300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

[slickncghia]

Pretty sure the ruger American ranch comes in 300 blackout. Might fit the bill right out of the gate

16" barrel. 1:7 twist cheap light ... Gogogo

[in2anity]

this is funny chit a truck axel barrel but he wants a 3kg rifle ............ NOT happening unless it's 10" long

if you want a 3kg rifle the about the best you can hope for is a #3 at about 20" long

Laugh all you want buddy but I don't think so - give or take a few hundred grams. Remember it won't have optics so there's a few hundred right there. Under 4kg is achievable. The 223 mini action has a HB, AND it's 20", weighing in at 2.99kg. I never said I wanted a bench barrel - just not a sporter.

[in2anity]

yeah I have a 5 on my 223 but he should be able to handle 50 or so shots out of a 300blk

recoil should be about the same as a 6.5 x 55 without going to heave and he was also talking

about offhand shooting so what is he built like

Ha don't you worry, I regularly offhand x50 hot 30/30s in one session, and that's a sportee with peeps, weighing in at around 3.5kgs. And as I said before I'll be loading reduced and Trail Boss loads with this setup most of the time anyway- so recoil is absolutely not a factor. Accuracy is what I'm chasing here...

[in2anity]

Pretty sure the ruger American ranch comes in 300 blackout. Might fit the bill right out of the gate

16" barrel. 1:7 twist cheap light ... Gogogo

But is it a HB rifle? How would it handle long strings of shots? Remember I plink 10 at a time, x10 so 100 shots in one session. Don't worry this rifle definitely caught my eye... it would save a hell of a lot of work and $$. Have you had personal experience with it?

[slickncghia]

But is it a HB rifle? How would it handle long strings of shots? Remember I plink 10 at a time, x10 so 100 shots in one session. Don't worry this rifle definitely caught my eye... it would save a hell of a lot of work and $$. Have you had personal experience with it?

Looks kinda medium profile at best. No personal experience I've got a normal ruger American 30-06 and that is the opposite of hb. Barrell heats up just looking at it.

Still not 100℅ sure of the end purpose? Short medium range cheap plinking offhand? Pistol caliber lever? I dn

[in2anity]

But is it a HB rifle? How would it handle long strings of shots? Remember I plink 10 at a time, x10 so 100 shots in one session. Don't worry this rifle definitely caught my eye... it would save a hell of a lot of work and $$. Have you had personal experience with it?

Still not 100℅ sure of the end purpose? Short medium range cheap plinking offhand? Pistol caliber lever? I dn

Cheap, accurate, cast-lead short-medium reduced plinker with minimal case-void. With ability to really stretch out with some hotter jacketed match projectiles (with the benefit of a ton of projectiles to choose from). Also I can reuse a lot of my 30 cal gear. And I already own a lever god the 7.62 x39mm Howa Mini comes close to ticking all the boxes... heck I'm sure you could run .303 cast lead through one of those :S

[deye243]

this is funny chit a truck axel barrel but he wants a 3kg rifle ............ NOT happening unless it's 10" long

if you want a 3kg rifle the about the best you can hope for is a #3 at about 20" long

Laugh all you want buddy but I don't think so - give or take a few hundred grams. Remember it won't have optics so there's a few hundred right there. Under 4kg is achievable. The 223 mini action has a HB, AND it's 20", weighing in at 2.99kg. I never said I wanted a bench barrel - just not a sporter.

didn't see this bit in the op just the bit about the for sight and it didn't click so this will be a fun little project .

cheers D

[COLLECTOR 1]

Hi there... I recently bought one of these mini Howa rifles in heavy barrelled stainless,,,, 223 cal...specifically for shooting out of a vehicle.

I suggest you check out the magazine and it's demensions because I know the 223 with 50 and 55gn projectials is a snug fit, and you may have seating depth drams with 30 cal.

