Buying a .223

[Macca666]

Hi everyone,

First time here.

I'm looking at buying a .223. I'm looking at a budget of around $1500 for rifle and scope. Probably wouldn't be shooting anything over 60grn

Just wondering, given my budget, what your thoughts would be on best rifle and scope combination?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Cheers

Macca

[sandgroperbill]

Gday Macca, we'd be glad to help, but could you give us a little more info? Will this be for hunting? What sort of terrain? Will you be carrying it around or sitting and waiting?

Lets assume its for hunting and you'll be walking around carrying it, you'll want something light.

A couple of options that come to mind are ruger american or howa1500/weatherby vanguard.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and what fits you best. Being comfortable with a good fitting rifle that feels right and balanced for you is going to be more important than some slight differences in the action between brands.

Visit you LGS, get your hands on a few, see how they feel and balance.

Scope is another thing altogether, we would definitely need to know more about the intended use before starting on scope reccomendations.

Hope this helps to start with

[sandgroperbill]

Oh, and general preference would be 1:8 or 1:9 twist, but not critical

[AusTac]

Howa, savage, lithgow arms and ruger are all producing decent rifles just to name a few, lithgow probably being the most expensive

Good walk around rifles that won't break your heart if you bang them up a bit but will also perform way above par at the range.

Can't go wrong with eaither of those

[tom604]

well, i have a howa 223 and with hornady super performance 53?grain (not going out to the shed to be sure ) it shoots sub moa,,other factory loads would shoot moa or just a bit over so you will have to find out what your's likes. as you are looking at 60gn or less i would go for a 1 in 12,,it will handle the bullet weight your suggesting (60 grain is on the upper limit of a 1 in 12 ) scopes ???? 4x12,4x14 no lower , lets you reach out and touch and you can always dial it down a tad and most brands wont break the bank unless you go silly. the only down side is that my howa is heavy and to use it in the field you need a rest,,be that a tree, log, or bipod ute gun,,no problem just my 2cents anyway


oops and

[Mitch]

I'd look at tikka for that money.

[NukeBOMB88]

I'd go Howa, they feel much better in the hand than a plastikka. I've got a Howa 1500 sporter with a Bushnell Ar223 4.5-18x40 scope and this rifle has taken many a pest out to well past 300m. I'd highly recommend this setup

[Mitch]

I'd go Howa, they feel much better in the hand than a plastikka.

It's funny cause I actually find the opposite.

And before anyone starts the tikka fanboy bulls**t let it be known I have got a howa, a weatherby vanguard, and a tikka all in my safe so I think I do have a fair idea of each one.

Money is a big consideration. Tikka for ~$1000 leaves 500 for glass (easily achievable).

Howa for ~$600 leaves $900 for glass, better glass

[alan j]

tikka hunter comes with a walnut stock

[NukeBOMB88]

Yeah I didn't mean to bash tikka. They are a damn fine rifle but for me the Howa just has an edge. There's a few things about it that I like over the tikka.
1. The double stack mag tends to be a better system in my opinion , saves space and can be top loaded easier
2. The extended magazines that you can get for Tikkas are to my eye a bit unsightly, whereas the ones for Howa rifles look pretty good
3. The plastic stocks on a lot of tikka rifles seem a bit uncomfortable for me, not sure why.
4. Howa rifles are better priced
With all that said, Tikka do seem to generally shoot straighter out of the box than Howa but that's just in my experience. With a tiny bit of work both my Howa rifles now shoot under 1moa with factory ammo which is more than good enough for hunting

[southwest shooter]

howa and a vortex scope .

