet and what you see on the range is a ok place to see and learn.

Can't beleive you had to show your license through the window lol thats insane

Good luck bud,

Get a beretta ;) used or second hand
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Jun 2016, 9:02 pm

Welcome Mate,
First and foremost, forget your ramblings about "buying once and once only" (I forget your precise words)

In times to come, you'll see the foolishness of that sort of statement.

Next, I would find another gunshop flat out like a lizard drinking, and never look back.
There are plenty that can offer good advice, but just be beware of the hard sell, and never make a rushed decision

Any queries on the validity of advice from gunshops would be well placed here on the forum.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by MR. WINCHESTER » 27 Jun 2016, 9:03 pm

Heckler303 wrote:^ Ignoring grumpy pants.


Hey ...

Am just trying to impart good advice.

Can't be held responsible to your standards ....
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Squiddy » 27 Jun 2016, 9:04 pm

I havent worked in a gun store but I think most of what they deal with are people wanting to buy guns without knowing the process and they get snooty about it after a while. Or just people that want access to firearms that reaaaaaaally shouldnt have access to firearms.

The good news here is that the guys on the forum are pretty helpful and there are loads of old threads on how to get started.

+1 for the .243, I'd take a look at a Tikka, Savage or Howa.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by on_one_wheel » 27 Jun 2016, 9:35 pm

"I want to buy once and keep in for as long as I can, so for example maybe buy one shot gun and maybe one rifle for hunting and one for target shooting and thats it,"

:lol: I remember saying that. Just make sure you buy a nice big safe. They multiply you know.

I'd be shopping around at different gun shops until you find someone who's helpful.

The Adler is ok but it's a bit awkward at times especially if you're shooting from a vehicle
A double barreled shotgun is always lots of fun, sometimes it's nice to have that second shot ready in a instant without having to cycle the action.

If it wasn't for the deer and pigs I'd say go a .223 such a nice thing to shoot especially for new shooters.
A .223 is perfect for center fire target practice because they get great barrel life and ammo is reasonably priced. Pigs can be taken with a .223 with the right projectile and a well placed shot.
I'm a big fan of the Remington 700, they're very strong action plus for me ot just made sense to stick with one model type as to have interchangeable parts even between different cal's

As suggested, the .243 is indeed a good all rounder but some states have a minimum cal for deer which is. 308 if my memory serves me correctly.
Another possible down side to the .243 as a first rifle is it may cause some new shooters to develop a flinch especially if you use some of faster 100 grain loads, you don't want to risk doing that to yourself. It can take years to correct a flinch.

Typically, people recommend getting a .22 as a first rifle to hone yoyr skills.
They are cheap to buy, cheap to run and confidence building. You can shoot them all day long without regretting it the next day and they require very little maintenance as the barrel will not require cleaning.
The .22 will still be fun to use even decades after getting into shooting. I still love hunting rabbits with mine.

If you choose to start out with a larger cal, try to buy the lightest weight ammunition for it that you can to reduce it's recoil as much as possible. This will help you get use to it without giving yourself a fright ( that's what will cause you to develop a flinch ) A decent gun shop should be able to help you with this.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by darwindingo » 27 Jun 2016, 10:27 pm

Welcome and congratulations on what you will soon consider the best decision you made in your entire life. :thumbsup:

Looks like you’re off to a good start,

1. You bought 200 acres
2. You have pigs, kangaroos, goats, rabbits, hare and deer on the property (five of them I like eating) One has a tasty tail :silent:
3. You’re about to invite us all over for a hunt, ahh worth a try.. :P
4. You are here :thumbsup:

Btw, Good luck finding spare time for target shooting with all that on offer. :D Fill the freezer first.. ;)

Oh and what ever you do don’t make the following, a promise to the missus. :lol:

”I want to buy once and keep in for as long as I can, so for example maybe buy one shot gun and maybe one rifle for hunting and one for target shooting and thats it”

:drinks: and Be Safe !

