Howa 1500 "Slow feed" issue

[FlyingStick]

"They still maintained that I need to action it quickly"

Either they are idiots or they are treating you as one.

Regardless, time for a new gun shop I think!

[Gwion]

Couldn't agree more.

[FlyingStick]

Good news guys!!! Picked up the Howa today after it was repaired under warranty. I was doubtful, however happy to say the issue has been rectified. No one was able to tell me what was wrong with it - will chase it up Monday however primarily I'm just happy to have it back and working as I expect it to.

Funnily enough - the dealer still maintains that it needs to be cycled quickly to feed properly. Taking it home and cycling it super slow just to see has proven them completely wrong...as you can see in the video, when working properly and everything is to spec I can cycle it at any speed I'd like.

https://youtu.be/o9BNriVqJjM

[Oldbloke]

Great to hear.
Guess that means the owner of the LGS is an idiot. I'll stay away from him.

[Oldbloke]

". Finding a good gun store that does really care about customer satisfaction seems a rare thing. "

Getting rare for all business these days.
It's every man for himself.

[Gwion]

Glad you got it sorted.

[JLM500]

Hi mate, I just bought the same gun in 22-250, and had the same issue. What it was, was the spring leaf in the mag, under the top plate was not holding the front of the top plate up high enough. I simply bent the front of the top plate up a little, where the top plate meets the spring so it holds the front of the bullets up a little higher and it was fine from then on!

[Waratah]

Hi, I've has a similar problem with new 1500 in 308. The front of the round seems to come up early and i end up with the bullet nose jamed against top of action behond barrel, and rear under the bolt.

Told by supplier that flat nose rounds not optimum in howa, dissapointing as it was destined to eat cast bullets.

So far ive tried round nose projectiles. Next pay ill try some spitzer bullets.

I'm convinced its the spring, it seems weak compared to 223 which feeds ok.

[marksman]

Perhaps video will help:

https://youtu.be/Sljm3Rqi31Q

https://youtu.be/YC5Z9Xv_yv4

only just seen this
it is the front of the feed lips that need to be opened up a bit, not much at all but that is exactly what it is
take your rifle apart and have a look at the bottom of the feed lips and you will see where they have ground them to fix it if they have not re-blued
the way it was feeding is bending your ammo as it goes in, if you can get it to
these rifles are very good and worth the tuning which is all they need

I have just tuned a mauser 98 to feed 22 dasher cases from a 308, it will now feed empty cases perfectly straight as it should
and at any speed even upside down

[Gamerancher]

That's the thing with Mauser's, It's not called "controlled round feed" for nothing.

[marksman]

That's the thing with Mauser's, It's not called "controlled round feed" for nothing.

one of the thing's I like about them

[crows2332]

One of the most common issues people are posting about on Howa FB pages and forums, is the feeding/cycling issues, that you and many seem to be experiencing.
You listed it earlier in the year, and people picking up firearms recently are still having the issue.
They've really dropped the ball on this as a "known issue" that isn't being rectified, especially with fixes on the fly, bending this and that, cycling only fast, changing to detachable mags and so on, is a friggen joke! The follow up shot is becoming something that they have lost reliability with. Go figure! I keep looking and looking at the Howa barrelled actions, 2nd Vanguard S2's, as it's really hard to dismiss the price point. Far out, that'd do my head in having to stuff around that much just to get something to work at its basic level of functionality. That's before you even get to the rest of the process of, accuracy/bedding or anything else that one starts to tweak things with!

[crows2332]

Had been looking at a 308, and going between a new Howa barrelled action, 2nd hand Weatherby Vanguard, new (but on sale), Browning AB3 and never been fired but 2nd hand Savage Axis.
All for between $450 (Savage & Howa under $500) up to to $695 (Browning).
Really liked the sound of the rock solid action of the Howa/Vanguard (that you could nearly use as a club if you ran out of ammo), but they cycling issues, far out, it's crazy!
Now I've stalled in my thought process.
Howa/Vanguard action might better suit a longer barrel/range modification in a future life being single fed, but initially, walk about/follow up shots, doesn't sound so great at the moment.
So this is a great post you've put up, to get me looking into it a bit more. With a year or more of the known issue, and still being sold from new with the issue isn't a good selling point.
Asides from the price of the new Howa barrelled action & second hand Vanguard S2, are they still worth the hassle of the feeding?Little less confidence in them now.

