300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by happyhunter » 18 Jan 2017, 9:15 am

.
Last edited by happyhunter on 20 Feb 2017, 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jan 2017, 9:16 am

in2anity wrote:So I take it you're an advocate of opting for something off-the-shelf over the costs and risks associated with attempting a custom build? Question is, when it comes to accuracy, which one wins?



I love experimenting and learning how to do new things.
But when you have a particularly cheap means to "prototype" your endeavour I say give it a try. At least you can learn with it while you're building the custom one :-)

I don't know what sort of accuracy the 300BLK is capable of, but all four of my Ruger Americans shoot very well straight from their boxes. A quick Google does seem to show the accuracy potential of 300BLK is inconsistent at best. Whether that can be addressed by building a custom rifle around the cartridge I have no idea.
http://rifleshooter.com/2016/08/300-blk-accuracy-maybe-it-isnt-you/
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94786

What sort of accuracy/range are you aiming for with this build?

For example, the Sierra 168gn Matchking has a BC of .462 above 2600fps, but under 2100fps it falls to a BC of .424, and below 1600fps it drops to .405 - and you'll probably not be pushing them much harder than about 1800fps from the 300BLK, about two-thirds the velocity you'd be getting from a .308. It'll be going transonic by about 400m as well. A 150m zero puts it 90mm high at 80m and 200mm low by 200m. It's also down to the "magical" 800ft/lbs by 200m. At the muzzle the 300BLK has the same velocity that the .308 still has at 500m with the same bullet.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by happyhunter » 18 Jan 2017, 9:19 am

.
Last edited by happyhunter on 20 Feb 2017, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 9:27 am



Lol yes, but is that a semi?
Last edited by in2anity on 18 Jan 2017, 9:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 9:50 am

bladeracer wrote:For example, the Sierra 168gn Matchking has a BC of .462 above 2600fps, but under 2100fps it falls to a BC of .424, and below 1600fps it drops to .405 - and you'll probably not be pushing them much harder than about 1800fps from the 300BLK, about two-thirds the velocity you'd be getting from a .308. It'll be going transonic by about 400m as well. A 150m zero puts it 90mm high at 80m and 200mm low by 200m. It's also down to the "magical" 800ft/lbs by 200m. At the muzzle the 300BLK has the same velocity that the .308 still has at 500m with the same bullet.


Very interesting Blade - thanks for this information mate I really appreciate it :thumbsup: Nothing like a few facts to ram-home the truth. I'd punch paper at 300m with it, then maybe stretch it out to 500m at Hornsby down the track. Hunting - never past 150m with irons. I might varmint with it though if I experimented with a scope...

Ok how about this then - instead of 300blk, how about use the 7.62x39 action instead of .223? Although then it's technically a wildcat... would it be dangerous running 0.311 projectiles through a .308 barrel (i.e in case I put. factory 7.62x39 ammo through the.308 barrel)?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 18 Jan 2017, 10:39 am

in2anity wrote:Very interesting Blade - thanks for this information mate I really appreciate it :thumbsup: Nothing like a few facts to ram-home the truth. I'd punch paper at 300m with it, then maybe stretch it out to 500m at Hornsby down the track. Hunting - never past 150m with irons. I might varmint with it though if I experimented with a scope...

Ok how about this then - instead of 300blk, how about use the 7.62x39 action instead of .223? Although then it's technically a wildcat... would it be dangerous running 0.311 projectiles through a .308 barrel (i.e in case I put. factory 7.62x39 ammo through the.308 barrel)?



As long as you work up your loads I doubt there's any problem pushing .311" bullets down a .308 barrel. The 7.62x39mm is way below .308 spec anyway though. I've heard of people shooting 7.62x39mm in .308 and .30/06 rifles, and shooting .308 in .30/06 with no problems, usually by mistake. In fact, I'm sure I've read of the military shooting .45ACP through the M1 rifle for some reason?????

