Worst cartridge/rifle you've owned ?

[snag]

^
Did John Winston give you good money for it ?

Indeed. Added to what I got for my stainless steel Mini 14 and dirty old Bently pumper it financed the beginning of my SMLE/Mauser/Martini collection.

[Apollo]

My old Bently Pump earned me a lot of money and never ever failed culling Roo's, until I had to hand it in and never replaced it. Those days have gone so have the Roo Drive's so even though have the Cat C don't need one.

Sorry guys but the wrose cartridge / rifle I owned, well borrowed was in fact a 303 SMLE which I thought as a practical item was useless compared to what was on offer. Then the same guy I borrowed that from came out with an SMLE that had been re-chambered into .243W and I refused to fire it, plus I told him that he was risking his life if he did. So I'd say a .303 SMLE re-chambered to .243W as a death wish as the worst I've ever heard of.

BTW... That rifle was taken to a Gunsmith for inspection and left with that guy for destruction.... I hope.

[Heckler303]

Sorry guys but the worse cartridge / rifle I owned, well borrowed was in fact a 303 SMLE which I thought as a practical item was useless compared to what was on offer.

Mind telling us how?

[Apollo]

Mind telling us how?

For a start it's a "rimmed cartridge" with all it's faults, headspace off the rim. Rear locking lugs and springy bolt. Very low pressure rated action. Inaccurate, old antiquated design.

They had their "Hay Day" but that was 100 years ago. The world has moved on.

Fine for collectors that like old military gear, like black powder. Each to their own but to answer the topic, that's it.

BTW, I had a Sportco Martini .22 Hornet and I'd rate that higher than a .303. I still have a newer CZ 527 .22 Hornet which is a mile above but it's still a rimmed cartridge case with it's inherent faults. A .22 Rimless Hornet would be nice.

[Heckler303]

Mind telling us how?

For a start it's a "rimmed cartridge" with all it's faults, headspace off the rim. Rear locking lugs and springy bolt. Very low pressure rated action. Inaccurate, old antiquated design.

Being the current owner of 4 Lee Enfields, my father being the owner of a great many variants, myself owning many pieces of literature on Lee Enfields and gaining so much experience with them, I can safely say from my comfy chair that you must have acquired a Mosin Nagant dressed up as a lee enfield. What you just said is complete BS.


All of the Lees, Metfords and Enfields, were built to be battle rifles from the ground up. I have never been able to come across a bolt action rifle that I would rather take into battle than a SMLE. That action is undoubtedly the quickest to cycle out of any bolt gun, with a 10 round detachable mag. You put 10 men in a line firing one after the other against Jerry, it'll sound like you've got a vickers machine gun on your hands. By the time Jerry's got his bolt handle lifted, you would have already put 3 holes into his stalhelm. 'Springy bolt'. What the hell does that even mean? It's a cock on close, not a cock on arm-wrestle. .303 is also a very reliable cartridge, having it head space off the rim gave it greater resistance to muck.

'Rear locking bolt'. Yes, yes, so it has a rear-locking bolt mechanism. Not as strong as a Mauser, or a Springfield, blah blah, but if you got scrap of mud in either one of the front-locking rifles, it is not going to close without a fight. A rear locking bolt, plus having a cartridge headspace off the rim gave it greater resistance to muck, which is what made the Lee Enfield so reliable. If it wasn't reliable, then it would have been ditched long ago, and not still be in use by the Canadian Rangers or the Indian Police. Don't be so quick to jump to saying it's an antique when undoubtedly one of your guns is based off a 1898 Mauser. What's this 'Low pressure rated action'? What it takes to blow up any SMLE is a smidge behind the same as what it is to blow up a Mauser.

And one last thing, all of my Lee Enfields, the No. 4 Longbranch especially, never fail me on the range or in the field. It'll shoot cloverleafs into paper at 100 yards with it's 2 groove barrel, no problem, and 5-6 MOA groups at 300 yards without needing to be locked into a vice. If they were so innacurate, nobody would have even though of turning them into competitive target rifles.

Maybe if you could shoot without needing a bench, you'd might see how well one performs.

