First .223

[Lokvo]

Hey guys,

I've just pulled the trigger so to speak on my first centre fire rifle (.223, 1 in 9 twist). A Howa 1500 in the MDT HS3 chassis. I went back and forth on some other options but in the end came back to the Howa for the value price point. Trawling forums and the internet, the Howa 'seemingly' is thought well of in certain circles and hated in others. I'm a relative newbie at this point and mainly a bench shooter. My basic requirements were for a somewhat accurate and reliable rifle. Am I in for buyer's remorse?

[Mongrel]

Your gonna love it, HOWAS are known for accuracy out of the box. I have one in 308 and love it

[Gwion]

You won't be disappointed. Only thing to beware of is the bolt release catch is held on my the most tiny useless screw which can and wil break if you slam your bolt back too vigorously. Also, the trigger can be a bit ordinary but can be turned into a sweet sweet thing by Glen the trigger man for a measly $60. a few guys on here have his details.

[Lokvo]

Thanks for giving my buy a bit of confidence fellas. Good to know its accurate out of the box Mongrel. Good bit of advice Gwion, easy does it on bringing the bolt home hey.

[bigfellascott]

Learn to reload for it mate and it will be very accurate, tune that trigger (look up Glen Coughlan on FB) he's no longer on Ebay and send him your trigger and he will send back a rippa. Also do some research on trigger control and breathing techniques etc and I'm sure you'll enjoy your shooting adventures - like everything it all takes time to learn and learn well but well worth learning.

Good luck and enjoy the Howa's - got 3 of them myself and never an issue ever (some over 30yrs old now) and still shooting beautifully.

Make sure you remove all the preservatives in the bore before shooting it for the first time and don't forget to give everything a wipe over after each use with an oily rag to help protect from rust etc and once the bore is cleaned after each use a oil patch up there too to help prevent rust issues and when ready to shoot again a quick patch or two up the bore to remove said oil and you'll be good to go again and just repeat the process after each outing and clean.

Anyway lots of reading on the cleaning side and you'll work out what to do I'm sure (not hard)

Good luck and enjoy.

[superdave]

Lokvo, you may buy other .223,s in the future, but I think Howa is a good place to start at the very least. I reload for mine, and to be honest, haven't got very far developing a load that it likes yet, but found it seems to shoot very well with 50gn projectiles.

So, a suggestion: if you don't reload, try a selection of ammo through it (including different projectile weights) and watch for what it groups well and what it doesn't. If you do reload, try working through the projectile weights 50,52,55,60 etc, for the same thing.

There's a lot to like about Howa's, generally.

[brett1868]

My Howa Mini Action .223 loves the OSA 55gr ammo and it's reasonably priced.

[Lokvo]

Thanks for the kernels of info guys! all valuable stuff for noobs like me.

Next question is, what sorta scope do I get for the .223?

I've narrowed it down to a few choices;

- Nikon M-223 4-16x42mm BDC Reticle ($600ish),
- Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x 40mm .223 BDC Reticle ($300ish)
- Leupold 115394 Mark AR 6-18x40mm Mil-Dot Reticle ($700ish)

As you can see there's a bit of pattern with my choices with the BDC stuff, reason being I don't want to do too much dialling as I'm a benchshooter firing at paper targets or steel gongs at known distances, 50, 100, 200, 300 metres and beyond (someday) and I'd rather use holdovers. Only the Leupold differs because it's a mil-dot reticle (still researching about it's use) and also is a mil/mil I believe instead of the 0.25 MOA clicks. Can anybody recommend other scopes or steer me right if I am going the totally wrong way here. Also I know technically the power of the above scopes may actually be a tad overkill but the heart wants what the heart wants lol. Cheers.

[in2anity]

Thanks for the kernels of info guys! all valuable stuff for noobs like me.

Next question is, what sorta scope do I get for the .223?

I've narrowed it down to a few choices;

- Nikon M-223 4-16x42mm BDC Reticle ($600ish),
- Bushnell AR Optics 4.5-18x 40mm .223 BDC Reticle ($300ish)
- Leupold 115394 Mark AR 6-18x40mm Mil-Dot Reticle ($700ish)

As you can see there's a bit of pattern with my choices with the BDC stuff, reason being I don't want to do too much dialling as I'm a benchshooter firing at paper targets or steel gongs at known distances, 50, 100, 200, 300 metres and beyond (someday) and I'd rather use holdovers. Only the Leupold differs because it's a mil-dot reticle (still researching about it's use) and also is a mil/mil I believe instead of the 0.25 MOA clicks. Can anybody recommend other scopes or steer me right if I am going the totally wrong way here. Also I know technically the power of the above scopes may actually be a tad overkill but the heart wants what the heart wants lol. Cheers.

The 223 shoots pretty flat mate - you sure you need a reticle with subtensions? How far do you intend to shoot with it? If it were something slow and fat with a bit more of a rainbow then yeah it makes more sense. But I'd reckon a simple but quality leupold that lets in plenty of light would do for now, and you'll have it forever. Why is it so hard to make adjustments at the range anyway? If anything that's the perfect place to be dialing in (unlike the field where shots have to be taken quickly). Just my 2c...

[bobnob]

I have the AR Optics scope you're considering on a 308. Pretty damn good for what i believe is a Chinese made scope. Mine's been knocking around for a couple years and has performed well including quite a bit of dialling up and down. It's done it's job well. Glass is better than ok but might be found wanting at higher mag when compared to the Leupy. I seldom use mine higher than 12x anyway.

