Big guns for SA

[on_one_wheel]

Unfortunately us here in SA can't own. 338 lapua or any rifle bigger, something to do with "too much fun" or "the weak bone structure of South Aussies"

Basically we can't handle the big guns here.

The .338 Win Mag is apparently ok as is
.300 Win Mag
.300 remington ultra magnum.
and some other large capacity rounds.

I'm thinking about buying something as big as possible in SA to try my hand at some long distance work. Firstly I'll be punching gongs and paper untill I am confident enough with my equipment and skills to take out pests at long ranges.

I'm not yet sure where my skill cealing is, somewhere between Matt Quigley and Elmer Fudd.

Anyhow I thought I'd kick off a thread about the pros and cons of larger rifles fir SA and what my options are.

So far I'm leaning toward the .300 Win Mag but im in the early stages of planning and very open to suggestions.

I'm keen to read what you guys recommend for work beyond 500 yards out to 1000 yards and possibly further if my skills permit.

[tom604]

i have a mate that wants to get into long range shooting,,i'll be watching with interest


ps: 300 winmag

[Noisydad]

So does that regulation include stuff such as .45-70s, .50-70 and the like? What about .54 and .58 front stuffers?

[on_one_wheel]

So does that regulation include stuff such as .45-70s, .50-70 and the like? What about .54 and .58 front stuffers?

Well I do have a .50 cal front stuffer here in SA so thetyre fine, .54 and .58 ....would probably be ok in a muzzle loader, after all 12 gauge rifled shotguns are fine.

I'm not exactly sure how they determine what is ok and what shall be restricted.
It must be based on balistic performance.

As for the 45-70 and 50-70 I have no idea yet.

[brett1868]

I think you'll probably be best served buying a 300Win Mag or maybe 7mm Remington Mag. It's no secret my favourite long range hunting cartridge is the .375 Cheytac loaded with 350gr SMK's @ 3072fps and pity you can't have them there. I had a Steyr S/S Pro Hunter 300WinMag that I sold to a mate for bugger all but it liked the Hornady 208Gr AMAX projectiles which are ideal for long range shooting. The only reason I no longer have the Steyr is that it was a "gift" and I already had a 300Wby Mag which shoots .25moa plus my mate had been lusting for a 300WinMag for ages so it got rehomed.

There's also the .300RUM or 300Wby Mag to consider...Weatherby can be hard to source brass for and it's not cheap but I like it

If you can get to Mildura this Friday / Saturday you can try a 50BMG and a .416 Barrett or if you can definitely get there I'll pack the Weatherby so you can see if that'll work for you. If I could get more time I'd head over to Ceduna but unfortunately Mildura is the closest I can get to S.A this year.

[Bridgy]

A friend of mine was also looking into .338LM and was told the same by a particular gun shop in town. However, they then mentioned that it was possible to purchase (through them) the correct action, and barrel, and then reloading gear. Apparently that's a way around the issue?

Just my 2c, it's just me repeating what I was told

[bladeracer]

I'd be looking more to the 6.5 or 7mm calibres for long range work.
.284 Shehane seems to be an excellent long-range wildcat.

I prefer 7mm-08 but it's going subsonic by about 1200 yards with VLD match bullets (F-Class only shoots to 1000 yards though so you don't need to load to the max in 7mm-08), I haven't looked at longer-range ballistics for hunting bullets yet but I've ordered some of Hornady's new 7mm ELD-M's and ELD-X's to do some testing. The M's are Match bullets, the X's are hunting bullets but I don't know what their designed impact velocities are which will dictate how far you can hunt with them. On the farm I can only shoot to 500 yards.

In 7mm their "current" 162gn BTHP Match G1 is .610.
The 162gn ELD-X G1 is .630 and G7 is .315.
The 162gn ELD-M G1 is .652 and G7 is .329.
The 175gn ELD-X G1 is .675 and G7 is .340.

