Show me your milsurps

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 29 Mar 2018, 9:36 pm

Just had a call to let me know they're shipping me a rifle on Saturday.
They had sixteen, including two scant stocks and a sniper but now they're down to six I think.
Should be here next week.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by No1Mk3 » 30 Mar 2018, 3:49 am

To teach the good Burghers how to shoot, an original KKW Trainer. Sadly, it has been restored at some time in the past, but I have had so much trouble finding one I could afford I had to buy it.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by sungazer » 30 Mar 2018, 8:12 am

It looks really nice. I think I am more a restore nicely guy that keeps as found type. I like the wood to look nice the metalwork to be either nicely worn silvery or blue whatever colour other than rust.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Gun-nut » 30 Mar 2018, 7:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:Just had a call...

Should be here next week.


Mate that's bloody awesome! $1500 is great for an '03, even if its a rebuild. The originals are going for crazy amounts of money, and that's when you can find them. Keep us updated as I'd be very intrigued to see how it shoots. Congrats on the purchase.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 30 Mar 2018, 7:55 pm

$1600+ shipping so closer to $1700 by the time it reaches me.
I've seen a handful and they all want similar sort of money so I knew I wasn't going to find one under about $1500 anyway.
I have to order brass and bullets and load ammo for it but I will post my results. If it shoots as well as my Turk, Portuguese and Swede Mausers I'll be more than happy. I should probably drag all my milsurps out one day and shoot them all together and post some targets.
My first US milsurp so I still need a Krag and an M1917 for company.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by No1Mk3 » 30 Mar 2018, 10:24 pm

"I've seen a handful and they all want similar sort of money so I knew I wasn't going to find one under about $1500 anyway.
I have to order brass and bullets and load ammo for it but I will post my results. If it shoots as well as my Turk, Portuguese and Swede Mausers I'll be more than happy. I should probably drag all my milsurps out one day and shoot them all together and post some targets."

G'day bladeracer,
James River rebuilds are very well regarded, a friend bought an 03A4 of theirs, and apart from the ordinary scope it shot very well. It has since been fitted with a Lyman Alaskan and is a tack driver with good handloads. It should easily equal the Porto and the Turk, but the Swede? big ask. Still Andy knocked me out of comp with my Swede M41B, and beat a No4T and a L49, so the rifles are up to it, Cheers.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 09 Apr 2018, 6:49 pm

Picked up my '03 this arvo, very pleased with it.
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I can't see any collector value in this as it's basically a brand new rifle. New barrel and external metal looks like it's been Cerakoted.
Hopefully it shoots nicely but I won't be able to load any ammo probably until the weekend.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Supaduke » 10 Apr 2018, 10:47 am

Very nice rfle BR. I would dispute there being no collector value. Especially in Australia where '03's are fairly rare. They were refurbed professionally with good quality parts and as no.1 said are well regarded. I would think they will at the very least retain their value more so than a standard mass produced rifle and probably appreciate, albeit perhaps not as fast as an original. Either way, it looks good, hopefully it's a shooter.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 10 Apr 2018, 11:33 am

Supaduke wrote:Very nice rfle BR. I would dispute there being no collector value. Especially in Australia where '03's are fairly rare. They were refurbed professionally with good quality parts and as no.1 said are well regarded. I would think they will at the very least retain their value more so than a standard mass produced rifle and probably appreciate, albeit perhaps not as fast as an original. Either way, it looks good, hopefully it's a shooter.


I agree with all of that except the collector value, it is a beautiful rifle :-)
Collectors want original examples that carry their history with them, this is basically a brand new unfired rifle with, I believe, an aftermarket barrel? While I understand that collectible examples are rare here, so a collector might simply want something representative to fill a gap in a collection, this is not a collector's piece - in my opinion.

As for holding its value, I think that is an artifact of its rarity, not its collectibility.

