Buying a .223

[Tank]

Didn't have to 'send' my trigger anywhere.....As good as any out of the box.
Perhaps it's better the Howa guys and us Tikka guys leave it at that.
I understand the potential and yes....those are some impressive groups....but as mentioned they need a fair bit of attention after purchase to come up to standard.
Great value I'm sure.....why buy 2nd hand at that price point?
Quality wins. In my book anyways.
And with some great glass out there at reasonable money....for 15 hunge....the Tikka would be my choice...(and is).
Regs,
Tank.

[Gwion]

My Howa (before I rebarrelled):

223rem HB, 2nd hand $550
Trigger by Glen the trigger man $60

Shot 0.8MOA with Rem SPS factory, 0.6 with my first ever hand loading loads.

Boyds Stock $170 delivered
Bedding compound and pillars $70
Trim barrel to 18"
Atlasworks floor plate and AI DBM $150
(Got a bargain through a forum).

Total: $1000. Saved at least $250 over a tikka (more like $500 for varmint). Learnt a crap load about accurising rifles. Changed powder and seating depth to shoot reliable 0.4MOA and the occasional really nice group.

Almost bought a Tikka when I built my lefty 223 but didn't want such a long action. Went a Zastava mini Mauser action and fitted my Howa barrel to it. Was a bit rough to start but some work with lapping compound after a couple of light passes with a file and is smooth as. Boyds stock (converted to left hand by yours truly), bedded. Total build cost around $1050. Will also shoot 0.5MOA with a tuned hand load but more like 0.7 loaded for smooth mag feed. All I'm missing is a DBM floor plate.

Waiting for Lithgow to release lefty 223, then I'll wildcat the Zasty.

By the way: rebarrelled the Howa to 7mm08 with Truflite light straight taper (read HEAVY barrel, also got the action tickled a little), rebedded into Boyds stock, new magazine for 308 cartridge family. Tune target load: 0.3MOA (best group was under 0.2moa but I can't do that regularly) Tuned hunting load: 0.6MOA COAL determined by mag length.

All I'm saying is, even with the extra work the Howa still comes out quite a bit cheaper than Tikka and even out of the box, with factory ammo, there are plenty of reports of excellent accuracy. Guy I bought mine off said he couldn't get it to shoot (saw a forum post, that wasn't his sales pitch). My guess is he didn't have the basic form to shoot it well.

[Cooper]

I'd be tempted to buy the Howa and spend the rest on better Glass.
I wanted a Tikka when I bought my .223 but ended up with Wetherby (Howa). It hasn't missed beat and I quite like it! I do have a Tikka 3x on order at the moment in 7mm 08. Cannot really go wrong. Just by whatever feels best to you!

[tom604]

howas do have crappy triggers but the ebay guy will do them up and they will brake clean and with no creep whatsoever and he can make them light as 1.5 lb or there abouts, been awhile since i had mine done and i forget what he told me

He can make em a lot lighter than that trust me but generally he makes em around 1.2lb which is a nice weight trigger for varmint work,safety still works etc they can be set lighter but they really aren't much good for hunting when they are so sensitive, you have to be real gentle when closing the bolt as you could end up with a slam fire if you set them real light, the HACT triggers aren't bad but are definitely way better after glen does his magic too em.

If you want to feel a s**t trigger buy a ruger, man are they heavy sons of bitchs but easy enough to tune up (did the wife's and it's very nice now - I changed the sear angle polished the faces and put a spring from a yo dave kit in it also, now it's usable before you near needed to hook up the 4by to it lol.

i have a ruger and totally agree with you but i have had it worked and she's a beauty now but for a really sh8t trigger you cant go past a marlin 22, put a bic pen spring in to lighten it up and she's only just passable for a bunny gun

[Tank]

Yeah. I get it. Yes the long action isn't ideal.....but it's slick. Yes the price point is there in the Howa's favour.
Like you I favour my own flavour....have T3's in 223, 6.5x55 and 9.3x62. The 6.5 is a Super Varmint and is ridiculously consistent and accurate. The other pair are much more recent purchases and I'm still playing with scope options but they're great pieces of kit....as is.
Good to hear of successes with them but amongst mates with them I've not seen anything like those results.
You gotta be happy with the price though....that's some value!
I'll still lay odds on the Finnish product being around when I'm done shooting over the Howa.
Regs,
Tank.