7mm-08 will push the 162gn ELD-X at about 2750fps to about 1500 yards before going subsonic - but I doubt the bullet will function reliably at impact speeds that low. At 1000 yards it should still have about 1500fps and the mythical "800ftlbs required for clean kills" - roughly one-tenth the energy of being hit by a .50BMG at 1000 yards. From the Shehane though you can push that out to 1400 yards.
I can push the 175 at about 2350fps from the 7mm-08 which should stay supersonic to about 1300 yards. The Shehane though can push it past 3000fps and holds its velocity out to 1800 yards! Run a longer and heavier F-Class barrel and you extend the range even further (I was in the butts at Rosedale once when a world class shooter with a Shehane put two consecutive shots within about one inch...at 800 yards!).

They also do the ELD's in 6.5mm, the 143gn ELD-X G1 is .625 and G7 is .315. The 6.5x55mm drives these at about 2600fps. The .264 WinMag pushes 3000fps though which holds 800ftlbs past 1000 yards.

For the .300 WinMag they do the 200gn ELD-X in a factory load at 2850fps. The 200gn and 220gn ELD-X should be accurate to about 1500 yards and hold 800ftlbs past 1200 yards. The 208gn ELD-M at 2900fps adds 200 yards to both distances. I don't consider the .300 WinMag to be particularly pleasant to shoot though.

For accuracy you want the bullet to still be supersonic at impact range, transonic speeds mess up the stability. Army snipers use suppressors on sniper rifles as a barrel extension to gain some velocity and supersonic range.

[scotty87]

Pretty sure it's the 7mm remmington magnum that is popular with NZ shooters for shooting tahr and deer up in the tops. 7millakilla they call it. There was an Aussie bloke posting videos of long range hunting on YouTube with one a while back too.

[knowsnothin]

300 norma mag?

[NukeBOMB88]

This is gonna sound crazy but you could go for something smaller like a 6.5 Grendel which will get you out to 1000m easy. A guy at my gun club has a Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel which smacks gongs at 900m no worries and he loads it for cheap as chips too because he converts 7.62x39 brass to 6.5 which is a very very cheap way to do it

Edit: Spelling

[<<Genesis93>>]

Sounds like you're after a big boomer.... that you dont necessarily 'need' for the long range work....the smaller cals work well too apparently, the 6s/6.5s/ maybe 7s (I dont like sevens, there almost / but not a 30cal..

For the boomers, if they dont ALLOW you to have them, (so the thoughtful popo are just protecting your inferior muscular-skeletal build....)
Then source a 300win mag or a 338win mag, on a long action (theyre the original short mags on a standard length action normally)....

Then 'massage' the chamber, just quietly it would remain 0.30 or 0.338cal...as registered.. catch my drift....
(I might know someone with the appropriate 338 reamer )

[<<Genesis93>>]

This is gonna sound crazy but you could go for something smaller like a 6.5 Grendel which will get you out to 1000m easy. A guy at my gun club has a Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel which smacks gongs at 900m no worries and he loads it for cheap as chips too because he converts 7.62x39 brass to 6.5 which is a very very cheap way to do it

Edit: Spelling

Smaller? wash your mouth out...... GO HARD or go HOME

[Noisydad]

This is gonna sound crazy but you could go for something smaller like a 6.5 Grendel which will get you out to 1000m easy. A guy at my gun club has a Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel which smacks gongs at 900m no worries and he loads it for cheap as chips too because he converts 7.62x39 brass to 6.5 which is a very very cheap way to do it

Edit: Spelling

Smaller? wash your mouth out...... GO HARD or go HOME

Anything less than .40 cal is small bore!

[brett1868]

Smaller? wash your mouth out...... GO HARD or go HOME

Is 798Gr of CNC solid copper hollow point hard enough?

Cutting Edge 798gr, RWS Primer & Lapua Match Prep 50BMG brass.

IMG_2538.JPG (260.96 KiB) Viewed 4863 times

[<<Genesis93>>]

If your little finger doesnt fit in the muzzle.... its small bore

[bladeracer]

Is 798Gr of CNC solid copper hollow point hard enough?