[Mitch]

Yeah I didn't mean to bash tikka. They are a damn fine rifle but for me the Howa just has an edge. There's a few things about it that I like over the tikka.
1. The double stack mag tends to be a better system in my opinion , saves space and can be top loaded easier
2. The extended magazines that you can get for Tikkas are to my eye a bit unsightly, whereas the ones for Howa rifles look pretty good
3. The plastic stocks on a lot of tikka rifles seem a bit uncomfortable for me, not sure why.
4. Howa rifles are better priced
With all that said, Tikka do seem to generally shoot straighter out of the box than Howa but that's just in my experience. With a tiny bit of work both my Howa rifles now shoot under 1moa with factory ammo which is more than good enough for hunting

No doubt whatsoever.

You make good points re top loading.

Whilst I love my tikka, I like a top loaded rifle for hunting. The tikka is not.

I don't like detachable mags or their kits so neither of those has affected my choice, but may the original poster.

Also if hand loading the tikka tends to be fairly restricted when it comes to magazine length, another thing to consider.

I can happily point out faults on any of my rifles, that's why I have so many, to have the best of every scenario!

[NukeBOMB88]

Yeah I didn't mean to bash tikka. They are a damn fine rifle but for me the Howa just has an edge. There's a few things about it that I like over the tikka.
1. The double stack mag tends to be a better system in my opinion , saves space and can be top loaded easier
2. The extended magazines that you can get for Tikkas are to my eye a bit unsightly, whereas the ones for Howa rifles look pretty good
3. The plastic stocks on a lot of tikka rifles seem a bit uncomfortable for me, not sure why.
4. Howa rifles are better priced
With all that said, Tikka do seem to generally shoot straighter out of the box than Howa but that's just in my experience. With a tiny bit of work both my Howa rifles now shoot under 1moa with factory ammo which is more than good enough for hunting

No doubt whatsoever.

You make good points re top loading.

Whilst I love my tikka, I like a top loaded rifle for hunting. The tikka is not.

I don't like detachable mags or their kits so neither of those has affected my choice, but may the original poster.

Also if hand loading the tikka tends to be fairly restricted when it comes to magazine length, another thing to consider.

I can happily point out faults on any of my rifles, that's why I have so many, to have the best of every scenario!

That's the way to do it!

[Macca666]

Hi everyone,

Thanks heaps for your thoughts. I was actually considering a Howa 1500 based on a number of reviews I had read.

In answer to Sandgropers questions, the rifle will be largely used for a combination of whistling in foxes in hilly terrain and some target shooting with my son.

Macca

[NukeBOMB88]

Hi everyone,

Thanks heaps for your thoughts. I was actually considering a Howa 1500 based on a number of reviews I had read.

In answer to Sandgropers questions, the rifle will be largely used for a combination of whistling in foxes in hilly terrain and some target shooting with my son.

Macca

Ah yeah that's a good idea Macca. Ya won't go wrong with a Howa. If you are looking to shoot targets at say, more than tens shots per minute , then you should get a heavy barrel with fluting to ensure the least heat issues. But if you are looking to go whistling then that might be a bit heavy to carry around all day

[snag]

Went through this exact exercise last year - ended up settling on an Weatherby Vanguard with a Leupold 4-12x40 on a Gamereaper 1-piece mount. Works brilliantly for me and within your budget, just food for thought.

[Mule]

I have a tikka t3 lite and a Weatherby vanguard. Both are good scrub guns. My advice spend a bit more on the optics and get a reasonable rifle cos If ya cant see ya target ya cant hit it.

[Gamerancher]

Weatherby Vangard is a Howa.

[bigfellascott]

Hi everyone,

First time here.

I'm looking at buying a .223. I'm looking at a budget of around $1500 for rifle and scope. Probably wouldn't be shooting anything over 60grn

Just wondering, given my budget, what your thoughts would be on best rifle and scope combination?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Cheers

Macca

Have a look at the Howa Mini Actions too - light and compact so good to carry around the hills etc and can shoot a few targets for fun if that's ya thing.

[David Brown]

Ruger American is about the best bang for buck I can find. Get a good scope, my preference is Leopold purely based on warranty.