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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Jun 2016, 10:34 pm

scaredyet wrote:Hi guys,

I recently bought 200 acres in Oberon NSW to be used as a hobby farm and thought I should get my Firearms license as well.

I would like to know what should be my first gun? a shot gun or rifle. I have pigs, kangaroos, goats, rabbits, hare and deer on the property and I would also like to do some shooting at a range in my spare time.

I would also need help with a scope and maybe other gear as well.

I watch Ozziereviews on youtube and has been great

Kind Regards


Hi

Guns are a tool and you will need a few tools, when you buy a safe get one that is 3-5x bigger than you think you need to save upgrading later.

You could use a .223 for the smaller species.
I would go the 7mm-08 over the .243 for the bigger ones.
Then you could look at a .22lr rimfire with Anshutz being the expensive good choice and a shotgun, I would go the Pardus over the Adler or even an U/O.

For scopes I reckon Nikon are great value at the cheaper end and Schmidt and Bender at the expensive end, for Red dot sights Aimpoint or Eotech would be the choice.

Then you will be looking for reloading equipment which you should research before buying.

Is it snowing in Oberon?
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 27 Jun 2016, 10:35 pm

Thanks for all your replies guys, I did send an email to the owner and he sent me a reply with his number but I never contacted him back, I just got over it.

I'll harden up next time.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by darwindingo » 27 Jun 2016, 10:42 pm

Nah, email him back and see if he will take the time to help personally, It may have just been a staff thing :unknown: . But Its his livelihood ;) may get a good deal to make up for it ? Worth a try..
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jun 2016, 10:48 pm

:welcome: to the forum scaredyet

Find a better LGS.
Sounds like you should consider,
22lr bolt action with scope
12g double barrel or repeater
223 or 222 or 204 bolt action with scope
243 or 308 or 270 or 3006 bolt action with scope.

The rest is up to budget and personal tastes.
Expect everyone here will have a different view.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by bigfellascott » 27 Jun 2016, 10:51 pm

What gun shop was it?

[PM me the details if you would, best not to post publicly]
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 27 Jun 2016, 10:55 pm

I have a budget of $1600-$2000 for first gun(s) and scope. A fellow member pointed out to me that 200 acres may not be big enough and I do agree to an extent as the property has neighbors who only visit during holidays etc.

Is there a law for when you can go out shooting on your own land say for example I want to go out at 2am. I got a caravan on site and was sleeping one night and at 3am was hearing gun shots and it honestly scared the s**t out of me because I didn't know which direction it was coming from and didn't want to take a hit.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 27 Jun 2016, 10:59 pm

I live in Sydney but yeah it's snowing I was there this weekend -4
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Jun 2016, 11:07 pm

bigfellascott wrote:What gun shop was it?

Doesnt effect me as Im in Vic. But perhaps that should be answered as a PM.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Jun 2016, 11:12 pm

Your bullet is not allowed to leave your property unless your neighbors have given you permission.
As the old sniper saying goes, 'If you hear it I wasn't aiming for you", the bullet travels faster than the speed of sound.
As for laws on this well I would expect that if this nanny state continues the way it has, vote LDP to stop the nanny state.

You have a reasonable budget perhaps a 1 in 8 twist .223 Tikka-Howa with Nikon Prostaff for starters, you will have plenty of opinions so personal choice comes into it.
Those who have Tikka-Howa-Remington can be like Ford vs Holden owners on what is best
Last edited by Baronvonrort on 27 Jun 2016, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by brett1868 » 27 Jun 2016, 11:13 pm

The Oldblokes list pretty well covers something for each occasion though I'd go 223 & 308 for the bigger center fires purely because the ammo is cheap and plentiful. Be aware that there are rules around shooting Deer and you can't be shooting Kangaroos without the necessary paperwork from the Govt. fella. Your initial budget of 2k should get you a reasonable 22LR and Shotgun which will be enough to get started. Once proficient with the 22LR you should have had time to save up for something decent in the 223 / 308 range. A 12ga is more then capable of knocking over rabbits, foxes, cats & dogs out to 50m with the right load so don't under estimate their usefulness.
Don't be discouraged by the attitude of the shop staff, they tend to think all customers know exactly what they want and something forget they need to cater to the new shooter who may not know all the ins and outs of firearms.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by stockliman » 27 Jun 2016, 11:16 pm

MR. WINCHESTER wrote:Harden the f**k up ....