[snag]

Woo hoo!! You tell 'em Heckler! Not known as "the world's finest battle rifle" for no reason, hey? Maybe a bit of experience in Combined Services competition might demonstrate the virtues of SMLE's to Apollo? I'm a no.1 mk111* man myself, although I do have a few others. Love the history and the pure functionality of the rifles. Also, have used them successfully on every game animal from rabbits to camels. Showing my age now, but back in the day the .303 was top of the tree - every farmer had one because you could pick them up from any Army disposal shop for about $25 and ammo was cheap as chips. We cleaned up truckloads of pests with them and most of us oldies learnt to shoot with them. In my opinion, if you can't shoot well with an SMLE then you just can't shoot.

[bigfellascott]

love it!
the ol 303 was the first rifle I fired at around age 8 - they were the days thanks for the memories Heckler.

[Apollo]

I'm not going to argue the points of what other people like or dislike and / or why they like some rubbish. I'm not going to go back on what others have stated they consider the worst cartridge/rifle as per the topic that perhaps I disagree with and perhaps I like.
I got the bites as I expected...

[bigpete]

That's the point,what one person loves another may well hate. I must admit I was surprised that a couple of people hate 17hmr when I think its great ! I don't like 22/250 but I'm sure lots of people love them. For what its worth,I love smle 303's,shot my first deer,a sambar,with one,and have shot hundreds of animals with another. Also used a mates sniper version with open sights one day to shoot head sized rocks out to 450m, so I kinda think they're pretty good.
I had a Remington 7600 once in 30-06 that I nearly reckon was the worst hunting rifle chambered in the most overrated calibre ever. Just my opinion though.

[bigpete]

That's the point,what one person loves another may well hate. I must admit I was surprised that a couple of people hate 17hmr when I think its great ! I don't like 22/250 but I'm sure lots of people love them. For what its worth,I love smle 303's,shot my first deer,a sambar,with one,and have shot hundreds of animals with another. Also used a mates sniper version with open sights one day to shoot head sized rocks out to 450m, so I kinda think they're pretty good.
I had a Remington 7600 once in 30-06 that I nearly reckon was the worst hunting rifle chambered in the most overrated calibre ever. Just my opinion though.

[bigpete]

See I didn't find the action to be too rough, but the rattly forend , noisy action, and the badly placed safety just ended it for me. Plus I hated the stock, it was way to short for me. I'd tried the police version before ordering mine and that has a different stock. I actually believe I'd like the police version in 308. As for the 30-06 cartridge,I reckon the 308 does everything the same for cheaper, and what it can't do really needs to be solved by going up in calibre. But that's just my opinion

[Heckler303]

Those 7600's are crap, my brother got one in 308 and all it did was jam.
Finish was so s**t that he cut himself on it trying to cycle it.

At least it didn't end up tacticooled, right?

[Chronos]

Having shot them a few times I was always a bit underwhelmed with the .303 until I owned one.

I've got a BSA no4 and its bloody nice to shoot. Nicer than my K98 and probably my Swede

Would I choose one as my goto hunting rifle? No, not as long as I owned a .308 but I see why they were so popular after WW2 and why people wildcatted them. .25 cal was pretty common and I guess 6mm is an option too. As long as you load them to the limitations there's no reason it wouldn't be safe. Plenty of guys used to pull the .311 bullet from military ammo, pick out a few sticks of cordite, neck them down and seat a .25 cal pill for roo shooting

Chronos

[Heckler303]

Having shot them a few times I was always a bit underwhelmed with the .303 until I owned one.

I've got a BSA no4 and its bloody nice to shoot. Nicer than my K98 and probably my Swede

Would I choose one as my goto hunting rifle? No, not as long as I owned a .308 but I see why they were so popular after WW2 and why people wildcatted them. .25 cal was pretty common and I guess 6mm is an option too. As long as you load them to the limitations there's no reason it wouldn't be safe. Plenty of guys used to pull the .311 bullet from military ammo, pick out a few sticks of cordite, neck them down and seat a .25 cal pill for roo shooting

Chronos

I have a 303-25 I reload for in a No.4 custom sporter, 30 grains of AR2208 pushing a 87 grain softpoint at 2650 fps. Wonderfully accurate and only kicks like a .222 or .223. I would choose it over a .243 anyday. Used it at an Anzac day comp and almost won if it wasn't for the people using modern day sakos with heavy bipods.