As I said, I'm very pleased with the rifle, over the moon even :-)

If she shoots as well as she promises to, I might have to find some Service Rifle competition to test her out :-)
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Supaduke » 10 Apr 2018, 11:39 am

Come to the Anzac Day shoot at Little River
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 10 Apr 2018, 12:06 pm

Supaduke wrote:Come to the Anzac Day shoot at Little River



Hmmm...that is a good idea, would give me an opportunity to check out the range before turning up for the Lever-
Action Nationals the following week.
Is that something I need to enter now or can I just show up on the day?
Do you have any information about the event, like rules, competitions and such?
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Supaduke » 10 Apr 2018, 7:59 pm

Show up on the day. Get there about 9am. Small service then a 3p shoot and a bayonet shoot.

Last few years it's been
3p
10@300m prone
5@200m prone
5@200m sitting or kneeling
10@100m standing


Bayonet shoot
10@100m in 5 X 2 snap shoots

Then a BBQ lunch and trophy/medal presentation

Usually done by around 2pm
No free shooting as it's on a Wednesday and they open the range exclusively for the comp. Usually about $20 entry fee.

Military bolt rifles , no scopes or fancy after market sights.

We have an Anzac service at the beginning , raise the flag , say the ode etc.

It's an enjoyable way to spend Anzac Day. This will be my fourth and I really like it. All are welcome including unlicensed tag alongs.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 10 Apr 2018, 8:13 pm

Supaduke wrote:Show up on the day. Get there about 9am. Small service then a 3p shoot and a bayonet shoot.

Last few years it's been
3p
10@300m prone
5@200m prone
5@200m sitting or kneeling
10@100m standing


Bayonet shoot
10@100m in 5 X 2 snap shoots

Then a BBQ lunch and trophy/medal presentation

Usually done by around 2pm
No free shooting as it's on a Wednesday and they open the range exclusively for the comp. Usually about $20 entry fee.

Military bolt rifles , no scopes or fancy after market sights.

We have an Anzac service at the beginning , raise the flag , say the ode etc.

It's an enjoyable way to spend Anzac Day. This will be my fourth and I really like it. All are welcome including unlicensed tag alongs.


It sounds pretty relaxed :-)
Are you able to shoot it with multiple rifles?
My M38 Swede is probably the most accurate of my milsurps, but I'd love to try it with the 6.5mm Carcano Short Rifle purely for kicks :-)

Do you know the target dimensions so I can do some practicing this week?
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Supaduke » 10 Apr 2018, 8:26 pm

I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure there is a standard No.1 MkIII class and an open class. As well as the bayonet class.

You can only enter one rifle in each comp.(otherwise we would be there all day if everyone was shooting multiple rifles). I'm not sure if you can enter the standard .303 and open class or just one or the other.

No.1 is a bit more knowledgeable on the rules, he might be able to clarify.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by No1Mk3 » 11 Apr 2018, 6:16 am

G'day bladeracer,
It is usual at ANZAC to shoot one rifle for 3P and one for the bayonet. However, there is almost always a spare spot in the last detail that you can shoot another rifle, but only your 1st shoot will count towards a prize. We shoot No1 rifles for the ANZAC Trophy, and any other military rifle for a prize. The bayonet shoot may be conducted with any as issued military rifle. If time allows there may also be a combined rifle and pistol event. We conduct this event to raise money for Legacy, and there is usually a raffle after lunch, so bring some coins, we generally raise around $1400 for the day and a cheque is presented to a Legacy representative at the next Springvale meeting. As for the targets, we use the standard CSD Core target, a 1200 x 1200 target having a 150mm V Bull, 300mm Bull, 600mm Inner, 900mm Magpie and 1200mm Outer, Cheers.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 11 Apr 2018, 4:05 pm

Supaduke wrote:I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure there is a standard No.1 MkIII class and an open class. As well as the bayonet class.

You can only enter one rifle in each comp.(otherwise we would be there all day if everyone was shooting multiple rifles). I'm not sure if you can enter the standard .303 and open class or just one or the other.

No.1 is a bit more knowledgeable on the rules, he might be able to clarify.


