Show me your milsurps

[No1Mk3]

G'day juststarting,
Always interesting to follow the story of the markings. I must, however, question the use of "last ditch" for a 1943 rifle, when German production was still in full swing, especially for a Sauer & Son rifle like yours. The stock is unlikely to be original to the rifle, as it does show later production short cuts including the take down hole moved to the butt plate, but even so it is far from the true "Volksgewehr" of 1945! These rifles, apart from their WW2 use, were hard used by the Haganah in the fight for independance and when found in 8mm tend to show that use. After rebarreling to 7.62 from 1949, they were often issued mainly as reserve rifles and so are found in good shooting condition. It will be a good exercise to restore yours, and as the stock is most likely a replacement (pull the stock off and check the channel for a serial number) it will not matter if you replace it also, Cheers.

[juststarting]

Re Volksgewehr - you pretty much outlined my thinking process, probably with a little more realism. Late 1943 is a stretch for Volksgewehr to pass the sniff test, but the takedown hole on the butt plate is a clue that made me think it could have been out of circulation for a bit. That's what I was going by (hole in the butt plate), but it could be a bit of a stretch.

Re: reserves and good shooting condition. I'd argue that reserves would be doing a lot of the shooting... Especially the kibbutzniks. That out of the way, initial inspection of the bore - looks excellent for any rifle, especially a 70+yo battle one.

Regarding restoration, not sure I want to do anything to the gun, exception being oil and steel wool treatment. The stock I'll clean up, sand and reoil, it's banged up pretty bad and has no visible markings, so I'll go to town on it.

[Daddybang]

A nazi made rifle being used by the Israelies. .love the irony!!!

[360noscope]

Just picked this one up

[360noscope]

Styer m95 straight pull now just need to get some projectiles brass powder etc

[juststarting]

Nice. You'll struggle finding components for it. I picked up a bunch from a guy on firearmsales.com.au. I think he may still have some, DM me if you can't find it there and I'll send you his details. Awesome little hand cannon.

[360noscope]

Juststarting I have 50 rounds of German ammo some 1937 some 38 but can't shoot fmj at gun range

[juststarting]

Uh, yes, I too stocked up, from Rebbel

[juststarting]

What kind of militant gestapo monster range is that where you can't shoot fmj? WTF

[360noscope]

Nsw at Seaham ssaa range.will have to get what I can of the German ammo for now sort the rest out as I go still doing some research on it

[Supaduke]

Need some better pictures 360, can't see it. I like straight pulls.
That sounds dirty

[juststarting]

Oh, hello.

[Supaduke]

I actually picked up a really nice Lithgow matching .303. last weekend at the Militaria fair in Altona. Fair price , very tidy. It all looks legit, wish I had done some more research on some of the markings , there is quite a few. One of the reasons that made it interesting. Just waiting on the PTA to come in the mail. It's through a dealer that prefers to use that paper system for PTAs . Should pick it up in a week or two. Will share some pics.

[juststarting]

Alright, I finally made time to pick up the third fun... Bentaz and No1Mk3 are disqualified from this round...

Pics later, but in the meantime, here's your clue.



Any takers?

[TheDude]

24 ga magtech so I’m guessing Martini or snider?

[juststarting]

You had to ruin it!

[Supaduke]

Lol. So we can guess, just not correctly

[juststarting]

No, but my mate, next suburb over does, so I'll grab the press from him when I start on it.

[juststarting]

Lol. So we can guess, just not correctly

I knew there were three people who'd guess it. TheDude, because there's an old thread on it where he suggests it. I just forgot who the third one was LOL. Bentaz, because he knew; and No1Mk3, because he is a freak and just seems to know everything. However, yes... Just not correctly

[juststarting]

For a while I wanted to shoot this little beast. The original tacticool battle rifle and beast of a cartridge, I just wanted to shoot it! Something inside me was like, you need to shoot this s**t! And a gentle toe dip into world of BP. The collectors auction was way too overpriced, I wanted a shooter and everyone else wanted a wall hanger and a looker, I suppose. I wasn't prepared to pay (cheapest one went for there) $1,300. This one popped up on UG and the guy was in Melbourne, so he let it go a little cheaper and a lot cheaper than $1300. I thought, screw it, if I don't do it now, I'll pay a premium for indecisiveness later.











If anyone can tell me about the markings, that would be great.

[Supaduke]

Very nice JS. If I hadn't stumbled on the Lithgow I bought, one of these in .303 was next in line. Elegant , lovely looking rifles. I'm not a caster so sourcing .577 ammo was problematic. Hopefully it's a decent shooter. Love the way the Martini's function.

[Bent Arrow]

Ohh yeah. Very nice. I would love to have a few shots through that, big step up from the 310 cadet......

[No1Mk3]

G'day juststarting,
From the 2nd pic, top to bottom, Royal Cypher of Queen Victoria / Makers name, the "M" in the BSA & M Co stands for Metals / Year of manufacture / Lock Viewers Mark, used until 1897 / Mark designation, in this case a Mk III / Arms Class Mark, a I for 1st Class, line regiment, a Class 2 would be a downgrade to Reserves use.
3rd pic self explanatory, War Dept / Birmingham Inspector / Mark Designation,
4th pic, on the barrel, left to right, Opposed arrows, Sold out of Service mark, 1st Proof mark, Inspectors mark the italic capital "B" is a Birmingham designation, 2nd Proof, Inspectors mark Birmingham, War Dept Broad Arrow acceptance mark. On the action, 2nd Proof mark, Inspectors mark applied after reproof, Sold out of Service mark.
4th pic, hard to make out but they look like the usual Victorian Government issue roundels.
I would highly recommend you buy Ian Skennertons "Small Arms Identification Series" booklet, No 15, which deals with .450 & .303 Martini rifles and carbines. It contains photos, exploded parts drawings, Armourers Instructions, parts lists and dismantle and reassemble info. It used to cost around $12, but that was a while ago. It is available from Ians website (if he's actually home!) or from Bunduki Books, which since Peter retired, is now owned by Pauline & Roger Mowbray of Northern Shooters Supplies, and the new website is bundukibooks.com.au, Cheers.

[juststarting]

Thanks. I also found the markings website, that answered some questions, this filled in the rest.

[Supaduke]

He knows stuff.

[360noscope]

Some more pics now I have time anybody got ideas on the sites or for reloading ex German brass thanks Ant

[360noscope]

Hope these are better pictures and I should have bought the araska that was there as well

[360noscope]

Hope these are better pictures and I should have bought the araska that was there as well

[juststarting]

He knows stuff.

Freakishly so.

[No1Mk3]

G'day juststarting,
45 years of collecting, study and using military rifles and handguns, picked up a bit of info along the way! Mostly what I've learnt is I have only scratched the surface, and there is a long way to go. Have a conversation yourself with someone new to collecting, and I think you may surprise yourself with the knowledge base you have picked up already. One thing I will say about my hobby (the wife says mania, but never says no to shooting them!), is that you should NEVER be afraid to throw off long held, cherished, beliefs in the light of new, and better research, that is concise and well developed, always look for more, Cheers.