[Gwion]

Used it at an Anzac day comp and almost won if it wasn't for the people using modern day sakos with heavy bipods.

That's weird.... I seem to recall out shooting you at 500m with a cheap Zastava mini Mauser in 223r with 50gn bullets and a cheap Chinese knock off bi-pod!

[Heckler303]

Used it at an Anzac day comp and almost won if it wasn't for the people using modern day sakos with heavy bipods.

That's weird.... I seem to recall out shooting you at 500m with a cheap Zastava mini Mauser in 223r with 50gn bullets and a cheap Chinese knock off bi-pod!

At least I brought something Australian..


Tht was at 200 and 300 yards. If it wasn't for the one flyer on the second round I would have had the smallest group. Well done for the crouching part, its the most uncomfy position imo. Wanna trade for a 10$ schoolbag?

[Gwion]

That's right. My mistake, it was 300. Still, I may not have had the smallest group but I had no flyers either and wasn't using any expensive 'modern' rifle. :p

[MalleeFarmer]

Just out of interest what's the worst cartridge or rifle/shotgun/pistol or combo of the above you ever owned ?
For me it was a winchester model 70 featherweight chambered for 223wssm. Rifle itself was lovely,but the light barrel combined with the super hot cartridge led to a gun that couldn't shoot a group to save itself. I couldn't get rid of the damn thing quick enough ! If it had have been chambered for a normal calibre I believe I would never have sold it. As it is I'll never own another firearm chambered for any of the wsm/wssm range !

Well well well.. I'm not the only one with a Dud M70 no doubt it's pretty but a .22-250 that struggles to get 1.5 moa is not ideal. Sitting in my safe waiting for the money for a rebarrel in .338 Fed

[MattyP]

.22 mag. Must have Been conceived purely as penis extension to make an inadequate man feel better about himself. Hahaha
Dose nothing more than what you can achieve with the ever dependable .22lr and at double the price. If the rabbit is at 100yards just stalk in a bit. LOL.

[BadBudgie]

788 Rem .222 just awful.

[bladeracer]

788 Rem .222 just awful.

You must've got a bad one, mine was outstanding. Wish I still had it, to the point that I regularly check the for sale ads hoping to find another one.

[Gamerancher]

.270 winchester PERIOD

[Gwion]

.270 winchester PERIOD

Why so? Seems very popular in Australia.

[Gamerancher]

Inefficient,excessive muzzle blast, excessive recoil, inaccurate, better off with 7mm, 6.5mm or .257. Just my opinion, I know a lot of blokes swear by them, usually 'cause they haven't tried anything else.
I've owned and shot rifles in over 25 different chamberings/calibres and a .270 will never again reside in my safe

[Gwion]

Fair enough. I went 7-08 over 270 for many of those reasons.

[Gwion]

I still want a 410 for snakes around the house; a cheap little old sxs.

[MR. WINCHESTER]

I still stand by .410 being the most useless mainstream cartridge ever invented

Am totally with you ...

However, 'another' just came to me .... ever tried to kill a rat ( or something ) with ratshot ?.

[Gwion]

I still stand by .410 being the most useless mainstream cartridge ever invented

Am totally with you ...

However, 'another' just came to me .... ever tried to kill a rat ( or something ) with ratshot ?.

Perfectly good way to ruin a 22 barrel.

[GLS_1956]

I still stand by .410 being the most useless mainstream cartridge ever invented

Try in a Taurus Judge or Smith&Wesson Governor and you might change your mind. Wicked on things that slither and I'd not want to face one in a close quarter shoot out.

[bladeracer]

Perfectly good way to ruin a 22 barrel.

How does lead dust damage a steel barrel when lead bullets don't?

I was told a few weeks ago by somebody that should know better that shooting birdshot through a rifled barrel will damage the rifling also. Steel shot possibly would if the wad failed and allowed the steel to contact the bore, but unwadded lead shot is not going to harm the steel rifling unless you're shooting it at very extreme speeds, and even then it'll just lead the bore and require a good clean is all. I will admit that a thoroughly leaded bore is a major undertaking to clean but hardly "ruined".

I have every intention of shooting shot through my .45 calibre muzzle loading rifle.