Cheap .22 options

[308cool]

Hey Guys,
I've had my 25-06 now for about a month now and absolutely love it. The rifle is a browning x-bolt topped with a meopta 4-12x50. Its very light weight and has a super smooth action as well as a very crisp trigger (albeit a little heavy at 3lb, but should be safer for hunting). Been too the range about 2-3 times and had reasonable accuracy about 1.5-2" @ 100yds (I haven't shot for about 4 years before now, so I'm also very much to blame for this accuracy) with cheap core-lokts but I'm going to be testing some handloads next week which should get me under 1 moa, and deliver the accuracy I've heard about this gun.

Now to my actual question. The 2 main issues with the purchase of my 25-06 are that, since it is quite an 'overbore' cartridge I can really only fire 5 shots with at least a minute between each shot before the barrel gets very hot and I have to leave it to fully cool down. The other issue is, since I'm a uni student I think I spent too much on my first rifle (not that I regret it..), leaving me to not really be able to shoot as much as I want too or expand my collection with anything decent, thus to overcome both these issues, I'm looking at getting a .22 (shot between 25-06 cooling down, and be able to shot at lot more often @ 10c a round). I was originally going to be sent the .22 I used as a kid from my uncle but that has fallen through because he wants to use it with his young son in the coming years which I 100% understand. So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

TL;DR - Looking at options for a .22 model priced between $300-350 that is accurate, not single shot and would be reliable (don't care about looks).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if this is an unreasonable proposal given my budget as well.
Cheers

[Oldbloke]

My son law has a ss Marlin 22lr. Very accurate. Price was reasonable but I don't recall. Also consider the Norinco 22. By all accounts great value. Just search this forum for more info.

[duncan61]

Your LGS should have loads of suitable .22 rifles.I picked up a 5 shot Winchester for my mates Grandchildren in good condition very reasonable price

[Bent Arrow]

At that budget there's a few "new" options and lots of second hand ones. The Norinco JW-15 is probably at the cheap but reliable end. I recently picked up a second hand anschutz 1450 within your budget.

My 25-06 heats up quick too, but you should be able to get better accuracy than that just with factory ammo. I'm by no means a good shot and mine delivers half inch groups with federal ammo shooting prone off a bipod

[Supaduke]

Marlin XT-22's can be had for under $400, pretty good for the price.

Stirlings (Philippino I believe)

Norincos (also sold as puma)

All cheap and cheerful. With reasonable build quality but generally not finished well.

Norincos for example, will usually need to be fully stripped and have moulding lines sanded or filed off (if stock is plastic) or cutting fluff and swarf removed if timber. But with a little bit of work make for an honest reliable gun.

Marlins are made in the USA and generally finished to a much higher standard. But cost a bit more.

[308cool]

Cheers legends.
Great help as always. Will drop into the LGS in coming days just to see if they have anything. Also just had a quick research of the norinco's and wow, for $250 with a scope. Dont know how I missed that. Totally forgot about these guns. As I said I dont care about looks finish etc (which it seems the norinco's seriously lacks) but it sounds as though it can shoot pretty straight. Might have to have a look at these if the LGS doesn't produce the goods.

[wrenchman]

i have a marlin model 25 i have had it for 32 years and still shoots nice

[Mongrel]

Me and 2 of my mates have the Norinco jw-15, aint much to look at but for the money u spend its worth every penny. We were hitting golfballs out to 70m with them.
Albeit not every shot but if we missed it wasnt by a long way.

[Gamerancher]

Seen a couple of Lithgow-Slazengers Model 12's on usedguns for around the $200 mark. You really couldn't go wrong with one of those providing the bore was in good shape.

[Oldbloke]

Cheers legends.
Great help as always. Will drop into the LGS in coming days just to see if they have anything. Also just had a quick research of the norinco's and wow, for $250 with a scope. Dont know how I missed that. Totally forgot about these guns. As I said I dont care about looks finish etc (which it seems the norinco's seriously lacks) but it sounds as though it can shoot pretty straight. Might have to have a look at these if the LGS doesn't produce the goods.

If you get the plastic stock you can always give it a camo paint job.

[Gwion]

Here are just a few in your price range:

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=101011
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=100816
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=95251
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=100144
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=100056
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=99980
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=98547
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=98505

[Gwion]

and a few more!!!

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=98056 <<< nice old sportco!
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=97764
https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=95321 << original t-bolt!

[TheGreenwolf]

there are of course 2nd hand rifles, i have seen some ruger .22, marlin and mossbergs for around that price (also need to add on transfer fees).

can get a brand new mossberg from $290.

i dont know how well these shoot with the exception of the marlin, my dad has one and really likes it....but the mossbergs and rugers do have great reviews online.

