Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Patty93 » 01 Jan 2017, 4:24 pm

Thanks for all the advice guys, its much appreciated.. Will have some thinking to do!
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gamerancher » 01 Jan 2017, 4:37 pm

Accurate shots from .223 at 450-500m with a 4x, I'm sorry, but I'm calling B.S on that one.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 01 Jan 2017, 4:46 pm

G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2017, 7:21 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Accurate shots from .223 at 450-500m with a 4x, I'm sorry, but I'm calling B.S on that one.


Accuracy is defined by the size of the target you're shooting at :-)
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bladeracer » 01 Jan 2017, 7:23 pm

bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



No idea of cost but I doubt it's significantly more expensive than similar stuff, it's not exactly exotic. Just a .308 case necked down slightly.
Components are readily available and in enormous variety.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 01 Jan 2017, 7:33 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



No idea of cost but I doubt it's significantly more expensive than similar stuff, it's not exactly exotic. Just a .308 case necked down slightly.
Components are readily available and in enormous variety.


Cheers mate, might be another option worth looking at too then. I know the cases were hard to get at one stage but maybe that's changed now. :thumbsup:
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 01 Jan 2017, 7:35 pm

bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 01 Jan 2017, 7:39 pm

Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.


OUCH! may be better to stick with the 308 then especially if you don't reload :thumbsup: Are they sambar legal or not G?
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Baronvonrort » 01 Jan 2017, 7:51 pm

Gwion wrote:Go a light weight 7-08. Weight for weight (bullet wise) the 7mm retain more energy at longer range than the .30cal. Yes, you can put a heavier bullet in a 308 but once you get into that argument, you then start going to 3006 and 300wm, etc, etc.. i shoot my 7-08 regularly against 308 and wind drift is significantly more pronounced with the 308. When I am dialling about 2/3 the wind value than the other 308s, it's telling me that margin for error in a hunting scenario is just that little bit better; same goes for elevation: it's just that little bit flatter. Recoil is really about the same.


Many think the advantage of higher ballistic coefficient is retaining more energy and less bullet drop at longer ranges, the higher BC with the 7mm-08 or 7mm projectiles makes it more accurate because of less wind drift.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 01 Jan 2017, 7:56 pm

Yep. Sambar legal.

.284 = 7mm, .270 sambar minimum.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Baronvonrort » 01 Jan 2017, 8:00 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.


OUCH! may be better to stick with the 308 then especially if you don't reload :thumbsup: Are they sambar legal or not G?


I would buy brass ,powder,projectiles and primers if new to 7mm-08 and avoid most factory ammo.

In Vic they say minimum .270 with 130 gr projectile for Sambar, in NSW I think it's the same with 150gr.
Last edited by Baronvonrort on 01 Jan 2017, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 01 Jan 2017, 8:00 pm

Gwion wrote:Yep. Sambar legal.

.284 = 7mm, .270 sambar minimum.


Even better, definitely worth considering. :thumbsup:
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by happyhunter » 01 Jan 2017, 8:33 pm

Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:G what does factory 7-08 cost and is it and reloading components easily sourced.



Only ever bought one box of 20 which was around $60. I reload for around $1 a pop; not counting brass cost.


$1 a pop! That's heaps. What type of projectiles are you using? I'm guessing premium match bullets?
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 01 Jan 2017, 8:38 pm

Yep. amax 162gn.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by duncan61 » 02 Jan 2017, 7:59 pm

Components have gone up a lot in the last 5 years.I was getting .224 50gr PSP in a bag for $17.00 a while ago and .243 for $32
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by duncan61 » 02 Jan 2017, 8:01 pm

It was under 50 cent for .222 and about 68 cents for .243.sorry fiddy cent
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 02 Jan 2017, 8:20 pm

I'm reloading the 22-250 for 34c (not including brass cost which was free anyway) bloody 204's around 60c possibly more (can't remember the exact cost now - most expensive part of reloading other than getting the gear together in the first place is the projectile, they seem to be pretty much the most expensive component in my experience (well you can get some cheap projies that work well and generally you buy in bulk to keep the costs down) but some of these new projectiles coming on the market that seem some what expensive.

I think my 222 was costing around 26c (been a long time since I bought projies for them) hence the low cost and the fact I buy the powder in 4kg tubs helps too and the same goes with the primers buy in bulk to save money.