I fitted the new VX3i in 3.5-10 x 40 on my wife Tikka T3 Lite and it is awesome. I have for budget friendly purposes a Ruger American in 223 with a VX2 3-9x40 and that is the perfect blend of accurate rifle, great scope and not too much invested.Probably around $1300 or so.

Then it is loads......Siera Bulk pack Roo projectiles are the go. Great killers and cheap.

[NukeBOMB88]

Hi everyone,

First time here.

I'm looking at buying a .223. I'm looking at a budget of around $1500 for rifle and scope. Probably wouldn't be shooting anything over 60grn

Just wondering, given my budget, what your thoughts would be on best rifle and scope combination?

Your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Cheers

Macca

Have a look at the Howa Mini Actions too - light and compact so good to carry around the hills etc and can shoot a few targets for fun if that's ya thing.

I'll second this. The mini actions are pretty sweet. I'm saving up for a mini action in 6.5grendle for target shooting now

[bigtone]

I would recommend you have a look at the moss erg mvp varmint. It's cheap so you can treat it poorly without crying, has a 23" barrel and shoots like a laser beam with pretty much any ammo, has a pic rail standard, and best of all takes AR magazines which are double stack so you won't have bleeding fingers after a couple of thousand rounds. The action is just downright terrible but heaps of oil helps and the other upsides more than outweigh the horrible action. It is actually chambered in 5.56 nato so you can use that or 223 ammo. Put a redfield scope and quick detach mounts on it and you are still under $1500.

[bigfellascott]

I would recommend you have a look at the moss erg mvp varmint. It's cheap so you can treat it poorly without crying, has a 23" barrel and shoots like a laser beam with pretty much any ammo, has a pic rail standard, and best of all takes AR magazines which are double stack so you won't have bleeding fingers after a couple of thousand rounds. The action is just downright terrible but heaps of oil helps and the other upsides more than outweigh the horrible action. It is actually chambered in 5.56 nato so you can use that or 223 ammo. Put a redfield scope and quick detach mounts on it and you are still under $1500.

Should get ya self some valve grinding paste and work the action works wonders for s**ty actions like the mossberg had to do it to the wife's ruger as it was a bindy pita thing now it's as smooth as silk.

[northdude]

Went through this exact exercise last year - ended up settling on an Weatherby Vanguard with a Leupold 4-12x40 on a Gamereaper 1-piece mount. Works brilliantly for me and within your budget, just food for thought.

+1 on the gamereaper mount nice solid set up

[Rumpig69]

I bought a Ruger American Ranch 5.56 and put a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44 BDC under $1100 nice little shooter

[bigtone]

Should get ya self some valve grinding paste and work the action works wonders for s**ty actions like the mossberg had to do it to the wife's ruger as it was a bindy pita thing now it's as smooth as silk.[/quote]



The mossy has had about 6-7000 rounds through it now and most of the time it was full of dirt so that was my version of grinding paste. I put a patch through it every few thousand rounds and it shoots off for a few rounds and then when it gets back up to temperature it's like a laser beam again! Just adds to the fun not having to care about it too much! I always thought the whole cleaning routine was a load of hogwash and this rifle certainly proves it!

[Tank]

Yeah I didn't mean to bash tikka. They are a damn fine rifle but for me the Howa just has an edge. There's a few things about it that I like over the tikka.
1. The double stack mag tends to be a better system in my opinion , saves space and can be top loaded easier
2. The extended magazines that you can get for Tikkas are to my eye a bit unsightly, whereas the ones for Howa rifles look pretty good
3. The plastic stocks on a lot of tikka rifles seem a bit uncomfortable for me, not sure why.
4. Howa rifles are better priced
With all that said, Tikka do seem to generally shoot straighter out of the box than Howa but that's just in my experience. With a tiny bit of work both my Howa rifles now shoot under 1moa with factory ammo which is more than good enough for hunting

I'm not sure when Howa started producing rifles I'd mention in the same sentence as a Tikka....but my experience is they're chalk and cheese. The trigger on the Howa is horrible and doesn't seem to improve with fettling (creepy as). The Tikka has a tuneable trigger that is as inert and crisp as you could ever want.
I understand the pro's you've mentioned but I'm sceptical of the overall quality with the Howa.
I'd wager it's resale would hold 'a little' better too.
It's a person choice at the end of the day....but quality wins I reckon.
If you're gonna invest $1500.....there's good second hand T3's out there and throw on a Leupold and never look back!
Regs,
Tank.