[superkel66]

I'd look at tikka for that money.

good advice! i have browning A bolt 2 and its good as well. nice and light for strolling through the paddocks etc but will shoot sub MOA everytime.

[bigfellascott]

Yeah. I get it. Yes the long action isn't ideal.....but it's slick. Yes the price point is there in the Howa's favour.
Like you I favour my own flavour....have T3's in 223, 6.5x55 and 9.3x62. The 6.5 is a Super Varmint and is ridiculously consistent and accurate. The other pair are much more recent purchases and I'm still playing with scope options but they're great pieces of kit....as is.
Good to hear of successes with them but amongst mates with them I've not seen anything like those results.
You gotta be happy with the price though....that's some value!
I'll still lay odds on the Finnish product being around when I'm done shooting over the Howa.
Regs,
Tank.

Yeah mate you got to have faith in your gear, that's why I've stuck with the Howa's - my oldest one is 35yrs old now and shot that 200m group when it was around 30yrs old I guess, actually shot 2 groups similar to that with it at that distance that day, I used it for rolling skippies back in the day and loved it that much I just kept buying em because they were so reliable.

All I know is I wished my Sako was as good as em, I'd feel a lot happier then about shelling out 3 times the price!

The trigger on the Sako is the worst trigger I have to use sadly, the Ruger was right up there with it but I tuned that one up in a matter of mins and now it's great to use, the Sako well that's one nightmare of a thing to pull apart and I just ain't interested in going there, I will have to Send it back down to Glen to have a bit more of a play with I think, it's better than it was but it's still not at the level of my Howa's sadly (hard to believe I know) but it's a fact sadly.

If I can get that sorted out I think it will shoot a lot better than it does now and I'm thinking of free floating the barrel on it (they are pressure bedded) just haven't pulled the pin on doing it yet for fear it may make it worse.

Anyway mate enjoy the Tikka's - I'd buy one but it would have to have a timber stock (can't come at the plastic crap stocks no matter what brand) soulless things are to me - I know they are practical and all but just don't do bugger all for me, they feel toy like.

The little Sako A1 222

[Tank]

I have no idea how people can't top load tikkas , I've never had a problem with mine or the other couple ive used. Tbh it just seems like a bandwagon complaint.

It's not hard to keep a mag topped up in any case.....but I agree. The occasional double movement and sure the port isn't that big....but it works. If you reckon you need to.

[Tank]

Ok Bigfellascott....can't argue with your experience and results with the Howa.
As for being a member of the 'soulless' brigade....I imagine you'll hate the MDT LSS XL chassis and Magpul hardware I'm eying for the Super Varmint.....that's another story though I guess.
Pic of my real shooting love.....when you gotta have soul and character....oh and a real nice trigger!

[bigfellascott]

Lovely mate, I'm not so much against the decent composite type stocks, just the cheap arse rubbish that comes on howa's, tikka's and the like, it's just cheap nasty rubbish IMO and completely soulless, it doesn't look good, it's just another way for manufacturers to increase their margins.

I call em "Wheelie Bin" stocks cos they are made of the same crap and belong in em

[bigfellascott]

Didn't have to 'send' my trigger anywhere.....As good as any out of the box.
Perhaps it's better the Howa guys and us Tikka guys leave it at that.
I understand the potential and yes....those are some impressive groups....but as mentioned they need a fair bit of attention after purchase to come up to standard.
Great value I'm sure.....why buy 2nd hand at that price point?
Quality wins. In my book anyways.
And with some great glass out there at reasonable money....for 15 hunge....the Tikka would be my choice...(and is).
Regs,
Tank.

I wouldn't call getting a trigger worked a fair bit of attention mate I just buy the barrelled action and drop em straight into a Boyds stock, send the triggers off to the Ebay Guy $60, throw some mounts and a scope on em and go out shooting.