[bladeracer]

A Big factor in accuracy in 22LR is the ammo. I find the difference between brands can be huge. I really like the RWS subsonics and the SK Rifle Match it is a bit harder to find but not more expensive at about $12 for 50 compared to the CCI mini mags at $20 for 100. The CCI will spray randomly at about an inch at 50m and the SK will clover leaf at 50m

Definitely try as many different types as you can, but price is no indicator of accuracy in your particular rifle.
I've tried more than thirty types so far in my Ruger Compact. Eley Edge so far is the leader by a slight margin over CCI Standard Velocity, which is a third the price of the Eley. CCI Velocitors also shoot very well. Remington Cyclone cheap ammo and it also shoots very well, although I've found all Remington is dirty shooting stuff.

I'm picking up some Eley Tenex today which will be the most expensive stuff I've put through it so far. I don't expect it to shoot well in mine, but my brother's Annie 64 MSR prefers it - according to the previous owner. The rifle so far has merely shown _slightly_ better accuracy over the Ruger, which I find a bit disappointing - lots more testing to do with that one.

When my Ruger Rimfire Target arrives (next week I hope!) I'll be doing the same testing all over again, so I need to restock with everything I can find.

[Ausmade]

Nothing wrong with good old Lithgow's or Sportco's, usually for a couple of hundred or so. I paid $200 each for mine

[in2anity]

308cool I think to properly answer this question, what will you mostly use your 22 for? Benchrest, ISSF style prone, 3-position, metallic silhouette, etc?... the list goes on. Will it mostly be a range gun, or do you see yourself regularly hunting with it? If so, will you trek with it? Or will you be driving? Have a think, then we can further suggest a more specific rifle.

[bladeracer]

To Bladracer I would highly recommend that you get some of the SK Rifle Match to put with your testing. I found it a standout when I did a comparison shoot will shoot same hole repeatedly. I now have a lot of half empty boxes of stuff I don't really want to shoot. The other weekend I tried to get rid of some doing some plinking and was just frustrated and not enjoying the shoot knowing that the other bullets would just perform so much better. I have seen it at Clayton firearms. I got mine from Ammunition Galore its a part time business of a Rimfire target shooter so you arrange to go to his place at a convenient time or at some other pre arranged location. He is a really nice guy and sells all type of things rimfire benchrest related, very good prices can highly recommend this business.

Yep, I've been wanting to try it but can never find it locally. My local today only has a 500rd can of SK Magazine which is way more than I want for testing. I try to keep at least one packet of everything in the safe for testing, then I buy bricks of whatever I find shoots well. One I forgot is the Highland RX RN which is the cheapest ammo I've found, I picked up two bricks for $34 each in 2015 and it shoots well, as good as the majority of what I've tried, but at a fraction of their prices. The RX HP doesn't shoot quite as well unfortunately.

I prefer to buy my powder, primers and ammo from my local to keep him in business. Just doesn't make sense to burn fuel going elsewhere, and the cost of my shooting will skyrocket if my local closes down due to lack of custom. I only ordered 100rds of Tenex, but as he had to buy a brick I took 200rds off him.

My Rimfire Target is sitting in Customs

[Oldbloke]

I would stay away from Stirling.

[bladeracer]

When i was at Ammunition Galore and got talking about the different options it was really interesting. He has the more expensive rounds and will explain to you exactly what you are buying and if you are getting value for money. The Eley Tenex he also said was at the top of the range but at $70 or more for a box of $50, you want to be in a competition where the money is no object and you want to win. The SK Rifle match was just over $11 for a box of 50 when i just recently purchased it. I bought 2 bricks and will probably buy another 1 when the first brick is used just in case there is a wait time. It is a German made round and the quality control shines through with great consistency. The SK Magazine he rated at the bottom of the SK range. I think that is true for most of the loose rounds across the manufactures, I will always stick with the individual boxed ammo.

I have a half box of the Highland High Impact RX hollow point It faired better than I expected in my tests. From looking at the packing I nearly put it in the loose unboxed round category. It was no outstanding pro former I put it ahead of the CCI mini mag.

The other surprising round was the Winchester Power Point 40gr there is also a 42gr very different round. I found these to shoot well. I did find a reason they may have been shooting well though. I found I had real trouble trying to extract an unfired round. It seams that the bullet is seated well into the lands. This can increase accuracy and in this case I think it was. Once the issue is found its not such a drama most of the time it just means you must fire any chambered round. I use the round for the bunnies the SK for target and bunnies if they are away from there warren. Death is not instant. RWS if I want a bit of quite time and not draw attention very accurate 100 m I feel is max for that load however

I really don't see how a retailer can tell you if you're getting value. Value for just anybody is dependent on accuracy, and that can only be determined by actually shooting it in the specific firearm. It really is something of a lottery and you simply have to try everything you can get your hands on if you want to discover what your specific rifle likes. I've found the match-class ammo tends to shoot tidier, more consistent groups, although group size varies. I think there probably is benefit to buying several bricks, dumping the whole lot into a pot and sorting them by weight and rim thickness. Put the most consistent aside for accurate work and use the remainder up for plinking and fouling. Both the 42gn Wins also shoot fairly well in my Ruger, although I doubt they're reaching the lands.

