408-444

[andym79]

Hi guys, I am considering doing a .408-444 wildcat.

I am thinking that the case would be based on a 444 marlin necked down to 408, but tapered, like a smaller 40-65 and 2.04" long. The rifle would be a Win94 big bore.

What do you think?

The barrel twist available 1:13 length I am thinking 26", what size bullet would you guys recommend?

Yes I could just get a 40-65, but I want something similar in a Win 94 platform.

I was thinking the RCBS 40-300 or 40-350! ?

This is roughly what it would look like.

408ajm.jpg (65.19 KiB) Viewed 4057 times

[straightshooter]

I'm sorry, it must be limitations in my mental capacity, but I just can't grasp the rationale behind this proposed wildcat.
What is it that makes it more desirable, for your purposes, than just a straight 444.
You are of course aware that model 94's were at one time offered in 444 and thus some of the problems you may encounter in your proposed conversion will have been dealt with but with your proposed tapered case you won't be able to approach 444 pressures in a relatively weak action like a 94.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Andy....... mate...... maaaaaaaaaaaaaate...

[Gamerancher]

Some blokes are just obsessed with "inventing" their "own" cartridge.

Saw an article in a shooting mag about this bloke who wanted a cartridge to do a certain "job". Couldn't find anything that suited so he went about creating his "own".
After much expense in getting a special reamer made, custom brass, rifle smithing etc... he had his own personalized cartridge. Basically a 9 x 57mm! Yeah, the Europeans came up with that one some time ago.

[BRNO_Bigot]

Gamerancher - I also saw that and thought it sounded interesting, until I thought that the 358 "Surname" Express sounded mighty like the 9x57 - about 0.002" difference in diameter - so basically a vanity project.

Good luck to him.

[Tripod]

Ignore the naysayers, Go for it.
I will say that it will be horrendously expensive as you will need a custom reamer made and custom dies, The dies alone will be at least a 9 month wait.
I am in the process of doing a 40cal wildcat on a Marlin 375 action and a .224 wildcat on a Ruger 77-44 action. I am lucky that I have the tools and ability to make most of the dies and do a lot of my own machining.

[andym79]

Just to say, I have the barrel and the reamer and dies, and will be getting this project done next.

It turns out that someone had done this before me (not a surprise) it also turns out that this cartridge was done long long before the 444 in fact in the 19th century its called the 40-63 Ballard, luckily I found this out before I got a custom reamer or dies made and the off the shelf reamer and dies ran to $300 USD. The only reason had it done early is because I had a 7 month wait for a slow twist 408 barrel and other projects have be higher priority over the last year, that's how long all the bits have sat in my shed.

[RoginaJack]

OK, a 408-444 wildcat, so what's the ballistic on this and intended use.

Also, whats the difference between this and the 40-63, 40-65, 40-65-550, and 40-70's Winchesters, Ballards, Maynards, Peabodys, Sharps etc, etc.that have all come and gone.

Sorry, but I just don't get it....

[andym79]

No real difference, it was only dreamed of because it fitted the Lee Enfield and the choice of 408 bullets is a lot better than 429 bullets, if you like rifle ones that is.

Ballistically it offers nothing over those you mention, I think it tells me to stop buying rifles with rooted barrels then these ideas wouldn't come about, because those cheapo rifles cost more in the end than just buying something normal.

[Stoney]

.375 JDJ...…….just saying

[Bill]

Gamerancher - I also saw that and thought it sounded interesting, until I thought that the 358 "Surname" Express sounded mighty like the 9x57 - about 0.002" difference in diameter - so basically a vanity project.

Good luck to him.

absolutely, the 358 Surname express was 1 of the better vanity exercises LOL

your 408/444 idea sounds interesting but it sounds like a money pit.

[marksman]

just go for it, if that what you want

one of my best friends hobby's is wildcatting cartridges, most people think he is mad with his money but he's usually the first they go to with a problem
it costs no more to rebarrel a wildcat than a standard case if you want your own reamer
if the cost was to prohibitive you wouldn't be thinking about doing it and if it would be cheaper to just do it standard you are going for second best

do it your way and have fun with it

[straightshooter]

No real difference, it was only dreamed of because it fitted the Lee Enfield and the choice of 408 bullets is a lot better than 429 bullets, if you like rifle ones that is.

Ballistically it offers nothing over those you mention, I think it tells me to stop buying rifles with rooted barrels then these ideas wouldn't come about, because those cheapo rifles cost more in the end than just buying something normal.

Since you are now talking about a Lee Enfield rather than a Win 94 give some thought to a .375/303 Westley Richards Accelerated Express.
Shouldn't have any magazine or feed problems. Sprinter (if he is still going) may be able to rebore your existing barrel and a competent gunsmith may be able to modify the neck and throat of the existing chamber with readily available, simple, chucking reamers.

[Bill]

Sprinter hasnt rebored anything in a decade and that was from his own mouth. A 375/303 W Richards .... now that sounds alot a better

[RoginaJack]

Fair enough, go for it.

[bigpete]

Yeah,Keith won't do rebores anymore. But he is still going

[yumastepside]

Have you looked at the 411 JDJ or the 405 Grenadier?



Roger

[andym79]

The 411 JDJ is pretty much what I will have, with a bit less capacity, because it tapers to the neck rather than bottle necking!

The Ballard is 2.250 not to 2.05 as my original drawing.

[Daddybang]

just go for it, if that what you want



do it your way and have fun with it

Two great pieces of advice!!!!