I'm going to get a hell of a shock the next time I go to buy bulk components I know the prices have gone up significantly since I last had to worry about it.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by albat » 02 Jan 2017, 8:58 pm

If your not chasing stupid kind of accuracy and all that stuff you can buy bottom shelf stuff in the popular calibres that will hit a coke can at 200m every day of the week, drop a feral with authority ,and only be a couple of bob dearer than a reload , dont bother with it much nowdays , unless i need an excuse to get away from the missus for an hour or so :lol:
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 02 Jan 2017, 9:14 pm

That all depends were you live, Albat. Trying to get cheap, accurate ammo around here is near impossible; it's the main reason I started reloading.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by albat » 02 Jan 2017, 9:27 pm

Yeah Queensland is good for the el cheapo ammo makes a reloader get fat and lazy ha ha!
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Bigjobss » 08 Jan 2017, 2:13 pm

Bit late to the party but I went through a simmilar decision a few months ago and decided on a 300WM instead of an '06 based on the following set of circumstances:
1. I dont target shoot, therefore cost is not an issue
2. My primary target is Sambar, therefore assuming all things being equal and shot placement is constant a few extra ft/lbs up the sleeve cant hurt
3. Im not particularly recoil sensitive
4. Magnums make me smile when I shoot them
5. If I decide to reload in the future the 300WM would be more versitile

On #3 I get the feeling that the recoil of magnums seems to be overstated by a lot of folk, just get a gun that fits and hold it right and tight, ive been smacked around by a poorly fitting 12g shooting target loads than my 300.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 23 Jan 2017, 10:44 am

sungazer wrote:I am pondering on a similar line of thought although the 308 is set in stone. the quandary is can I use a target gun (savage 12 ftr) for hunting or as most Australian ranges seem to be max 600m is a 26 inch barrel Sako 85 varmint good enough or even a Sako TRG 22. Help required. The magazine capability just seems such a benefit to single loading.


A target gun for hunting is going to be heavy to carry around and a hunting rifle will rarely if ever be quite as accurate as a well put together target rifle (but you are talking poofteenths of an inch difference in accuracy from quality rifles).

My suggestion is this. If you have a budget that allows for the consideration of a Sako TRG, get your self a nice hunting rifle like a Sako 85 hunter in 7-08 and start off you target shooting with an Omark in 308 (will cost you between $500-1000). Put a 6-24 scope on the Omark and a 3-9 or 2-10 on the Sako. Both rifles and scopes will come in at about the same price as a Sako TRG with scope (or probably cheaper depending on scope choice).

Then you have a rifle for each purpose and different head stamped ammo so you never mix them up when you get into reloading (if you haven't already).

You will eventually upgrade the Omark if you get right into the sport but you will sell it on for as much as you bought it for or keep it as a spare.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by bigfellascott » 23 Jan 2017, 10:56 am

What sort of hunting are you doing that will see you shooting things out around the 600m or more? Personally I'd just use the Savage you have and see how it goes, you'll soon workout if it's going to suit the type of hunting you want to do with your target rifle. :D
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 23 Jan 2017, 11:03 am

bigfellascott wrote:What sort of hunting are you doing that will see you shooting things out around the 600m or more? Personally I'd just use the Savage you have and see how it goes, you'll soon workout if it's going to suit the type of hunting you want to do with your target rifle. :D


I think he was referring to shooting targets at 600, not hunting.

Hunting with a target rifle is definitely possible but you will need different ammo and a lighter rifle will be more user friendly. Conversely, target shooting with a hunting rifle is perfectly doable but has it's draw backs. I have seen guys at the club shoot well with hunting rifles and people shoot poorly with target rifles.....
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by in2anity » 23 Jan 2017, 11:18 am

Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:What sort of hunting are you doing that will see you shooting things out around the 600m or more? Personally I'd just use the Savage you have and see how it goes, you'll soon workout if it's going to suit the type of hunting you want to do with your target rifle. :D


I think he was referring to shooting targets at 600, not hunting.

Hunting with a target rifle is definitely possible but you will need different ammo and a lighter rifle will be more user friendly. Conversely, target shooting with a hunting rifle is perfectly doable but has it's draw backs. I have seen guys at the club shoot well with hunting rifles and people shoot poorly with target rifles.....