But it would be a good thing if you could get it up and running

Collector 1

[Mitch]

Firstly,

300blk only needs a 16" barrel for powder burn etc. Any more is a bit wasteful, hence why they all come in ~16" lengths.

Secondly,

You could get a brand new blued barrel fitted and chambered for ~$600, making the whole build say $1200?

Thirdly,

16" barrel is pretty light, even if its a varmint barrel.

I say do it. Stop thinking, just do it.

[bladeracer]

Off the back of discussions we've had in other thread I would like to propose a compact .30 cal, heavy-barrel target rifle that is still light enough to plink with offhand for extended periods at the range. It needs to weigh around 3kg, take most 308win projectiles, and have a tight enough twist to stabilise long heavy projectiles (perhaps up to 220gr?). It's really important that it can handle cast lead - this is what I'll predominantly be shooting; gas-checked 308 165gn rnfps. A 10 shot magazine is also a must.

So here goes (thanks Gwion for originally suggesting this idea):

1. Pick up a Howa mini-action HB in .223 (preferably with a target/varmint stock)
2. Have it rebarreled and re-chambered for 300blk
3. Get it dovetailed for a front sight at the same time
4. Throw a target aperture receiver on the rear mount

So here are some questions for you knowledgeable folk regarding this proposition:

a) The muzzle diameter for the Howa mini-action HB is .725"; would rebarreling up to .30 cal mean it's heat-dispersion capabilities would be dramatically reduced?
b) Would it be safe to presume that such a rifle be still as deadly accurate (sub moa 5-10 shot groups)? Would the thinner barrel dramatically change the harmonics and thus accuracy?
c) Would there be enough meat in the barrel for the front dovetail after the rebarrel?
d) What twist rate would be appropriate? 1:7?
e) Would I be just better off buying something off-the-shelf in 300blk (like the Ruger Ranch)? Any other 300blk suggestions to fill these requirements?
f) Are there already 308wins that realistically tick all of these boxes; i.e. lightweight, short heavy barrel, tight twist, 10shot magazine, very accurate?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Get the American Ranch Rifle in 300BLK and drop it into an MDT LSS stock with ten-round AICS mags.

[in2anity]

Get the American Ranch Rifle in 300BLK and drop it into an MDT LSS stock with ten-round AICS mags.

I just wonder how that barrel would handle long strings of shots...

[in2anity]

this is funny chit a truck axel barrel but he wants a 3kg rifle ............ NOT happening unless it's 10" long

if you want a 3kg rifle the about the best you can hope for is a #3 at about 20" long

Laugh all you want buddy but I don't think so - give or take a few hundred grams. Remember it won't have optics so there's a few hundred right there. Under 4kg is achievable. The 223 mini action has a HB, AND it's 20", weighing in at 2.99kg. I never said I wanted a bench barrel - just not a sporter.

didn't see this bit in the op just the bit about the for sight and it didn't click so this will be a fun little project .

cheers D

[in2anity]

Firstly,
300blk only needs a 16" barrel for powder burn etc. Any more is a bit wasteful, hence why they all come in ~16" lengths.

Remember, I'm chasing a barrel that is designed for standard .30 cal bullets - I'm not too fussed about whether or not the rifle barrel is formally 300blk, just so long as it can stabilise both 165gn RNFP GC lead and 168 HPBT match projectiles (for reaching out). So i'd probably request a 308win barrel - not sure if these would suit a 16"...

[in2anity]

Hi there... I recently bought one of these mini Howa rifles in heavy barrelled stainless,,,, 223 cal...specifically for shooting out of a vehicle.

I suggest you check out the magazine and it's demensions because I know the 223 with 50 and 55gn projectials is a snug fit, and you may have seating depth drams with 30 cal.

But it would be a good thing if you could get it up and running

Collector 1

Hmm yeah that could be an issue Any suggestions as to how I could verify this before committing to the project?

