Educate please - collectors licence (VIC)

[juststarting]

Hi all

So as you may or may not have seen the other thread, conversation went down the 'collectors licence' way and I thought I'd start a new thread.

Completely unknown to me, how the collectors licence process works. For example, I'd like an old Nagant revolver. Why? Because, I'd like an old Nagant revolver.

What are my options with collectors licence?

Are there any additional storage requirements, apart from my already big ass safe that's bolted down in every way?

I assume I need to go and pay for fingerprints?

Can I shoot it at all? When can I shoot it?
What clubs are there, that I need to join?
On club shoots, is it regimented and sh*t or can I just plink at stuff?
Can I start my own club (serious question)?

Do I need to do any other time consuming impossible stuff for me, that Cat H requires?

Is there anything above what I already do on Cat A&B licence; and its associated storage requirements?

Anything else I need to know or just good to know, gotchas, etc?


Thanks heaps

[juststarting]

Forgot to include... What about actual purchase? Logic doesn't come into play here, so I am going to ask:

Are there PTA waiting periods? And do I need to hold collectors licence for 6 months or something, before I am allowed to purchase a pistol?

And a Mauser, I'd like the broom handle too

[Oldbloke]

"I assume I need to go and pay for fingerprints?"

Where can I buy some?
It would come in handy having a spare set if I want to steal your firearms.

[juststarting]

Shush you

[Gun-nut]

For pistols (made before 1947 I believe) such as the mauser and nagant, you should have no serious issues acquiring, for more modern pistols (made after 1947, its a bit difficult) and you'll need to provide a reason why the particular firearm is part of your collection. You can also get CAT C firearms (semi auto .22s and 12ga shotguns) with no mag capacity limits, though if you want to shoot them you'll need to join a club as you mentioned, which club I have no idea unfortunately. For any firearm on a collectors licence that isn't CAT A or B, you'll need to put a temporary lock when stored in the safe (trigger lock etc.) You can take this off when you fire the firearm or are handling it (cleaning etc.) but must put it back on before you store it.

I have no idea about PTAs and waiting periods, so I can't be much help there, though I recommend you call up WLB or LRD (or whatever they call it) and they should help you out there. I forgot to mention that if you have a modern handgun on a collectors licence you will be required to have additional storage or security requirements (alarms from what I've heard, you may want to double check this with someone else). You can also get CAT D on a collector's but it has to be permanently inoperable and has to have the additional storage requirements also (stupid, I know).

Its also worth mentioning that getting a collectors licence is actually quite cheap (at least in QLD and most likely Vic) and this is it's biggest advantage, its cheaper in regard to fees than the other licences.

This is all I can remember of the top of my head, keep us posted if you go ahead with this as I'm interested in getting my collectors licence down the road also.

[juststarting]

Thanks, Gun-nut.
This is why I am asking here, so I don't need to call anyone and understand the specifics i.e. 'no serious issues' - I expect no issues. Why would I have issues. Ergo the thread.

[juststarting]

I was hoping for an executive summary lol

[Supaduke]

Join an approved collectors club/guild
Remain a paid member of said club/guild. Membership criteria varies from club to club. All criteria designed to discourage people using it as a way to circumvent current cat C and cat H restrictions.

Higher categories of collectors license require longer period of membership, ie requires long term commitment to acquire restricted firearms

Make sure you comply with storage requirements

Can't use firearms casually at range, must be an approved shoot.

How's that for a summary

[juststarting]

Yeah....

[AusTac]

Sounds like alot more bullsh^t than what it's worth but i imagine thats EXACTLY why they've made it that hard, still keen just starting?

[Supaduke]

Reality is, if you are genuinely interested in collecting, it's not difficult, just time consuming. Storage requirements are pretty much the same as cat H.

First level of collectors license is antique and pre-47 handguns

After awhile (one year I think ) you can then collect post 47' handguns

After two years you can collect cat C and D firearms.

It's simply designed that way to stop people using it as an easy way to get restricted firearms.

I have looked into it a few times. The Victoria military rifle club I believe is an approved collector club. Although I think you have to add the pistol club component to your membership, no.1 mk3 can probably shed more light on that.

Like I said it's not hard if you are genuine. If you are looking for a dodgy way to own a 10/22 then it's not for you.

Edit : I believe you need to own a certain amount of firearms in the preceding level before you can advance to the next as well.

That is to stop people joining a club, waiting out their time then trying to go straight for a cat C etc.

[cflake]

Edit : I believe you need to own a certain amount of firearms in the preceding level before you can advance to the next as well.

