Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

[Patty93]

Hi all. New member to the forum. Been looking at a lot of content here for a while but only just joined due to being unable to get the information I have wanted from other hunter based forums.

I'm looking to purchase a new long gun. I have never owned anything larger than .223 but have dropped a considerable amount of rounds down range with .223 and wish to get something to get me out to longer ranges, especially with hunting.

I have a bias towards .308 as from what I have been told, the ammunition is fair priced, recoil is not too bad to manage, ranges all around Australia you can shoot it and the round will reach out to 1000m however will still be enough to kill a deer at up to 800m.

On the other hand I've been told go .300win mag, as it's a flatter shooting round. I'm concerned if I go.300winmag that the recoil will be hard to manage without a muzzle brake, and that this is not generally allowed on most ranges.

What are your thoughts guys?

Also. After this question is decided if what size round to push through, some advice on brand rifles to get. I've been looking at Tika and the Remington 700s paired with a 3-12x50 (or similar) powered scope.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Regards

Patty

[albat]

Never shot much past 200metres in reality those long shots at 800m would present 2 percent of the time you hunt i couldnt kill something with absolute certainty with any calibre past 200 IMHO, 308w without a doubt.

[sandgroperbill]

Welcome, Patty.

Firstly, forget this hunting at 800m thing. Yes it can be done, but really not practical for most.

Next is will it be mainly for the range with a little hunting or mainly for hunting with a little range work?

As for the calibers, really, rifle fit is more important. Yes, .308 will recoil less but if the rifle fits well, recoil won't feel as bad. Go shoulder a few rifles and see which one fits you best. Then look to see what caliber it is.

I also wouldn't limit yourself to .308 or .300. There are other calibers in that region that may suit your needs.

Personally, I don't shoot paper, I'm a hunter and use a .30-06

[bigfellascott]

First off welcome Paddy.

As for cals well that's a hard one to answer for you, I would suggest if you can try both and see what you think in regards to recoil/muzzle blast etc. As for shooting Deer at 800m, takes a lot of practice and skill to pull that off with a good degree of certainty. I would suggest you buy a decent brand of scope with the ability to dial up for those sorts of ranges (any good Euro glass should be up to that sort of thing no worries at all).

Me I don't have the skills to shoot things that far (never tried to learn) so I stick to max 300m or so as I feel comfortable shooting things at those ranges and I honestly haven't seen anything that I need to reach out and shoot that far out anyway.

I went through the same thing as you recently and settled on the 308 because it was a common cal that I knew I could buy ammo for relatively easily if the occasion ever arose (not likely but nice to know it should be doable if I have too) the 300's are pussycats with a break on I've found, haven't tried one without a break but hear they can be a bit hard on the shoulder but no doubt you'd get used to it over time and not like you are shooting heaps in a hunting scenario anyway.

I ended up settling on a Tikka T3x fluted in the end as I wanted something light weight that I could comfortably carry around the hills where it would be used most (mainly for pigs and dogs and maybe deer down the track) I wouldn't recommend getting some heavy thing as more than likely you will be doing some walking after the deer and the heavy stuff gets old fairly quickly unless you are fit and healthy I guess then it may not be such an issue but for a fat bastard like me I need to lighten the load as best I can and the other reason I chose the light option was there would be more often than not off hand shooting at moving targets so lighter wins that battle every time, you need something that points quickly and easily and the HB's aren't designed for that generally unless they have a short barrel then it's a little more user friendly but still not ideal I don't reckon.

The 308 is fine to shoot in light weight rifles, the 300wm not so much from those who have used them (only used one in a Tikka Varmint config and as I said it was fine with a MB on but not sure how they go without one but sounds like they can belt you a fair bit.

Anyway mate good luck which ever way you go and as I say if you find it's not what you thought it would be you can always sell it and buy something else (preferable to get it right the first time I know) but sometimes we don't and that's just part of life I guess hey.

[bladeracer]

.308 unless you reload.
Then you can get the .300WinMag and load it down to .308 levels, but still have the ability to reach out when you want to.
In most terrain, even 300m is further than you can get to quickly enough to finish off a wounded animal.

My neighbour shoots .300WM, and damn that beast is loud when he lets it rip! Out of respect to the neighbours he rarely shoots it here, which detracts from the pleasure of owning it in my opinion. I prefer something I can have some fun with whenever I feel like shooting it, without having to drive to a range.

[bigfellascott]

.308 unless you reload.
Then you can get the .300WinMag and load it down to .308 levels, but still have the ability to reach out when you want to.
In most terrain, even 300m is further than you can get to quickly enough to finish off a wounded animal.