He charged me $30 a box for the Tenex. I have seen it elsewhere for as much as $42 though.

I've just been doing a stocktake so I know what I need to get.
I currently have:
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Stinger
CCI Quiet Segmented HP
CCI Subsonic Segmented HP
CCI Velocitor
CCI MiniMag
CCI Copper-22
Eley Tenex
Eley Edge
Eley Club
Eley Match
Eley Subsonic
RWS HVHP
RWS Rifle Match
Remington Subsonic
Remington Cyclone
Remington Subsonic-22
Highland RX RN
Highland RX HP
Winchester Long-Z
Winchester Powerpoint 42
Winchester Subsonic Max 42
Winchester Super-X Short
Federal American Eagle HP

And some very old:
Winchester T22
ICI Civic Long
ICI Shot

So I'll need to pick up a few more next week.

[bladeracer]

Thats one hell of an inventory and I thought I had problems with too many open boxes that i dont use or like. I think he can give advice on value for money as he is a target shooter first. and selling to help others in his club or sport. A bit like the VRA and Qstore however even better prices. I locked at my RWS It is just marked HP subsonic is that another type from what you have. The one I have is very good. I would try the Winchester Power Point 40gr as well as you already have the 42grn I would be interested in the comparison. It is a little longer again. thats why I stayed away from it, with already problems extracting the 40s. I too have some Winchester FMJ from the 70s it shoots well and fast. I haven't looked at today's offerings so much but back then you could get the super velocity stuff as well. Back in the day before they found that shooting slower ammo gave better results.

If you're only going to own one .22 then I guess it'd suck to have a bunch of ammo that doesn't shoot great. But I'm much more of an experimenter so I like to have lots of stuff I can try in other rifles I buy or borrow. It all gets used up quickly enough

I understand he has experience, but how can he tell you what ammunition is going to shoot well in your specific rifle until he tries it himself? You constantly see people on forums or Youtube doing ammo tests and offering opinions on how great particular ammo is, only to find it doesn't shoot well at all in your rifle when you try it. Winchester Long-Z for example is the worst I've tried, it doesn't group at all in my Ruger, consistently, every time I try it. But I know others that love it. Somebody recently mentioned CCI Quiet Segmented HP was garbage, but it shoots very well in my Ruger. Both the RWS I've tried shoot no better than Highland RX in my Ruger, but you say their Subsonics shoots great for you. Yes, RWS HVHP is not subsonic, that's a different cartridge. I've been wanting to try SK Rifle Match for a long while but haven't found any. There are a handful of cartridges that have developed a reputation for _generally_ shooting consistently well in many different firearms - CCI Standard Velocity, SK Rifle Match, CCI Velocitors, and others - but that is no guarantee they'll shoot well in your rifle. All you can do is try them yourself.

I spent some hours trawling websites and put together a list of over 160 .22LR cartridges, of those I've put 33 through my Ruger so far to find a handful that shoot well enough to buy bricks of. Many others are probably unobtainable locally anyway, but there are at least another fifty-odd that I eventually want to try.

Regarding your extraction difficulty. Are the bullets actually engraved with the rifling? Could it be that they're simply reaching into the dirty part at the front of the chamber?

I'm curious about the .22LR FMJ, is it the stuff the US Air Force was issuing? I've never seen any but I thought that stuff was plated rather than jacketed.

[Jeff303]

Have a look at the rock island armoury 22.
Its a slightly revamped stirling. Nice thick threaded barrel, shoots like stink. ( ours does)
Has way better quality than you would expect, & doesnt even look bad. All for $285

[bladeracer]

I would stay away from Stirling.

Are new Stirlings worse than they used to be?
In the eighties I had two Stirling Model 20 semi-auto .22LR's and a Model 1500 bolt WMR and they were pretty good value back then.

[Oldbloke]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

[bladeracer]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

You mean it didn't function well or was it inaccurate?

[bladeracer]

He wasn't saying that this particular round was going to shoot well for me. However in the range of ammunition he has tried which I think is quite considerable, and from his own experience in shooting say the different rounds from SK and Eley. he was able to 1) verify that the manufactures ranking of their ammunition quality, for accuracy and consistency (consistency being the most important really) was in fact correct. 2) put a qualitative grading to them at least for him. 3) he knows the $ difference between them all and can then equate the accuracy gain for $ spent. To me that puts him in a position to say "value for money" There is a point like in nearly all things when you start to pay a lot more however only get small gains. It is the point before this is reached in my mind I would say gives you value for money.