[Gamerancher]

The .300 Whisper, er, sorry, BLACKOUT, is based on the .221 Fireball case and is shorter than .223Rem by a fair bit. You shouldn't have length issues it would mainly be shoulder and bullet diameter that may cause feeding problems and you may need to modify the mag. I have one in a Sako 461 with the standard hinged floor-plate magazine that feeds OK.

Oh,yeah, almost forgot, I also use cast 170gr RNFP GC bullets in it.

[bladeracer]

I just wonder how that barrel would handle long strings of shots...

It's only 16" long, and it shoots about 400-500fps slower than a .30/30 with about half the powder charge.

Only one way to know for sure

[bladeracer]

Remember, I'm chasing a barrel that is designed for standard .30 cal bullets - I'm not too fussed about whether or not the rifle barrel is formally 300blk, just so long as it can stabilise both 165gn RNFP GC lead and 168 HPBT match projectiles (for reaching out). So i'd probably request a 308win barrel - not sure if these would suit a 16"...

If you want to stabilise heavy bullets at low velocities then you probably do want a 300BLK barrel (not that 168gn is heavy in 30-cal.).
The alternative is to order a tight-twist .308 barrel at whatever length you want. Use a slower powder and I'm sure the bullet will still be accelerating at the muzzle of even a 30" tube, it just won't be doing so as efficiently as it does in the first 16" or so.

You can probably pick up a Ranch rifle for what you'd pay just to buy a custom barrel, plus the cost of fitting it to whatever action you already have for it?
And if you don't like it you can resell it for almost what it cost you.

[in2anity]

Remember, I'm chasing a barrel that is designed for standard .30 cal bullets - I'm not too fussed about whether or not the rifle barrel is formally 300blk, just so long as it can stabilise both 165gn RNFP GC lead and 168 HPBT match projectiles (for reaching out). So i'd probably request a 308win barrel - not sure if these would suit a 16"...

If you want to stabilise heavy bullets at low velocities then you probably do want a 300BLK barrel (not that 168gn is heavy in 30-cal.).
The alternative is to order a tight-twist .308 barrel at whatever length you want. Use a slower powder and I'm sure the bullet will still be accelerating at the muzzle of even a 30" tube, it just won't be doing so as efficiently as it does in the first 16" or so.

You can probably pick up a Ranch rifle for what you'd pay just to buy a custom barrel, plus the cost of fitting it to whatever action you already have for it?
And if you don't like it you can resell it for almost what it cost you.

So I take it you're an advocate of opting for something off-the-shelf over the costs and risks associated with attempting a custom build? Question is, when it comes to accuracy, which one wins?

[happyhunter]

.

[bladeracer]

So I take it you're an advocate of opting for something off-the-shelf over the costs and risks associated with attempting a custom build? Question is, when it comes to accuracy, which one wins?

I love experimenting and learning how to do new things.
But when you have a particularly cheap means to "prototype" your endeavour I say give it a try. At least you can learn with it while you're building the custom one

I don't know what sort of accuracy the 300BLK is capable of, but all four of my Ruger Americans shoot very well straight from their boxes. A quick Google does seem to show the accuracy potential of 300BLK is inconsistent at best. Whether that can be addressed by building a custom rifle around the cartridge I have no idea.
http://rifleshooter.com/2016/08/300-blk-accuracy-maybe-it-isnt-you/
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94786

What sort of accuracy/range are you aiming for with this build?

For example, the Sierra 168gn Matchking has a BC of .462 above 2600fps, but under 2100fps it falls to a BC of .424, and below 1600fps it drops to .405 - and you'll probably not be pushing them much harder than about 1800fps from the 300BLK, about two-thirds the velocity you'd be getting from a .308. It'll be going transonic by about 400m as well. A 150m zero puts it 90mm high at 80m and 200mm low by 200m. It's also down to the "magical" 800ft/lbs by 200m. At the muzzle the 300BLK has the same velocity that the .308 still has at 500m with the same bullet.

[happyhunter]

.