My neighbour shoots .300WM, and damn that beast is loud when he lets it rip! Out of respect to the neighbours he rarely shoots it here, which detracts from the pleasure of owning it in my opinion. I prefer something I can have some fun with whenever I feel like shooting it, without having to drive to a range.

I just had a look at some of the prices for 300wm ammo, up around $100 depending on projectile choice so definitely a reloader cal for me, same with the 308 really, whilst it's cheaper I would still reload for it (already have the gear so might as well).

What sort of barrel life would one get out of a 300wm? no doubt less than the 308 but by how much I don't know.

[Supaduke]

.308 is the sensible choice.
The fact you are concerned about recoil levels tells me don't get a .300wm
800m will not present itself in reality.
I don't think I've ever hunted anything bigger than a rabbit at more than 200m.
Most hunters will tell you the same thing, 200m.
.300wm is very expensive to run.
If it's for bragging rights at the range......no one cares.
Don't fall into the trap of bigger is always better.
But.......
.300wm is awesomely powerful and very good at range.
If you choose to ignore the sensible path then go for a .300wm

[Patty93]

Guys thanks for the replies much appreciated!

Looks like I'm going .308 as it will give me the time to save some brass and better establish myself for reloading.

I've got the long range hunting in mind only because of the places I hunt and the fact they allow me to have the long shots. The fact I can get with 4x magnification accurate shots with .223 out to 450-500m tells me that with some time behind the bigger guns a 600-700m shot with the right force behind the projectile will allow me to make ethical shots out to that range. Does this sound unreasonable.

Noting that I want the gun to fire round down on the range to improve my shooting so that in the future I can make relatively long distance shots, but that I still want to hunt with the rifle throughout NE Victoria and out west in NSW, would you guys suggest going a heavy varmint barrel or staying on the lite side of things?

I am what I would consider to be a fit individual but do I guess to a degree plan to take shots from a well formed prone position with a bipod, but won't be ruling out standing unsupported shots in closer ranges.

[Oldbloke]

Never shot much past 200metres in reality those long shots at 800m would present 2 percent of the time you hunt i couldnt kill something with absolute certainty with any calibre past 200 IMHO, 308w without a doubt.

I agree with above.
308. 3006 and. 270 are popular for good reason..... compromise.

[happyhunter]

How much shooting you gonna do? The fun factor of blasting away all day at the range with a 300WM all day will wear thin real fast. The 308 doesn't rally start falling flat until 700 meters. If you want something in 308 that you can hunt with and shoot long distance that will reasonable hunting/range gun I'd look at building up a M40 replica from a Remington 700 because all the parts are easily available and relatively cheap.

[<<Genesis93>>]

308win is a lot of fun, and 'enoughgun' for most anything....though sometimes better to have a bit more oomph...
300winmag is just more of a good thing... but brutal in a lightish rifle. Big boom and a decent push...up to 2x recoil of the 308

You'll need one of each of course

Extra cost if reloading is there; say 40gr extra in the winmag per round, $45 per 500g of powder is 23c extra per round...

The trajectory in the field can be compared, Max point blank range gives a good idea of them side by side, driving the same projectile, difference being the velocity of the bullet;

[slickncghia]

Just to throw the cat in with the 30 Cal's.

I reckon if you wanna shoot long range accurately you will end up reloading for the flexibility.

If you are doing that it might be worth considering a 7mm. Perhaps 7 REM mag or 7-08 if you are concerned about recoil. Much higher BC in a weight range that you can still get decent speeds.

For 30 call you often have to go 190-200 grain projectiles to get high bcs. Which a 308 won't push fast. Whereas 7mm you get high BC from say 160 ish IE 162grain eld-x would do well from a REM mag to a good 4-500 real world hunting

As for deer at 800m. Irresponsible imho plus a 308 is lucky to have 500ftlb of energy at that distance

Fwiw I have 30-06

[pete1]

.270 (necked down 30-06) shoots fairly flat and fast, there pretty good but if you want 30 cal well might want to skip.

[BRNO_Bigot]

Hi Patty

If you're looking for something bigger than a .223 - what do you want to do with it?

The story of shooting game at 800m is really not (in my humble mind) a great one. The 300 Mag in it's many manifestations - 300 Win Mag, 300 H&H Mag, 308 Norma Mag, 300 Weatherby mag are useful for specialists, not for Joe Soap and co.

The 300's are NOT impossible to shoot - I have seen a neighbour's wife who loved recoil - she'd shoot a .330 Weatherby prone. I say nothing further about her tastes ....

Anyway, someone else has said there are certain calibres that are popular because they are useful all over - they are the .308, .270, .30-06. Now, I have a 7x57 that I love, but I cannot honestly say it ibetter than any of those in everything - in some, yes.

In short, I've been waffling - if you don't have an obvious need for anything else get one of the big three I have mentioned.