How about a super-short, heavy barrel .308? That SPS Tactical 16.5" (or the slightly heavier 20") springs to mind. Best of both worlds - accurate + light; you just sacrifice a little velocity + increased felt recoil. But that rifle still has 800 ftlbs @ 600m (albeit more of a rainbow, so you'd need optics with plenty of elevation). Then just load it down for punching paper...
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 23 Jan 2017, 12:08 pm

in2anity wrote:How about a super-short, heavy barrel .308? That SPS Tactical 16.5" (or the slightly heavier 20") springs to mind. Best of both worlds - accurate + light; you just sacrifice a little velocity + increased felt recoil. But that rifle still has 800 ftlbs @ 600m (albeit more of a rainbow, so you'd need optics with plenty of elevation). Then just load it down for punching paper...


There are a number of basic design and construction elements that put the target rifle (even a factory offering) that little bit ahead of even a well made factory hunting rifle. The major aspect is action design. A single port fed target rifle action is significantly stiffer than a hunting (or 'repeater) action with a gaping magazine port in the bottom and an ejection port on the side. Tolerances are also a factor; ie: just how well to all the parts of the action, barrel, stock, etc all match up. Yes, a hunting rifle can be worked to be incredibly accurate but the same amount of work put into a target rifle will almost always result in a slightly more precise shooting platform.

Yes, one can be used to do two jobs but neither will fill both roles perfectly.

As for the last part of your post: optics with elevation are not all you will need to hunt out at 600m (not that i have done it or plan to at anytime soon, i'm simply not a good enough shooter as yet). You will also need a bullet designed to handle the impact velocities on your target game, you will need a range finder to accurately calculate distance, a high level of wind reading ability, a lot of experience with that particular firearm and recorded performance data in various conditions to be able to accurately set up your shot, etc., etc., etc..
Also, you wouldn't "load down for punching paper", because, a/ you want to get as much data and experience with your chosen load as possible for shooting out further, and b/ you still want as much consistent velocity as you can to maintain BCs to give you reliable elevation and maximum wind efficiency for the chosen round.

So, again. One can do both but neither will be ideal in both situations.
How do i know this? I have been shooting f-class with a hunting rifle for the last 2 years. My theory was to use f-class to learn how to shoot better at longer or intermediate (out to 600) ranges for the possibility of long range hunting and to improve my closer range shooting (out to 300). Yes it is improving my shooting but the more i get into it the more i want a dedicated rifle for each rather than one that will do both... kind of....
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by in2anity » 23 Jan 2017, 12:48 pm

Gwion wrote:There are a number of basic design and construction elements that put the target rifle (even a factory offering) that little bit ahead of even a well made factory hunting rifle. The major aspect is action design. A single port fed target rifle action is significantly stiffer than a hunting (or 'repeater) action with a gaping magazine port in the bottom and an ejection port on the side. Tolerances are also a factor; ie: just how well to all the parts of the action, barrel, stock, etc all match up. Yes, a hunting rifle can be worked to be incredibly accurate but the same amount of work put into a target rifle will almost always result in a slightly more precise shooting platform.

Yes, one can be used to do two jobs but neither will fill both roles perfectly.

As for the last part of your post: optics with elevation are not all you will need to hunt out at 600m (not that i have done it or plan to at anytime soon, i'm simply not a good enough shooter as yet). You will also need a bullet designed to handle the impact velocities on your target game, you will need a range finder to accurately calculate distance, a high level of wind reading ability, a lot of experience with that particular firearm and recorded performance data in various conditions to be able to accurately set up your shot, etc., etc., etc..
Also, you wouldn't "load down for punching paper", because, a/ you want to get as much data and experience with your chosen load as possible for shooting out further, and b/ you still want as much consistent velocity as you can to maintain BCs to give you reliable elevation and maximum wind efficiency for the chosen round.

So, again. One can do both but neither will be ideal in both situations.
How do i know this? I have been shooting f-class with a hunting rifle for the last 2 years. My theory was to use f-class to learn how to shoot better at longer or intermediate (out to 600) ranges for the possibility of long range hunting and to improve my closer range shooting (out to 300). Yes it is improving my shooting but the more i get into it the more i want a dedicated rifle for each rather than one that will do both... kind of....