Here's the first shots from my 204 Howa using Factory ammo (50m just seeing what it was like - Hadn't had the trigger tuned at that stage either)

I think this was the Rem Accutip 32gn (4 shot groups)


Federal 32gn (can't remember the name of them (4 shot groups)


Then tried some 39gn Sierra Bk handloads I knocked up to try (140m)


All shooting done of one of them plastic camping tables with a bipod up front and homemade sandbag at the rear, good enough to smack some ferals way out yonder and it does that real well

These two were silly enough to come out and check out what all the noise was from the Fox Pro and got a couple of holes in their heads at 273m (just sittin under a tree with the bipod restin on my feet for a little extra elevation as I needed it



Where I was and where they got knocked


This lot were all shot at ranges from 220m-255m from memory using what was left of that factory ammo I first tried in it.


Was sitting up on the hill shooting down into the valley below (first time hunting with it, was a great day out)


She's pretty handy at removing bunny heads - the furthest I shot one in the head was 305m from memory - she's only running a 3-9x50 Nikon on top which seems to be more than up to the job considering that shot was around 8.20pm (Daylight savings time) not quite dark enough to run a spotlight but only a matter of 10mins or so and we needed one, I was shooting off the bonnet using one of my homemade sandbags.

Even shot a rabbit at just on 300m using the wrong bolt! I wondered why I couldn't extract the fired case, it was because I was running the 250 bolt in the 204!

I really wonder what sort of accuracy I could get out of these things if I bothered with all the full on reloading stuff some fellas get up to and if I bothered to bed the actions.

Anyway mate enjoy the Tikka's - I reckon I will buy one one day for something diff, probably a laminated Hunter.

[Mitch]

Unfortunately it's turned very howa Vs Tikka, I may have started that, Woops.

Either way best thing to do mate is go to your local, handle them, shoulder them, work the action, and see what you personally like most

[bigfellascott]

Unfortunately it's turned very howa Vs Tikka, I may have started that, Woops.

Either way best thing to do mate is go to your local, handle them, shoulder them, work the action, and see what you personally like most

That's it mate, fondle all the rifles you like and buy what should suit you, end of the day you are the one that's paying for it and going to use it, most rifles these days are capable of good accuracy etc so you should be happy with whatever you get and end of the day if you aren't sell it and try something else.

[Gwion]

Howa, Zastava, Tikka, CZ, Browning..... Just few names to get a look at.

For the price of a Tikka Varmint, I'd rather step up to a Sako Varmint for an extra couple'a hundred. That's the only reason I got the Howa and Zasty; too poor to afford a Sako.

[Gwion]

To be honest, looking at current prices from some online store, the Howa is starting to ask a bit much for what it is. Yes it is accurate but a Tikka hunter (timber stock) is only another $200 or so and no matter what you say, the Tikka IS a slicker piece of kit. When you could get a Howa for $600 and a tikka for $1300 (heavy barrel), it was a no brainer to get the Howa. Now they are going for near a grand.....

One thing I will warn all Howa owners of is the bolt stop. It is held on by the tiniest screw that WILL fail if you slam that heavy bolt around too much. Had to learn to be a bit more delicate with mine after I replaced it. The good thing is the bloody thing ejects like a mutha ..... without having to slam the bolt back, like I was to start. If your Howa starts going all over the place all of a sudden, check the bolt stop because it even when the screw fails, the stop will stay in place but float around and foul on the bedding, sending any consistency out the window.

[Tank]

Unfortunately it's turned very howa Vs Tikka, I may have started that, Woops.

Either way best thing to do mate is go to your local, handle them, shoulder them, work the action, and see what you personally like most

That's it mate, fondle all the rifles you like and buy what should suit you, end of the day you are the one that's paying for it and going to use it, most rifles these days are capable of good accuracy etc so you should be happy with whatever you get and end of the day if you aren't sell it and try something else.

Great advice Bigfellascott. The brands are many and they'll all have their following.
End of the day....laying hands on them and summing up the fitness for purpose is probably the most important thing.
Regs,
Tank.