I've even heard of people shooting a .30/06 down a .270 without blowing it up, although pressures must've been way up there. I did read once of a .243 that blew up after a .308 or 7mm-08 was accidentally fed into it though. That would be a very over-size bullet on top of a very reduced case capacity by the bullet being pushed back into the case I would imagine.

Really, I'm leaning even more towards simply shooting a .308 at reduced velocities as being the best option :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 11:07 am

bladeracer wrote:Really, I'm leaning even more towards simply shooting a .308 at reduced velocities as being the best option :-)


Yep and that is definitely a possibility - but is there an accurate, short (16-18"), heavy-barrel tight-twist 308, reasonably light (less than 4kg) available in Australia? Any suggestions?

Perhaps I should just pick up a Howa BA 308 and have it cut down to 16"-18"?
Last edited by in2anity on 18 Jan 2017, 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by VICHunter » 18 Jan 2017, 12:26 pm

You're essentially describing a Scout rifle there (compact, heavier profile barrel, .308)

Ruger and Steyr both make one.

"Accurate" though, how much are you hoping for? The Ruger isn't famous for accuracy. Let's call it "hunting accurate". I'm not really familiar with the Steyr at all to be honest but I suspect it will be better, if not amazing.

The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.
User avatar
VICHunter
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 623
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 1:02 pm

VICHunter wrote:The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.


Actually there is a 16.5" version already - order no 85538. Pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Comes in at $1440 from my LGS.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by happyhunter » 18 Jan 2017, 6:18 pm

.
Last edited by happyhunter on 20 Feb 2017, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 6:46 pm

happyhunter wrote:Yes it is. You can find similar in straight pull.


Lol my poor wallet. Nah the Remington SPS Tactical 16.5" ticks every one of my requirements, and it can scale up for medium/long range target. Stiff little barrel too so I bet it would drive tacks short/medium.

As much as I'd really love to experiment with this build I suggested, I feel I can't afford to take the risk when there's already a prefect off-the-shelf solution (for the same price).
Last edited by in2anity on 19 Jan 2017, 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 18 Jan 2017, 6:58 pm

<duplicate post - damned phone!>
Last edited by in2anity on 19 Jan 2017, 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by Gwion » 19 Jan 2017, 5:28 am

The Rem in 308 is probably better suited for what you want anyway. The 300blk is designed for short range work. Expecting to shoot it past 200 with any success should kind'a be a waste of time in my book.
User avatar
Gwion
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3978
-

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by pete1 » 19 Jan 2017, 5:56 am

happyhunter wrote:Long barrel rifles suck. Rifles with short barrels are king. That's my contribution :D


I'll agree with that
22LR
223
308
12G
12G
12G
User avatar
pete1
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 390
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2017, 6:04 am

Gwion wrote:The Rem in 308 is probably better suited for what you want anyway. The 300blk is designed for short range work. Expecting to shoot it past 200 with any success should kind'a be a waste of time in my book.


Yeah the numbers Blade came up with were a little underwhelming tbh; the case is just a bit too short for mid-range target :(
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2017, 6:26 am

pete1 wrote:
happyhunter wrote:Long barrel rifles suck. Rifles with short barrels are king. That's my contribution :D


I'll agree with that



I like long barrels but short rifles - bullpups rule :-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2017, 6:30 am

in2anity wrote:
VICHunter wrote:The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.


Actually there is a 16.5" version already - order no 85538. Pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Comes in at $1440 from my LGS.


Except it doesn't have the tight twist rate you keep mentioning. It's a 10-inch twist, 300BLK uses 7-inch twist.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2017, 6:33 am

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
VICHunter wrote:The Remington SPS Tactical might be an option too. Proper heavy barrel, 20" length, almost certainly more accurate than the above. 3.4kg naked.


Actually there is a 16.5" version already - order no 85538. Pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Comes in at $1440 from my LGS.