[in2anity]

You mean this?
http://www.dpmsinc.com/COMPACT-HUNTER_ep_151-1.html

Lol yes, but is that a semi?

[in2anity]

For example, the Sierra 168gn Matchking has a BC of .462 above 2600fps, but under 2100fps it falls to a BC of .424, and below 1600fps it drops to .405 - and you'll probably not be pushing them much harder than about 1800fps from the 300BLK, about two-thirds the velocity you'd be getting from a .308. It'll be going transonic by about 400m as well. A 150m zero puts it 90mm high at 80m and 200mm low by 200m. It's also down to the "magical" 800ft/lbs by 200m. At the muzzle the 300BLK has the same velocity that the .308 still has at 500m with the same bullet.

Very interesting Blade - thanks for this information mate I really appreciate it Nothing like a few facts to ram-home the truth. I'd punch paper at 300m with it, then maybe stretch it out to 500m at Hornsby down the track. Hunting - never past 150m with irons. I might varmint with it though if I experimented with a scope...

Ok how about this then - instead of 300blk, how about use the 7.62x39 action instead of .223? Although then it's technically a wildcat... would it be dangerous running 0.311 projectiles through a .308 barrel (i.e in case I put. factory 7.62x39 ammo through the.308 barrel)?

[bladeracer]

Very interesting Blade - thanks for this information mate I really appreciate it Nothing like a few facts to ram-home the truth. I'd punch paper at 300m with it, then maybe stretch it out to 500m at Hornsby down the track. Hunting - never past 150m with irons. I might varmint with it though if I experimented with a scope...

Ok how about this then - instead of 300blk, how about use the 7.62x39 action instead of .223? Although then it's technically a wildcat... would it be dangerous running 0.311 projectiles through a .308 barrel (i.e in case I put. factory 7.62x39 ammo through the.308 barrel)?

As long as you work up your loads I doubt there's any problem pushing .311" bullets down a .308 barrel. The 7.62x39mm is way below .308 spec anyway though. I've heard of people shooting 7.62x39mm in .308 and .30/06 rifles, and shooting .308 in .30/06 with no problems, usually by mistake. In fact, I'm sure I've read of the military shooting .45ACP through the M1 rifle for some reason?????

I've even heard of people shooting a .30/06 down a .270 without blowing it up, although pressures must've been way up there. I did read once of a .243 that blew up after a .308 or 7mm-08 was accidentally fed into it though. That would be a very over-size bullet on top of a very reduced case capacity by the bullet being pushed back into the case I would imagine.

Really, I'm leaning even more towards simply shooting a .308 at reduced velocities as being the best option

[in2anity]

Really, I'm leaning even more towards simply shooting a .308 at reduced velocities as being the best option

Yep and that is definitely a possibility - but is there an accurate, short (16-18"), heavy-barrel tight-twist 308, reasonably light (less than 4kg) available in Australia? Any suggestions?

Perhaps I should just pick up a Howa BA 308 and have it cut down to 16"-18"?

[VICHunter]

You're essentially describing a Scout rifle there (compact, heavier profile barrel, .308)

Ruger and Steyr both make one.

"Accurate" though, how much are you hoping for? The Ruger isn't famous for accuracy. Let's call it "hunting accurate". I'm not really familiar with the Steyr at all to be honest but I suspect it will be better, if not amazing.

The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.

[in2anity]

The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.

Actually there is a 16.5" version already - order no 85538. Pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Comes in at $1440 from my LGS.

[happyhunter]

.

[in2anity]

Yes it is. You can find similar in straight pull.

Lol my poor wallet. Nah the Remington SPS Tactical 16.5" ticks every one of my requirements, and it can scale up for medium/long range target. Stiff little barrel too so I bet it would drive tacks short/medium.

As much as I'd really love to experiment with this build I suggested, I feel I can't afford to take the risk when there's already a prefect off-the-shelf solution (for the same price).

[in2anity]

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