Then buy a Miroku U/O 12 Gauge shotgun and a cheap .223 rifle.




Ha ha. I laugh.

Only because I'm in a similar position to the O/P . I walked into my first gun shop in the past month and it seemed like snarls and tumbleweed for any help I would have got. It was a pretty big name shop in Sydney, so I just walked out.I'll never go back. I went to another that someone recommended and they couldn't have been more helpful. I've been back twice now, spent $3700 and will probably transfer two guns into my name and order another in the next month with them.

And get a Beretta, not a Miruko. :lol: The difference between and Ferrari and a Toyota Camry.
Last edited by stockliman on 27 Jun 2016, 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Jun 2016, 11:17 pm

Here is the link for deer hunting license
www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/hunting-licences

You need to be certified to shoot Roos I think it's minimum .222 with 50 gr projectile hot loads or just use a.223 with 55gr
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by stockliman » 27 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm

Baronvonrort wrote:Here is the link for deer hunting license
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/hunting/hunting-licences

You need to be certified to shoot Roos I think it's minimum .222 with 50 gr projectile hot loads or just use a.223 with 55gr



TL;DR the whole post, but if he is on his own land, he can shoot deer to his hearts content without a game license.... in NSW anyway.

I don't bother with the roos as I dislike paperwork.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by stockliman » 27 Jun 2016, 11:33 pm

PM'd you scaredyet. Hopefully you get it.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 27 Jun 2016, 11:45 pm

I don't want to bash any shop because to their credit the owner did reply with his number to me but I just wont ever step foot back there. I am new to this so I don't want to offend anyone
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Hangfire » 27 Jun 2016, 11:47 pm

Safari Firearms at Bexley has had the best customer service in my experience, Abelas in campbelltown also has been good aswell. I went to some others in Syd that were less than good...
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by brett1868 » 27 Jun 2016, 11:49 pm

HPGS - Ask for Justin or Tim and tell them that Brett referred you to them specifically, explain your situation and you should be good to go. They do get flogged senseless with customers, I was there last Saturday afternoon and the place was jammed packed. I've found early Saturday morning (Before 9) is generally quiet or 3-5pm during the week.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by bigfellascott » 28 Jun 2016, 7:10 am

Just go to Gunsmoke in Bathurst mate, Daryl and Geoff are good fella's and are your nearest local gun shop from Obes - prices won't be as good as the bigger city shops but at least you won't be struggling to get served either.

The shops on Durham St next to Dan Murphy's.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by Gamerancher » 28 Jun 2016, 8:32 am

Don't get upset at being treated like s**t at "large well known gunshop". Unless you shop there once a week and know them by name, they treat everyone like that.
Last visit, I stocked up on reloading supplies, $2000 worth, and enquired about what sort of .22 match grade ammo they stocked. Shop assistant basically wasn't interested in speaking with me, picked up all the gear I had, dumped it on the check-out counter and walked off. Needless to say I haven't been back since. Pack of arrogant wan**rs.
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Re: Disheartened New Shooter

Post by scaredyet » 28 Jun 2016, 9:11 am

Thanks for all the feedback I'm overwhelmed by the help on this forum. I've decided I'll get a .22 for my first rifle and have a play with it and get used to shooting and sighting a scope in first, just getter a better feel for the sport then I'll be back for help on what's next.

So what will be a good option for a <$600 .22
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