[Tank]

Not trying to go one up.
Just the first shots after bolting on my new Leupold.
8 shots to the left of the $2 coin was ripped through quickly and only waited 5min before shooting the central confirmation 5 shot group. Barrel pretty warm. I was sure I'd shank one of em!
I'm not sure I'll bother with the MDT chassis I have for it.
Maybe it can go on the 223.....

[happyhunter]

Perhaps it's better the Howa guys and us Tikka guys leave it at that.

Cheap sh*t.

[NukeBOMB88]

Perhaps it's better the Howa guys and us Tikka guys leave it at that.

Cheap sh*t.

Nah the Tikka and Howa are both damn nice guns

[bigfellascott]

Not trying to go one up.
Just the first shots after bolting on my new Leupold.
8 shots to the left of the $2 coin was ripped through quickly and only waited 5min before shooting the central confirmation 5 shot group. Barrel pretty warm. I was sure I'd shank one of em!
I'm not sure I'll bother with the MDT chassis I have for it.
Maybe it can go on the 223.....

Looks good to me mate, I wouldn't touch it, should be able to roll the ferals well with it.

[bigfellascott]

To be honest, looking at current prices from some online store, the Howa is starting to ask a bit much for what it is. Yes it is accurate but a Tikka hunter (timber stock) is only another $200 or so and no matter what you say, the Tikka IS a slicker piece of kit. When you could get a Howa for $600 and a tikka for $1300 (heavy barrel), it was a no brainer to get the Howa. Now they are going for near a grand.....

One thing I will warn all Howa owners of is the bolt stop. It is held on by the tiniest screw that WILL fail if you slam that heavy bolt around too much. Had to learn to be a bit more delicate with mine after I replaced it. The good thing is the bloody thing ejects like a mutha ..... without having to slam the bolt back, like I was to start. If your Howa starts going all over the place all of a sudden, check the bolt stop because it even when the screw fails, the stop will stay in place but float around and foul on the bedding, sending any consistency out the window.

The Howa Mini's aren't bad for price.

HOWA 1500 CUSTOM
20" FLUTED BARREL
HOGUE ALLOY BEDDED
BLACK STOCK
223REM 1 IN 9" TWIST
308WIN 1 IN 10" TWIST
About $600

TIKKA T3 VARMINT
308WIN, 5 SHOT
BLUED FINISH
SYNTHETIC STOCK
24" BARREL
About $1250.

Howa's 1/2 price compared to the Tikka, leaves you a lot of $$ left over for scope or reloading gear or even another Howa in a diff cal

[Gwion]

Yeah, I did see those short barrelled 'customs' but they are limited to 223 & 308. Other stores and other models are $900+ for complete rifle and $700+ for barrelled action.

[bigfellascott]

Yeah, I did see those short barrelled 'customs' but they are limited to 223 & 308. Other stores and other models are $900+ for complete rifle and $700+ for barrelled action.

Yeah you definitely have to shop around, there are some bargains out there if you look, I know a mate who bought a 3006 from em for around that price a couple of weeks back, cheap shooting in anyones language hey.

[bigfellascott]

I reckon the Original Tikka's will be cheaper to buy soon once the T3X or whatever it's called gets going (I imagine most will want it rather than the older version (the new version addresses a lot of those issues people had with the original T3 design (plastic shroud/small port/alloy recoil lug/hollow stock etc) should be an allround better package I would imagine going by the changes.

[scotty87]

Tikka real challenge for its t3x will be against the new entry level sauer 100. You can get them for around $1300 with two mags.

[bigfellascott]

Good point mate, they seem quite popular the Sauer's.

This one looks like a nice little outfit too.
http://www.sauer.de/en/products/bolt-ac ... tures.html

[Tank]

Perhaps it's better the Howa guys and us Tikka guys leave it at that.

Cheap sh*t.

Not a 'happyhunter'.......

[bigfellascott]

Some cheap options from HPGS

http://www.hpgs.com.au/#!specials/c21om

[Wes]

Not a 'happyhunter'.......

Yeah but CrankySod doesn't have as nice a ring to it

[MR. WINCHESTER]

Not a 'happyhunter'.......

Yeah but CrankySod doesn't have as nice a ring to it

Maybe - 'Blokewithgoodtaste' ? Lol