What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 4:37 pm

Hi guys, I am looking to re-barrel a martini cadet and want to know what cartridges can make it round and in to the chamber?

22 hornet OK
218 bee OK
222R OK
25-20 OK
25-35 ?
30 herrett ?
30-30 ?
32-20 OK
32-40 ?
357 mag OK
357 max ?
357 herret ?

I kind of fancy either a 32-20 shooting big bullets, a 32-40 or 357 herrett. I wondered if anyone knows exactly what length cartridge you can get in okay; obviously a tapered case could be longer than a straight one.
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Chronos » 30 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

anything up to .44mag, nothing too long or it wont load. a wise man (I think he's a member here now) once told me up to the pressure of .223 or the size of .44mag but not both

I'm doing one in .20-.222R IMP I've been told the smith runs a .204ruger reamer shallow then shortend .204ruger dies to suit. should be good for 32gr at 3400fps,


Chronos
.177 pellets through to .416 Ruger
User avatar
Chronos
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2287
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 30 Aug 2016, 9:48 pm

I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.
Tripod
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 277
Tasmania

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by snag » 30 Aug 2016, 9:52 pm

I have seen one in .30/30 and have one in .219 Zipper, which is the .30/30 necked down to .224.
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but personally I prefer the .30/30 Winchester.
User avatar
snag
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 138
Queensland

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 30 Aug 2016, 10:39 pm

And just to throw more confusion at you I've got one in 223 Rem and I run a rimless extractor....works a treat....and accuracy is great with 50 gun projectiles ...

Collector 1
More Brno's than you can poke a stick at..!!!!
COLLECTOR 1
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 225
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 10:59 pm

Is this the beast
Attachments
357-44 Bain & Davis3.gif
357-44 Bain & Davis3.gif (11.31 KiB) Viewed 2816 times
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Chronos » 30 Aug 2016, 10:59 pm

Tripod wrote:I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.


If I wasn't after a light weight varmint gun I'd be all over this

Chronos
.177 pellets through to .416 Ruger
User avatar
Chronos
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2287
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 11:00 pm

COLLECTOR 1 wrote:And just to throw more confusion at you I've got one in 223 Rem and I run a rimless extractor....works a treat....and accuracy is great with 50 gun projectiles ...

Collector 1


How much modification is needed to do rimless?

How much extra cash?
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 31 Aug 2016, 6:25 am

No work at all....take the old extractor out...new rimless version in....Graham Spraggon from Tamworth NSW has them. I think from memory they are worth about $200 odd dollars....I don't have a current contact number but he regularly advertises on Used Guns.

Collector 1
More Brno's than you can poke a stick at..!!!!
COLLECTOR 1
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 225
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 31 Aug 2016, 7:46 am

andym79 wrote:Is this the beast

That's the one, 44Mag necked down to 357. Common cases, Common projectiles, Making an interesting cartridge without the supply problems of the past.
Tripod
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 277
Tasmania

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Strikey » 31 Aug 2016, 7:05 pm

Chronos wrote:anything up to .44mag, nothing too long or it wont load. a wise man (I think he's a member here now) once told me up to the pressure of .223 or the size of .44mag but not both

I'm doing one in .20-.222R IMP I've been told the smith runs a .204ruger reamer shallow then shortend .204ruger dies to suit. should be good for 32gr at 3400fps,


Chronos


That sounds interesting, would it be similar to the 20 Vartarg?
Strikey
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 282
Queensland

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:34 pm

Would a 31-222R (.312") or a 33-222R (.338") be crazy?
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 31 Aug 2016, 9:15 pm

Have you looked into how much a custom one off reamer is going to cost and custom dies as well?
Tripod
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 277
Tasmania

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Gamerancher » 01 Sep 2016, 8:31 am