Except it doesn't have the tight twist rate you keep mentioning. It's a 10-inch twist, 300BLK uses 7-inch twist.


1:10 is tight enough - I'm happy to stay well under 200gn projectiles - in fact I bet I pretty much stick around the 160-170gn mark. Anyway that rifle also comes in 300blk (if the 1:7 is a must). But I'd prefer the bigger case size of the 308w (for potentially hotter loads) over the more versatile twist seen in the 300blk. Also quite possibly this particular 308w rifle would like Trail Boss (in which case shell void becomes a non-issue) - if this is the case there's really no argument against the 308w vs the 300blk. Unless of course you wanted to stabilise heavy subsonics like 220grainers (which I don't).
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2017, 11:51 am

BTW does anyone know what brand sight this is?:

2013-04-08-003-600x399.jpg
2013-04-08-003-600x399.jpg (33.8 KiB) Viewed 5376 times


This is very similar to the setup I'm aiming for, only I'd prefer a properly dovetailed front sight:

2013-04-08-002-600x411.jpg
2013-04-08-002-600x411.jpg (46.23 KiB) Viewed 5376 times
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2017, 12:15 pm

in2anity wrote:BTW does anyone know what brand sight this is?:

2013-04-08-003-600x399.jpg


This is very similar to the setup I'm aiming for, only I'd prefer a properly dovetailed front sight:

2013-04-08-002-600x411.jpg



No, but there are a number of manufacturers of peep sights - have a look at Brownells.com.au.
The front sight is possibly done that way so the barrel doesn't need a new dovetail cut every time the chamber is recut or the barrel replaced.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by Gamerancher » 19 Jan 2017, 1:15 pm

Yes, as is written on the sight, Redfield. Type / model is International. They are a match grade sight with positive click adjustments for both elevation and windage, made in U.S.A.
By the way, there is a Remington 16.5" barrelled .300BLK on usedguns today.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2017, 1:26 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Yes, as is written on the sight, Redfield. Type / model is International. They are a match grade sight with positive click adjustments for both elevation and windage, made in U.S.A..


I'm impressed :clap: How about the attachment on the side - do you know what the official name for that piece is?

Gamerancher wrote: By the way, there is a Remington 16.5" barrelled .300BLK on usedguns today.


No way! Pity it's not in 308w!
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by Gamerancher » 19 Jan 2017, 1:42 pm

Come on, bit of tongue in cheek. Damn, I forgot the sarcasm thingy again.
Seriously though, that is what it is and the attachment on the side is part of the sight. They make the sight and then basically an adapter for different brands/models of rifles. The Redfield 75 is a similar sight made for flat sided lever actions. They are very sought after in my sport and getting harder to come by. There is also their "Olympic" and "Palma" sights that are similar to the one in your pics.
Front sight?
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2017, 1:52 pm

Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 19 Jan 2017, 2:00 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Come on, bit of tongue in cheek. Damn, I forgot the sarcasm thingy again.


And I was seriously impressed mate - no sarcasm! The resolution of that original image was way too low for me to read the writing on the top of the sight - yet you are clearly experienced enough to tell at a glance. Seriously, thank you :drinks:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by pmomd » 20 Jan 2017, 11:12 am

in2anity wrote:BTW does anyone know what brand sight this is?:


What's the writing on the top there? Looks like branding stuff more than specs?
CZ 550 Varmint in .308 Winchester.
Ruger Hawkeye in 30-06 Springfield.
User avatar
pmomd
Private
Private
 
Posts: 70
Western Australia

Re: 300blk Howa Crossover Rifle

Post by in2anity » 20 Jan 2017, 12:10 pm

pmomd wrote:
in2anity wrote:BTW does anyone know what brand sight this is?:


What's the writing on the top there? Looks like branding stuff more than specs?


DSC_0026.jpg
DSC_0026.jpg (194.64 KiB) Viewed 1874 times
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

PreviousNext

Back to top
 
Return to Centerfire rifles