[bobnob]

Another thing to consider is if you do later intend to dial elevation for LR shooting, the Bushnell AR Optics has over 100 moa of elevation adjustment. I suspect those other two scopes would not have anywhere near that much.

[Gwion]

Lokvo, you will probably find that the BDC reticule a are more for field use. For target shooting you will want to be able to dial in your elevation and windage. I honestly don't think holding over with a BDC at 300 will achieve the level of accuracy most target shooters aspire to.

[in2anity]

Especially with the lighter projectiles, the 223 is pretty much a laser for the first 200m; inside 200m anything you point directly at is in big trouble. Outside of 200m though (not that I've ever personally gone for a kill past 200m), chances are you're going to have a bit more time to setup and think about things (and properly dial in your the windage/elevation).

Sure reticle subtensions are handy for slower arced rounds (like the 22lr), but can't you cross that bridge when you get to it? Wouldn't you want a scope for each of your rifles anyway? Why not wait until then before experimenting with a fancy reticle? I'd be focusing on simple yet quality glass with a good amount arpeture (for low-light conditions) - something US made or at least Jap made would be ideal.

My take on the .223 (5.56 x45mm) is it's a KISS rifle; hence why it's popular in military circles. Just point and shoot, exactly what you need in the middle of a skirmish (where everything happens very quickly)

[Gettingstarted]

I not long ago put a meopta with the BDC reticule on my 204 ruger. highly recommend it, crystal clear and good light. Somewhere around $650
Given how flat the rifle shoots havnt needed holdover, but I got it thinking down the track I'll want to be stretching it out a bit and I rather have the option than not. Cheers.

[in2anity]

Given how flat the rifle shoots havnt needed holdover

You said it yourself - on a flat shooting rifle, unless you're actively practising holdover (which you should really be ethically saving for the range), it'll hardly every materialise (if ever) in the field. For such a rifle, a super-long shot that legitimately needs holdover, you'll need considerable time to form a stable platform and slow your heart-rate/breathing. In this case you'd just range your target, estimate/measure the wind, do the math and then dial it in properly. The BDC is redundant.

For a 223, I say spend the money on glass quality/aperture over bells and whistles. Of course it's a different story for other calibers though.

[Gwion]

Given that Lovko stated that he is planning to shoot only (or primarily) at the range, a BDC reticule may not be the best choice for plugging small groups at longer ranges.

You want a target scope that can accurately dial up and back for bothe elevation and windage. A entry level hunting scope will not really cut the mustard on the target range. Fine if you are shooting at one given range and set it up once and shoot but you will also find that the stadia on your scope don't really match up to 200yd or 300yd, etc, etc.; it will more likely be some distance around that like 240 or 260 or something. If you are relying on this to hit bull and tightly group for a tallied score you may be sadly disappointed. Might be ok if you are just happy to shoot groups and don't care where on the target the group lands.

My suggestion is research reviews on how your chosen scope handles being dialled back and forth. Just saying because I learnt this the hard way by starting target shooting with a $350 scope with a BDC reticule. Is great for set and forget shooting at 100 or for hunting but didn't handle dialling after a while (wouldn't reliable return to same zero) and the BDC was not a good way to get onto the bull out past 300yd. This was on a 223rem..

[happyhunter]

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[Gamerancher]

My experience with target shooting is mainly Metallic Silhouette where we shoot anywhere from 20 to 500m, depending on what class of rifle we're shooting. Each match involves shooting at 4 different distances and depending on the range you may have to be on the line up to 8 times a day. We sight in for each distance before the match and then adjust each time you get on the line during the match but you get no more sighting in chances. This can involve changing settings up to 16 times a day once the match starts. Needless to say you need a scope that will track reliably and return to the same setting each time you adjust. By far and away the Leupold Vari-X scopes are the most popular with the VX-III 6.5-20 being most used. The reason being that over decades of competition they have proven most reliable in repeatable adjustment, using the target turret models of course. The optical quality is pretty good, ( you can get far better ), and the warranty cannot be beaten.

[Lokvo]

Great points discussed guys! Yes in thinking about it, in the long run and for my own self-improvement in the mechanics of shooting and getting the basics of adjusting down I've pulled trigger on the; Leupold VX-2 6-18x40mm AO. reason being apart from it being a great scope (albeit without BDC) I got it for an amazing price! Since I have a fellow shooter mate (more seasoned though) who suffers from the unfortunate (or rather fortunate for me) tendency to buy/change/splash out for the latest and greatest every so often, so he offered me the Leupold that he'd only had for a couple of months!

[Gwion]

Good get. Hope it works out well for you. Will def get you going and you can take your time if and when you decide to upgrade when you will have a better idea exactly what is going to suit your style of shooting.

[in2anity]

Great points discussed guys! Yes in thinking about it, in the long run and for my own self-improvement in the mechanics of shooting and getting the basics of adjusting down I've pulled trigger on the; Leupold VX-2 6-18x40mm AO. reason being apart from it being a great scope (albeit without BDC) I got it for an amazing price! Since I have a fellow shooter mate (more seasoned though) who suffers from the unfortunate (or rather fortunate for me) tendency to buy/change/splash out for the latest and greatest every so often, so he offered me the Leupold that he'd only had for a couple of months!

Perfect choice - you won't be disappointed

[bobnob]

Nice score. Should work out well. Good luck!