Just seems a forty-round competition is pretty light for a six-hour return trip :-)
Although I do intend to get a No.1 MkIII, I currently only have the No.4 Mk1*, although it does have a spike on the end :-)
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 11 Apr 2018, 4:10 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day bladeracer,
It is usual at ANZAC to shoot one rifle for 3P and one for the bayonet. However, there is almost always a spare spot in the last detail that you can shoot another rifle, but only your 1st shoot will count towards a prize. We shoot No1 rifles for the ANZAC Trophy, and any other military rifle for a prize. The bayonet shoot may be conducted with any as issued military rifle. If time allows there may also be a combined rifle and pistol event. We conduct this event to raise money for Legacy, and there is usually a raffle after lunch, so bring some coins, we generally raise around $1400 for the day and a cheque is presented to a Legacy representative at the next Springvale meeting. As for the targets, we use the standard CSD Core target, a 1200 x 1200 target having a 150mm V Bull, 300mm Bull, 600mm Inner, 900mm Magpie and 1200mm Outer, Cheers.


Thanks No.1, I'll make up a target and do some practicing with all my milsurps to see which is most capable. I only have bayonets on the No.4 and the M91/30 at the moment.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 11 Apr 2018, 6:24 pm

bladeracer wrote:Thanks No.1, I'll make up a target and do some practicing with all my milsurps to see which is most capable. I only have bayonets on the No.4 and the M91/30 at the moment.


I mentioned the bayonet shoot to my local this arvo and I now have a Mk9 blade for the No.4 as well :-)
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bigrich » 11 Apr 2018, 7:07 pm

hey BR, noticed you said you have a m38. is it a husky or a reworked gustav ? what sort of groups do you get at 100 and what load do you use in it ?
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 11 Apr 2018, 7:43 pm

bigrich wrote:hey BR, noticed you said you have a m38. is it a husky or a reworked gustav ? what sort of groups do you get at 100 and what load do you use in it ?


Husky with the turned-down bolt handle, and bridge mount.
I use the 95gn VMax and the 140gn SST.
The 95gn on 8gn of Trailboss is subsonic but good for MoA at 100m.
On 41.5gn of AR2206H the 95gn right around 3000fps and still holds MoA at 100m.
I haven't completed load development with the 140gn but 34-35gn of AR2206H is looking good.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bigrich » 11 Apr 2018, 8:06 pm

thanks BR, i got a m96 1909 gustav, looking at having a crack at millitary shoot this weekend. fitted a taller front sight and filed it down to give 2.7" high at 100.also narrowed it slightly to help my eyes. 49 yrs old and wearing glasses doesn't mix to well with old mauser millitary sights. not sure if modifying the sights is allowed, but at least i can shoot it well. used my favorite hunting ammo , norma 156gr vulkans and shot a 2." group at 100.with not much practice and my eyes, impressed the hell out of me. s&b fmj not so good.3.5" at 100. might get some sako hp target just for kicks to see what it will do.be a couple of weeks till i buy powder ,projectiles etc. will be loading for my mod 70 winchester hunter as well so i'll get lots of use out of 6.5 swede. you got me thinking about a m38 now. had one 30 years ago and could just about outshoot all my mates scoped rifles. your a bad influence BR, bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 11 Apr 2018, 8:48 pm

bigrich wrote:thanks BR, i got a m96 1909 gustav, looking at having a crack at millitary shoot this weekend. fitted a taller front sight and filed it down to give 2.7" high at 100.also narrowed it slightly to help my eyes. 49 yrs old and wearing glasses doesn't mix to well with old mauser millitary sights. not sure if modifying the sights is allowed, but at least i can shoot it well. used my favorite hunting ammo , norma 156gr vulkans and shot a 2." group at 100.with not much practice and my eyes, impressed the hell out of me. s&b fmj not so good.3.5" at 100. might get some sako hp target just for kicks to see what it will do.be a couple of weeks till i buy powder ,projectiles etc. will be loading for my mod 70 winchester hunter as well so i'll get lots of use out of 6.5 swede. you got me thinking about a m38 now. had one 30 years ago and could just about outshoot all my mates scoped rifles. your a bad influence BR, bad. :lol: :lol: :lol:


2" at 100m with military open sights sounds pretty damned good to me.
I have to remove the scope and see how well I can shoot mine with the open sights.
I bought a sporterised (modern stock, bridge mount, no sights, and bolt handle turned down) M96 Carl Gustav when I was a kid (Fuller Firearms - $159). It was amazingly accurate but I just didn't enjoy shooting it much, it didn't feel at all like a milsurp should. So I sold it and found an original M38 Carl Gustav with the straight bolt handle (also Fullers but $99) which I just loved :-)
Now I have an M38 ($800 now!) that is drilled and tapped so I have the milsurp experience but can also throw a scope on for precision shooting. It's a heavy mongrel though :-)
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bigrich » 12 Apr 2018, 4:41 am

nothing wrong with a bit of weight to make a rifle more pleasant to shoot. i actually like shooting my swede over my winchester. the stock fits me real well and the two stage trigger is very predictable. not that my winnie is a bad thing. my favorite "go to" rifle. some of my mates give me crap about the weight of my winchester when we are out stalking ( they have t3's ) i tell them to harden up, our grandfathers carried brens up and down mountains in ww2. :lol: i used a m38 with open sights as a hunting rifle 30 yrs ago, they can do the job i'll tell ya :thumbsup:
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Growler » 14 Apr 2018, 12:37 pm

All matching # Lee Enfield No1 Mk111 1916 and still shooting well
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Heckler303 » 15 Apr 2018, 9:56 am

That looks like it needs a good clean. Warm soapy water on that stock perhaps?
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Growler » 15 Apr 2018, 11:10 am

Heckler303 wrote:That looks like it needs a good clean. Warm soapy water on that stock perhaps?


You're right, probably wouldn't hurt. Its looked like that since it was bought around 1991. Being matching numbers I've never wanted to touch anything apart from barrel and action. Obviously the top woodwork was replaced at some stage.
Just the necessity
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 17 Apr 2018, 6:55 pm

Gun-nut wrote:Mate that's bloody awesome! $1500 is great for an '03, even if its a rebuild. The originals are going for crazy amounts of money, and that's when you can find them. Keep us updated as I'd be very intrigued to see how it shoots. Congrats on the purchase.


$39 freight so $1639 all up including PtA.

The weather cleared enough for me to put ten rounds down the tube just now.
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I loaded ten Hornady 178gn BTHP's on 57gn of AR2209.
Lands are at 3.400" with this bullet so I dropped it back to 3.385".
Feeding is not great. The rounds sit low in the mag and the bolt rides over them. Poking the bullet down kicks the head up enough to feed the first, and then recoil usually knocks the following round into place. These bullets are very pointy and the third round down tends to catch under a lip at the front of the mag well. Also had two cases drop off the extractor. Hopefully just needs some shooting to settle down :-)
Looking at around 3MoA at 100m today. A smaller aperture would help significantly I think, this is like looking through a porthole - it's 80-thou, I'll have to find somebody that can 3D-print me a 40-thou insert for it.
I'd love to scope it as I feel it has excellent potential.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 28 May 2018, 6:26 pm

I picked up another M1904/39 today.
I really want an original M1904 but they're hard to find, so I thought it'd be handy to grab another /39. Maybe I can find a 6.5x58mm barrel and just convert the /39 backwards for my own use :-)

If anybody happens to stumble upon an M1904 Portuguese Mauser please let me know.
For reference, it looks a lot like an M98 with a straight bolt handle, except that the bolt handle is forward of the bridge, and the receiver bridge is split, like the Carcano. The M1904 should not have the recoil lug support bolt through the stock as that was done during the /39 conversion to 8x57mm, but by now I'm sure it's not unusual to find an M1904 that's had a /39 stock put on to replace a damaged stock.
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My first M1904/39 8x57mm

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Google image of the M1904/39 - note recoil lug support bolt

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Google image of the unusual Mannlicher-style bolt and split bridge
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by Heckler303 » 28 May 2018, 8:41 pm

Is the bolt on that rifle smooth? I hear that they have some difficulty opening and during camming.
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Re: Show me your milsurps

Post by bladeracer » 28 May 2018, 8:58 pm

Heckler303 wrote:Is the bolt on that rifle smooth? I hear that they have some difficulty opening and during camming.


I think they're smooth, haven't noticed any difficulty with either of them. Hoping to get a chance to test them both tomorrow alongside each other, as well as my Ankara since they're all 8x57mm. My first one is very accurate, but I think this new one may be a better collector piece as it's all matching numbers and has no prefix letter to the serial number. I'll have to do some research to determine the manufacture dates of both.
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