IMG_2538.JPG

Load development must be bloody painful
What does it cost to shoot a hundred of those things?
I calculate that loading it down to 300fps would have a similar recoil to the .204 (as in none at all). But a 100-yard zero shoots four-feet high at 50 yards, and five-feet low at 125 yards

Do you know if I can own a .50BMG rifle in Victoria - without having to shoot competition?

[David Brown]

What does it cost to shoot a hundred of those things?

Probably about the note beside it..... Maybe more!

[Gwion]

Smaller? wash your mouth out...... GO HARD or go HOME

Is 798Gr of CNC solid copper hollow point hard enough?

IMG_2538.JPG

Is the 10 bucks for the next projie to be loaded?

[brett1868]

That round cost me $17.05 which is why I save them for special occasions such as yesterday, I got another year older yesterday so I spent the night loading these beauties

Anyway...back to the original topic...I'm still convinced the best option is 300WinMag as there's just much more availability of components and load information. OOW, I have a sheet of loads I tested in the Steyr that I'm happy to share with you if 300WinMag gets the nod so you'll have somewhere to start load development.

[Gwion]

Happy bday, Brett.

To the OP. When you say, 'long range on pests'..... What pests exactly and what would be long range? That might go some way to determining what cal and cart for yourself. Not that I know ****** about it but that is two questions I'd be answering for myself. We talking goats and such or donkeys and camels at long range???

[on_one_wheel]

Happy bday, Brett.

To the OP. When you say, 'long range on pests'..... What pests exactly and what would be long range? That might go some way to determining what cal and cart for yourself. Not that I know ****** about it but that is two questions I'd be answering for myself. We talking goats and such or donkeys and camels at long range???

500 yards out to 1000 yards and possibly further skills permitting.

I'll only be limited to whatever I can humanly kill with a given retained energy.
I have access to all pests.

[Gwion]

Well, with my limited knowledge, I'd be saying 338mag if going donkey/camel and 7mmRM or 300RM (or the 7mm 'practical magnum' wild cat from NZ: can push 190VLD at 3000fps http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowled ... tical.html) for up to goat size critters.

Purely saying bigger cal for bigger animal.

2 bob's worth.

[on_one_wheel]

Happy Birthday for yesterday Brett

If you can get to Mildura this Friday / Saturday you can try a 50BMG and a .416 Barrett or if you can definitely get there I'll pack the Weatherby so you can see if that'll work for you. If I could get more time I'd head over to Ceduna but unfortunately Mildura is the closest I can get to S.A this year.

I really appreciate the invite.
Shooting a .50 BMG would be a the experience of a lifetime for me but unfortunately there is no way I could make it out to Mildura this weekend.

I'm still convinced the best option is 300WinMag as there's just much more availability of components and load information. OOW, I have a sheet of loads I tested in the Steyr that I'm happy to share with you if 300WinMag gets the nod so you'll have somewhere to start load development.

How do you think the .300 RUM compares to the .300 WinMag for performance, availability of components and load information?

[bigpete]

Pretty sure you can own 375 hh and such still

[brett1868]

Simple enough...take all the suggestions so far and run some basic ballistics graphs to see which hits hardest at the ranges you're looking to shoot at. Punching paper at 1000m meters is way different to achieving an ethical kill. It'll probably boil down to your budget, Availability of brass / projectiles, Ballistics and what takes your eye. I've certainly been guilty of buying something based purely on how it looked / felt and thinking of the rest later. I've also done the opposite and bought purely on performance with no consideration on how it looked.

[bladeracer]

500 yards out to 1000 yards and possibly further skills permitting.

I'll only be limited to whatever I can humanly kill with a given retained energy.
I have access to all pests.

In my opinion, the range limit is more down to how quickly you can reach the injured animal to ensure it is dead or to finish it off, or even worse, to follow a blood trail looking for it. If your interest in long range shooting is simply whether you can accurately place the shot then shoot at targets that don't care if you miss by a couple of inches or more.