[happyhunter]

Remington 700 Sendero. 300WM. That's what you want

[brett1868]

You appear to be wanting to cover too many bases with the 1 firearm and whatever you buy will be a compromise. BFS nailed it on the .308 path as it'll drop just about anything whilst being light enough to grunt around and wont break the wallet on ammo. Getting out past 600m with accuracy takes significant commitment, check out Elmers YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEpwi6b1JQZvgQKNDUz93IQ to see how it's done on the much smaller rabbit targets. The 300WM is a capable round as are the 30-06, 300WbyMag & 7mm RemMag and will drop game at 800m with the correct shot placement. Many ranges wont let you on with the bigger 30's so unless you have access to land big enough probably best avoid them.
A good quality .308 with equally good glass would be a start start down the right path then get into precision reloading cause that'll yield better results in shorter time. Find a copy on "Accuracy and precision for long range shooting" by Bryan Litz and study it. There's a point where the reloading skill becomes more critical then the trigger skill.

[superdave]

My 2cents: 7mm08. close enough to 308, and cuts through the air a little flatter. An efficient round ballistically. A little lighter pill, uses similar powder weight etc. Kills stuff just as dead.

[Gwion]

Go a light weight 7-08. Weight for weight (bullet wise) the 7mm retain more energy at longer range than the .30cal. Yes, you can put a heavier bullet in a 308 but once you get into that argument, you then start going to 3006 and 300wm, etc, etc.. i shoot my 7-08 regularly against 308 and wind drift is significantly more pronounced with the 308. When I am dialling about 2/3 the wind value than the other 308s, it's telling me that margin for error in a hunting scenario is just that little bit better; same goes for elevation: it's just that little bit flatter. Recoil is really about the same.

When practicing at the range for LR hunting, it's not the tiny group or average score that counts; it is where can you place that first shot. Take your 2moa bullseye and place your first shot in there with some degree of consistency in different conditions. In my book, your max hunting range should be capped at around half the range that you are able to do this. Picking the shot in the field is much harder than doing it at a set range with flags and all the time in the world.

As you get better and develope more field experience, step up to a chambering capable of delivering more energy at longer ranges. But, from my point of view, a 7-08 or 308 in a well made, light weight hunting rifle will keep you busy for quite some time.

[Patty93]

Thanks for all the advice guys, its much appreciated.. Will have some thinking to do!

[Gamerancher]

Accurate shots from .223 at 450-500m with a 4x, I'm sorry, but I'm calling B.S on that one.

[bigfellascott]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

[bladeracer]

Accurate shots from .223 at 450-500m with a 4x, I'm sorry, but I'm calling B.S on that one.

Accuracy is defined by the size of the target you're shooting at

[bladeracer]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

No idea of cost but I doubt it's significantly more expensive than similar stuff, it's not exactly exotic. Just a .308 case necked down slightly.
Components are readily available and in enormous variety.

[bigfellascott]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

No idea of cost but I doubt it's significantly more expensive than similar stuff, it's not exactly exotic. Just a .308 case necked down slightly.
Components are readily available and in enormous variety.

Cheers mate, might be another option worth looking at too then. I know the cases were hard to get at one stage but maybe that's changed now.

[Gwion]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.

[bigfellascott]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.

OUCH! may be better to stick with the 308 then especially if you don't reload Are they sambar legal or not G?

[Baronvonrort]

Go a light weight 7-08. Weight for weight (bullet wise) the 7mm retain more energy at longer range than the .30cal. Yes, you can put a heavier bullet in a 308 but once you get into that argument, you then start going to 3006 and 300wm, etc, etc.. i shoot my 7-08 regularly against 308 and wind drift is significantly more pronounced with the 308. When I am dialling about 2/3 the wind value than the other 308s, it's telling me that margin for error in a hunting scenario is just that little bit better; same goes for elevation: it's just that little bit flatter. Recoil is really about the same.

Many think the advantage of higher ballistic coefficient is retaining more energy and less bullet drop at longer ranges, the higher BC with the 7mm-08 or 7mm projectiles makes it more accurate because of less wind drift.

[Gwion]

Yep. Sambar legal.

.284 = 7mm, .270 sambar minimum.

[Baronvonrort]

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.

Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.

OUCH! may be better to stick with the 308 then especially if you don't reload Are they sambar legal or not G?

I would buy brass ,powder,projectiles and primers if new to 7mm-08 and avoid most factory ammo.

In Vic they say minimum .270 with 130 gr projectile for Sambar, in NSW I think it's the same with 150gr.

[bigfellascott]

Yep. Sambar legal.

.284 = 7mm, .270 sambar minimum.

Even better, definitely worth considering.