Seems Andym79 just wants a personal "wildcat" that no-one else has. If that's what floats your boat, good luck to you. Remember though, just because you haven't heard of it don't mean it hasn't been done before. Unless there is a distinct advantage in "wildcatting" something it can be an expensive and pointless exercise.
Just about every commercial cartridge has been "wildcatted", necked-up, down, lengthened, shortened, improved, etc within a couple of years of release. Some then go on to be commercial in their own right, .22-250, 7-08, .260rem to name but a few. ( Remington tend to pick up on popular wildcats)
Manufacturers do it themselves, .30-30 Winchester is derived from the older .38-55 for example. Make the new from something you already manufacture makes good commercial sense.
If you have bucket loads of old cases you don't use that you can turn into something that you can use then have at it.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1232
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 01 Sep 2016, 9:44 am

Gamerancher wrote:Seems Andym79 just wants a personal "wildcat" that no-one else has. If that's what floats your boat, good luck to you. Remember though, just because you haven't heard of it don't mean it hasn't been done before. Unless there is a distinct advantage in "wildcatting" something it can be an expensive and pointless exercise.
Just about every commercial cartridge has been "wildcatted", necked-up, down, lengthened, shortened, improved, etc within a couple of years of release. Some then go on to be commercial in their own right, .22-250, 7-08, .260rem to name but a few. ( Remington tend to pick up on popular wildcats)
Manufacturers do it themselves, .30-30 Winchester is derived from the older .38-55 for example. Make the new from something you already manufacture makes good commercial sense.
If you have bucket loads of old cases you don't use that you can turn into something that you can use then have at it.



There is an element of truth in that, and there probably is something almost the same as all my suggestions already out there. Often though you don't know its name!

Part of what is driving my desire for a wildcat is that with the exception of my 22cals I shot exclusively cast bullets; now at typical jacketed velocities that means a lot of the case is full of powder, but at cast speeds, you often find that a lot of the case is empty.

Cases like the 25-20 and 32-20 are good in this respect as you can pretty much fill them up! I am considering doing a 25-20 or 32-20 using a 1:10 twist barrel so that I can shoot a bigger bullets, but with the advantage of still filling the case unlike in the rifle version i.e 25-35 and 30-30.

However a 32-20 with a 1:10 would let me shot 100-200 grain bullets, but unlike the proposed wildcat 222 derivative wouldn't give me the option to push the big or small bullets faster should I want to. I guess what I am saying is that I consider the 222/223 case capacity to be a sweet spot "the goldilocks cartridge for my requirements". Only not if its propelling a 22 projectile, the bee or hornet would come closer to my unusual taste in 22 cal!
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Gamerancher » 01 Sep 2016, 10:13 am

Fair enough. I have a .300 whisper that I shoot cast bullets in. Works well. Your thinking would give you something like that. Any of the TCU cartridges built on the .223 case would work also.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1232
New South Wales

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by gunnnie » 06 Sep 2016, 10:49 am

A guru worth having a chat with is Alan Swan in SE Qld. He has been working on Cadets in various forms for at least the last 40yrs that I know of.
I'll be getting Alan to make up a 20-222R next year. There is also a Martini Henry big frame that I'm getting him to work over.
He also makes a rimless extractor for the Cadet.
As you shoot cast I would suggest a 25-35. This will fit the action and you could go with 120gn pills.
Alan also opens the threads up to accept Win Mod 92 barrels so you could look at 44-40 for some 240gn cast over TrailBoss goodness.
gunnnie
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 155
Queensland

Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 19 Sep 2016, 9:38 pm

Hi gunnnie, he is actually the guy I use to do my gun smithing, even though I live in Adelaide! Why, four reasons:

1. He seemed to know what he was talking about and seems to have work on just about every kind of long arm.
2. He has a full service set up, providing just about everything you could want, barrels, barrels contoured how you want them, bluing etc.
3. He has a large selection of reamers!
4. Even though he seems busy all the time, he manages to turn around projects in a reasonable time frame, ( a couple of guys I spoke to in SA either could do all I wanted, didn't have the reamers (and I am not talking about weird ones) or wanted a year to actually get it done!)

He has done done a 25-35 and 25-20 for me recently both to a high standard, he is currently doing a 218 bee, which i think will be done soon, the barrel was being profiled last week.

Anyway we he calls about my bee I will pick his brains.

In the mean time would a 357 MAX work in the cadet?
andym79
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 319
South Australia

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Centerfire rifles