[Tank]

I'd look at tikka for that money.

Amen to that Mitch.

[bigfellascott]

The Howa Trigger can be tuned and tuned very well indeed if you know what you are doing, you can take the creep out of it no worries again you need to know what you are doing, I have several Howa's with diff factory triggers in them and they are great triggers once set up right, I can adjust them down so light I can set them off with a feather literally but when that light they aren't really usable for hunting purposes as they are just too sensitive to use in such a state, you can use them on the range and they go great there (like a benchrest trigger in that regard - very light and crisp)

If you want a great Howa trigger send it to the Ebay Guy (google it) and you will see just how good his work is.

As for quality, no issues there either, I've had one for over 35yrs now and it's never let me down in any way at all, actions smooth (no binding etc like some actions) I love the top load set up, much easier than the Tikka in that regard, the bluing on the earlier ones is way better than the later offerings, that's about the only real diff between the older and newer versions that I can see and of course the updated trigger system (HACT) which isn't a bad trigger to use but can be made fantastic with a bit of Glen Coughlan (Ebay Guy) magic.

As for accuracy, can't complain about that either, with handloads they are fantastic and even with factory loads I got great results out of them (plenty good enough for hunting purposes that's for sure) I generally don't buy the complete firearm, I just buy the barreled action and drop em in Boyds Stocks as a rule (don't like plastic stocks).













Not bad for a action that costs around $450 at the time and one of the rifles that produced some of those results cost me $450 complete (minus scope) and one cost me $780 including scope (Nikon Prostaff and Game Reaper 1pc Mounts) and postage

[bigfellascott]

Yeah I didn't mean to bash tikka. They are a damn fine rifle but for me the Howa just has an edge. There's a few things about it that I like over the tikka.
1. The double stack mag tends to be a better system in my opinion , saves space and can be top loaded easier
2. The extended magazines that you can get for Tikkas are to my eye a bit unsightly, whereas the ones for Howa rifles look pretty good
3. The plastic stocks on a lot of tikka rifles seem a bit uncomfortable for me, not sure why.
4. Howa rifles are better priced
With all that said, Tikka do seem to generally shoot straighter out of the box than Howa but that's just in my experience. With a tiny bit of work both my Howa rifles now shoot under 1moa with factory ammo which is more than good enough for hunting

I'm not sure when Howa started producing rifles I'd mention in the same sentence as a Tikka....but my experience is they're chalk and cheese. The trigger on the Howa is horrible and doesn't seem to improve with fettling (creepy as). The Tikka has a tuneable trigger that is as inert and crisp as you could ever want.
I understand the pro's you've mentioned but I'm sceptical of the overall quality with the Howa.
I'd wager it's resale would hold 'a little' better too.
It's a person choice at the end of the day....but quality wins I reckon.
If you're gonna invest $1500.....there's good second hand T3's out there and throw on a Leupold and never look back!
Regs,
Tank.

Howa started making Military weapons back in WW2 from memory and I think still make them (machine guns etc) they also made parts for Sako at one stage and even made a clone of the Timberwolf I think it was (can't remember exactly now). If you have a good look at the Howa Action you will notice it shares a glaring resemblance to the older Sako Actions - I have a L461Ai in 222 and my 222 Howa is almost identical to it in shape of action, floor plate etc









I believe Sako took Legal Action against Howa for the cloning of one of it's rifles and that resulted in them parting ways.