I don't disagree with you in the slightest Gwion - but OP wanted a single rifle that (somewhat) ticked both boxes, and something like the rifle I suggested could fill both roles satisfactorily. I might be wrong, but my impression is that he's not competing F class like you - he just wanted a rifle that he could plink with, occasionally really reach out with (at the range), yet also comfortably (and practically) hunt with - if you operate within your limits, you don't need all that gear you suggested to do that.

With regard to having two different loads, I disagree with your statement that you "wouldn't" do it. The reason I disagree with that statement is because it's what I do myself with my 30/30 (and have been doing for many many years, off-the-back of shooting fullbore target in my teen years). I routinely plink rainbow lead at varying distances inside 300m, but when I go out into the field, I switch back to the hottest, flattest loads possible. In the field I just operate inside the point-blank capabilities of this projectile/load (around 150m with Hornady FTX for a 30/30). As you know hot 308s are pretty flat inside 200m.

We all know that OP won't be taking 600m hunting shots, he'll quickly figure that out - so why is it so important to gather data for such max loads? Instead, couldn't he gather his data on his reduced loads for improving his day-to-day target at the range (and stick to point-blank in the field)?

I guess it's worth saying my observations are theoretical - I don't own that rifle, nor have I ever shot it. But at least as an entry point for both disciplines, don't you think something like that could be a good start? That's all I was saying dude - I wasn't saying that it's appropriate for F class.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Gwion » 23 Jan 2017, 1:04 pm

in2anity wrote:
I guess it's worth saying my observations are theoretical - I don't own that rifle, nor have I ever shot it. But at least as an entry point for both disciplines, don't you think something like that could be a good start? That's all I was saying dude - I wasn't saying that it's appropriate for F class.


Yes. A rifle like you described could do both target and hunting. My point was that if he has the budget for a Sako TRG, then he has the budget to afford two rifles that will fill each role more adequately that buying one rifle to do both! ;)

As for loading down... well, fair enough if you already have the skills and experience with your hunting round; however, i'd put "plinking" and "target shooting" in two different categories. If you are "target shooting", you are generally constantly working on skills and equipment to improve your score or group size; if you are "plinking" you are generally happy to fire off as many rounds as you feel like on the day and as long as you didn't completely screw up you will be happy with the results. My point there was that if you are trying to learn to shoot long range so that you can hunt long range, then using the same load is a better idea than changing things up all the time.

Totally agree that unless you are practicing to shoot long range first round hits constantly, it is best to keep your hunting to within max point blank.
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by Baronvonrort » 23 Jan 2017, 2:37 pm

If porcine animals become aerodynamic and folding stocks become legal in NSW you could get a Barrett MRAD, you can change it from .308 to 300 win mag by changing barrel and bolt in the field.
When you add up the cost of optics on multiple rifles it may end up cheaper to have one of these.

Perhaps we should lobby for a change on this ridiculous law by saying we could reduce the number of guns we have if we are allowed to have this Barrett-
www.barrett.net/firearms/mrad
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Re: Advice on new rifle .308or.300winmag

Post by in2anity » 23 Jan 2017, 2:59 pm

Gwion wrote:Yes. A rifle like you described could do both target and hunting. My point was that if he has the budget for a Sako TRG, then he has the budget to afford two rifles that will fill each role more adequately that buying one rifle to do both!


Can't argue with that - you can pick up a used 308 fullbore rifle that'll drive tacks for under $1000. Then just grab a 308 sporter for the field - you'd be out of jail for less than your smancy "tactical" rifle. Is that what OP wanted though?

Gwion wrote:If you are "target shooting", you are generally constantly working on skills and equipment to improve your score or group size; if you are "plinking" you are generally happy to fire off as many rounds as you feel like on the day and as long as you didn't completely screw up you will be happy with the results.


When it comes to punching paper, I'm always chasing group size, no matter how you categorise it :drinks: , and besides many forms of target shooting don't demand official target rifles, for example 3 position or MRCA doesn't demand the accuracy of fullbore or F class; the shooter will by far be the biggest variance here. What about metallic silhouette? You don't need a target rifle to win metallic silhouette matches - just something that accurate enough to realise the shooters inherent shooting skills.
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