I haven't really looked into the details of the hard to unload rounds. I have only had a couple after I found that I had a problem I dealt with it on the few more occasions since I have used that ammo simply by firing the loaded bullet and not re chambering another.

Below is a pic of the FMJ ammo I have from yester year. You are probably correct the 22LR may only be plated solids. The 22 mag well it says FMJ?

bullets.jpg

How does his calculation work when so many of us find the cheaper hunting ammo tends to shoot better than the expensive stuff?
In my experience, price is irrelevant to accuracy - except perhaps when working with match chambers in precision rifles. Generally, there is no linear relationship between accuracy and price with .22LR ammo. Often, paying more gives you _less_ accuracy. Averaging several 10-rd groups at 100m, I got 37.5mm groups from Eley Edge - the only stuff I can consistently shoot under 50mm at 100m, so far at least. RWS Rifle Match, Eley Subsonic HP, CCI Subsonic Segmented HP, RWS HVHP, Highland RX HP, Remington Cyclone, CCI Stinger, CCI Standard Velocity all stay under 75mm groups. Winchester Subsonic Max 42, CCI MiniMag HP, CCI Velocitor, Federal American Eagle HP and Sellier & Bellot Standard hold under 100mm 10-rd groups at 100m.

My intention when the Ruger Target arrives is to put a thousand rounds of bulk (probably CCI SV, Eley Edge, Highland RX and Remington Cyclone) through the barrel to set it up, then spend an entire day shooting at least fifty rounds of everything I can find. Hopefully I'll have a pretty good idea of which ammo shoots particularly well in it after that.

I consider accuracy to be more important than consistency. Consistency can often be improved by batching bulk ammo by weight and rim thickness to weed out the likely fliers. If it can't be improved then simply try something else, there are many dozens of different types of .22LR ammo so you will eventually find something that shoots well in your rifle.

A bullet marked "solid" is not FMJ, it's merely solid lead with no hollow point. WMR is jacketed as it uses .224" bullets. .22LR uses lead .223" bullets.

[bladeracer]

The one point your missing though is that the SK Rifle Match is not what I would call expensive he is selling it at (when I bought it last) $11.20. Which really made it one of the cheaper options compared to nearly every boxed ammo at the LGS. Just that alone with the fact its made in Germany in my mind makes it good value. However good value is each to his own.

You use the term quite often when referring to guns. It is quite a personal evaluation so up to you for me it is.

As for the FMJ I can only go by what is says on the box. If it says FMJ and its not take them to court for false advertising

I don't recall suggesting the SK Rifle Match was expensive. I know what it costs so I didn't miss the point at all. Good value is not relevant to where it's manufactured. Good value is how well it shoots, which can only be determined by shooting it.

Where does it say FMJ on the .22LR box? I can only see FMJ on the two WMR boxes.

[vmaxaust]

So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

TL;DR - Looking at options for a .22 model priced between $300-350 that is accurate, not single shot and would be reliable (don't care about looks).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Let me know if this is an unreasonable proposal given my budget as well.
Cheers[/quote]

Saw your post just this evening. Perhaps I have something you may be interested in. I was just going to post a 22LR CZ452, bolt action, wood stock rifle on the gun sale sites. It may be something you want to consider. I bought the rifle brand new for my daughter to use but like her older brother they used it firing a total of 300-400 rounds and it has not been touched for more than 18 months. It has open sights (no scope) for training my kids with regular sights. They come with a 5 round mag and I bought an extra one. Bought the rifle new in August 2015 for $870.00 plus the cost of the extra magazine.

Rifle looks like the day it was made. Would like to get $500.00
There is a good review of these here...
http://gunreviews.com.au/cz-452-rimfire/

Sam

[Oldbloke]

The last BA Stirling I looked at about 4 years ago was total crap.

You mean it didn't function well or was it inaccurate?

Just had a look in the LGS. Machining very rough and sloppy bolt. Trigger was also very heavy. We looked at about 5 or 6 22lr. It was by far the crappyist.
Purchased a BA Marlin.

[Gwion]

Vmaxaus: those Sportco rifles, linked in the post above, will shoot very well with a little tuning. Most of the ones linked should be quite good rifles.

[bladeracer]

So with a budget of probably only about $300-$350 before I start skipping dinners and lunchs to save money, would anyone be able to recommend a model of .22 that has decent accuracy. I don't really care about looks, but want an accurate gun that isn't a single shot as I will also do quite a bit of hunting with it. I've seen a few .22's in my price range on used gun site's but not sure which ones will be accurate, or a made of good enough quality that they will work for me now and the next couple of years.

I would look for a Remington 513T, although I don't know how common they are in Oz.
I have a 1950 BSA Sportsman 5 that is very pretty, and shoots very well - and they're usually very cheap.
Like this one - https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=98547
Putting scopes on the older rimfires can be difficult as most won't have dovetails so will need drilling.