That is to stop people joining a club, waiting out their time then trying to go straight for a cat C etc.

I've looked into it and you need to have been a member for 2 years and have collected at least 15 firearms on your collectors license to get the next level of license which allows post 1947 firearms.

More than 10 ( i think?) firearms needs a monitored alarm, along with more stringent storage requirements - bars on windows, etc.

[bladeracer]

Edit : I believe you need to own a certain amount of firearms in the preceding level before you can advance to the next as well.

That is to stop people joining a club, waiting out their time then trying to go straight for a cat C etc.

I've looked into it and you need to have been a member for 2 years and have collected at least 15 firearms on your collectors license to get the next level of license which allows post 1947 firearms.

More than 10 ( i think?) firearms needs a monitored alarm, along with more stringent storage requirements - bars on windows, etc.

More than 15 firearms in Victoria requires an alarm with a flashing light and siren, not monitored. Bars on windows sounds like a dealer requirement, not private owners.

Although I see that bars are required for Collectors licences.

[Gun-nut]

Bars on windows? Throughout the entire house? If that's true then that's absolute bulls**t. Nothing says suspicious like having bars on windows...

[AusTac]

Bars on windows? Throughout the entire house? If that's true then that's absolute bulls**t. Nothing says suspicious like having bars on windows...

CCTV, Sirens, alarm system, bars on windows... i too would be thinking what the hell has this guy got thats so important, that or he wears tin foil hats, eaither way it would stand out in suburbia

[juststarting]

So basically, I am hearing that it's not worth it...

[Supaduke]

It's worth it if you just like possessing firearms.

It's a way for people to have nice older collectibles in shootable condition without being subjected to attendance
Requirements. Just paid membership.

Access to genuine historical restricted firearms

If you want a nagant you are happy to own but only want to shoot a few times a year, a collectors license can be perfect.

If you want to shoot modern guns regularly, get a pistol license.

[juststarting]

Not really into pistols in general. Older stuff is kinda cool though. Yeah, maybe. *sigh* why is this stuff so complicated

[cracker]

so basically if you wanted to own a Fn/browning sa22 - older semi auto 22lr rifle, youd have to be a member for at least two years before youd be considered?
same deal im guessing on a browning auto 5,id honestly just love to own either or both because of the history of the guy who designed them, hand guns not really being my thing...
any suggestions on what clubs ?

[No1Mk3]

G'day All,
Just want to make a couple of points, bars are not needed throughout, only on the room where you store the collectors items. To mitigate the appearance I fitted mine inside the window glass, not too bad. All Cat D held on the licence must be completely welded, bore, action, trigger group etc. Might as well carve an SLR out of soap. You need to be an active member for 6 months to get the club to endorse your licence application for Cat 1, and you can collect ALL longarms on that licence from the start, and PRE 47 handguns. You need to have the licence for 2 years minimum, as well as own 10 pre-47, before applying for Cat 2. You CANNOT USE any firearm on the licence other than specified events that a Permit has been issued for, and if a Club Permit is issued, you cannot then get an individual permit for that event, ie: you are on the club permit or you don't shoot. Most clubs, my own included, require you to complete a handgun safety course before allowing you to use handguns on the club events. YOU CANNOT COLLECT AMMO!!!! I put that in capitals because some people are not aware of it and have gotten into trouble, big time.
juststarting - it is done to discourage you, F**K 'EM! Do it anyway, don't let them think it's working their way.
cracker - SSAA Military Rifle Club have a Collectors component, but you must be MRC for 6 months first.
- 3MD Pistol Club have a Collectors also, not sure of their requiements
- SSAA Arms & Militaria Collectors Club, probably easiest
- Antique Arms Collectors Guild of Victoria, biggest and best.
- Golden City Collectors, Bendigo
- Northern Victorian Arms Collectors, Shepparton,
The Australian Antique Arms Auction is on this weekend, in Bulleen this time. You can find collectors info there, and me, and poverty! Cheers.

[bladeracer]

All Cat D held on the licence must be completely welded, bore, action, trigger group etc. Might as well carve an SLR out of soap.

http://www.platatac.com/catalogue/weapons.html?dir=desc&limit=100&order=price

Blue Guns are cheaper, no licence required, can be displayed, can even let unlicenced friends handle them.
Still not an actual firearm though

[Gwion]

All Cat D held on the licence must be completely welded, bore, action, trigger group etc. Might as well carve an SLR out of soap.

http://www.platatac.com/catalogue/weapons.html?dir=desc&limit=100&order=price

Blue Guns are cheaper, no licence required, can be displayed, can even let unlicenced friends handle them.
Still not an actual firearm though

$400!!!???!!! For piece of plastic moulded to the shap of a gun???

For the same price I can but a piece of plastic moulded to the shape of a kayak and actually use it as a kayak !

Or, a bolt action rifle that I can actually shoot; ok, not a very good one but a functioning rifle nonetheless.

[bladeracer]

$400!!!???!!! For piece of plastic moulded to the shap of a gun???

For the same price I can but a piece of plastic moulded to the shape of a kayak and actually use it as a kayak !

Or, a bolt action rifle that I can actually shoot; ok, not a very good one but a functioning rifle nonetheless.

I was referencing to No1Mk3's comment about carving them out of soap
And you can buy lots of very good rifles for a few hundred dollars, even brand new ones.

Have you seen the price of replica firearms these days?
https://www.collectorsarmoury.com.au/collections/replica-rifles

$475 for a coach gun??????
$695 for a K98 or No1Mk3????
Pistols aren't as bad but still ridiculous at $300-400 for things like 1911's and Hi-Power's.

These aren't deactivated real firearms, these are made from pot metal.
And (except for WA and Qld) require the same licence and security as if they were real functioning firearms.
As you also need "genuine reason" to own them, unless you're a theatrical armourer, it is actually easier to own the real firearms, in Victoria at least.

I would get a collector's licence if I could actual enjoy the firearms, but not if I can't do anything but fondle them on the occasions I remember that I own them and go looking for them in the back of the safes.

Is there any reason you need a collector's licence rather than a firearms licence? What advantage is there to having your firearms on a collector's licence when you can't use them?

[Supaduke]

Far as I could work out, it's so you can own pistols without range attendance requirements. Collectible, milsurp and police issue pistols being the main sort after so those falling under cat 1.

World War Two and earlier provided a wealth of interesting and unique pistols. It was a time of great innovation and design. Pistol design after the Second World War rapidly declined with battle proven designs become standard (looking at you 1911). A 1950's 1911 is pretty much the same pistol as made today. Pre 47 pistols have genuine historical significance.
These pistols, being old and probably valuable, people want to own them but don't want to shoot them with any sort of regularity. They may not want to shoot them at all. The collectors license allows people to do this.

If you want to own and shoot your pistol regularly, get a regular pistol license. You will then be subject to range attendance requirements.

[bladeracer]

Far as I could work out, it's so you can own pistols without range attendance requirements. Collectible, milsurp and police issue pistols being the main sort after so those falling under cat 1.

World War Two and earlier provided a wealth of interesting and unique pistols. It was a time of great innovation and design. Pistol design after the Second World War rapidly declined with battle proven designs become standard (looking at you 1911). A 1950's 1911 is pretty much the same pistol as made today. Pre 47 pistols have genuine historical significance.
These pistols, being old and probably valuable, people want to own them but don't want to shoot them with any sort of regularity. They may not want to shoot them at all. The collectors license allows people to do this.

If you want to own and shoot your pistol regularly, get a regular pistol license. You will then be subject to range attendance requirements.

Thanks Supa.
I still wouldn't go that way myself. If I was going to own some old pistols I'd shoot them, so attendance wouldn't be a problem for me. I can certainly see value in owning a non-shootable collector's piece, but there's no legal requirement to shoot every pistol you own on a Cat H licence is there?
I've mostly seen it offered as a way to own "normal" firearms that are currently illegal, like 10/22's and such, despite not being able to use them. Not my thing but I'm sure others must find it acceptable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8SNosXHZrg&t=53s&list=PLXE635BIlN2-J7ny5BzmiEJCkZQwocz_T&index=12

[PoorShot300]

nvm...already covered.

[Supaduke]

Yes you can own pistols you don't shoot, but you are still required to attend the range. Also people may only want to own one or two pistols. Lot of dedication required to maintain a pistol license.

Yes it is a way to own some hardware you couldn't get on a normal A,B or H license, such as shorter barrelled pistols and Cat C/D stuff. It is set up the way it is to avoid it being used as a loophole to acquire restricted stuff.

For genuine collectors it works as intended. You acquire your collection over a period of years. Like most things in life, it is simply set up with the tiered categories because if it was too quick and easy people would abuse the system. It weeds out people looking for a workaround for current categories. Those committed to the hobby would not have much trouble complying with the rules.

It may seem dumb and convoluted but it's sadly our own fault. They want to maintain the ability for people to collect important and historical firearms, but avoid it being exploited by those attempting to cheat the system.