[marksman]

IMHO I still think these rifles are worth tweaking, being new you can ask to show proof that there is no problem in the first place,
being new they cannot be tweaked by yourself and until warranty period is over must stay original
these feeding issues are a quick fix in the right hands not like a few years back where it was barrels that were not up to scratch
the seller/gunstore needs to look after the customer better and they will not get new guys who are to afraid to buy and think they will be burnt
as the buyer you have consumer law on your side but do not try fixing yourself if under warranty, or if just bought secondhand you are still covered
get the seller who is responsible to send it back or repair

[crows2332]

Note to self: Don't take it back to the LGS in pieces (like some do the Ruger MkII) saying, it fell apart in my hands Chief!

[bigfellascott]

Got 3 Howas and all feed and function fine for me - always have, got lucky I guess.

[crows2332]

Might be the scenario where, you can have hundreds of an item behave, that you'll never hear much about mentioned, but the ones that misbehave, bring the attention to it more so. Good to hear some good examples mixed in.

[Oldbloke]

One would think they check such a basic requirements prior to leaving the factory.
Piss poor if you ask me. But typical of business.

[bigfellascott]

One would think they check such a basic requirements prior to leaving the factory.
Piss poor if you ask me. But typical of business.

You'd think Sako quality control would do better too! Got a mate with 2 sakos that were new from the factory that had stuffed barrels (look like they used a chisel on em)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihURwQQwGlc

[Gamerancher]

"New from the factory with stuffed barrels"? I seriously doubt that bigfella. Why didn't he return them? Seems strange to me. Perhaps they weren't really "new"?
What are the odds of the same bloke getting two "new" rifles that looked like someone had "used a chisel" on them? Sorry ol' mate , calling B.S on that one.

[bigfellascott]

"New from the factory with stuffed barrels"? I seriously doubt that bigfella. Why didn't he return them? Seems strange to me. Perhaps they weren't really "new"?
What are the odds of the same bloke getting two "new" rifles that looked like someone had "used a chisel" on them? Sorry ol' mate , calling B.S on that one.

You can call BS all you like mate, fact is it's true, they were returned and replaced - cals were 222 and 260 from memory - we realised something was wrong when we tried cleaning them, the patches would get tight and grabby type thing, an inspection with my mates bore scope soon revealed the problem!

The rifles were bought around 2mth apart from memory both new from a shop in Brisbane (in the city from memory) and both wouldn't shoot worth s**t either (for obvious reasons) my mate did email the pics from the bore scope too me but I can't find them, you'd be amazed at how bad the bores were, how they got through their inspection system is a mystery but it definitely happened.

And as you can see from the video I put in my original post you can see they definitely have inherent flaws in their designs too, which was also encountered by the same owner of the 2 duds (not sure what cals he was having issues with with the ejection issues - my mate pretty much owns mostly sakos of all models and a few anshultz etc so likes his quality gear.

Got a Tikka myself that doesn't shoot real well (T3x) but I think it's problem is the barrel touches the wooden stock which I thought was odd but I can sort that out easy enough and hopefully that's all the issue is.

[Gamerancher]

I'd say somewhere between factory and your mate getting them, someone f#cked with them. I've seen a brand new barrel completely f#cked by a gunshop using a bore-sighter to set up a scope for a bloke. The fact that they were both from the same gunshop makes me think you may have isolated the problem.
Easier for Sako, or, ( most likely ), the shop in question, to just exchange than prove, not worth the hassle.
As for the ejection problems, even the "expert" in your video states that he didn't know whether it was just a scope mounting problem or not.
There is always the "idiot" factor to contend with no matter what brand of rifle you are talking about.

Fact: Sakos are renowned for their extraction, that's why people get Sako extractors put in their Remingtons, ( and their clones ) , especially in high end target rifles. They do this for reliability.

It's pretty obvious that you like your Howas, that's good, each to his own. But, putting s**t on other brands when a problem with them is discussed, doesn't solve the problem.
Happy hunting.

[bigfellascott]

I'd say somewhere between factory and your mate getting them, someone f#cked with them. I've seen a brand new barrel completely f#cked by a gunshop using a bore-sighter to set up a scope for a bloke. The fact that they were both from the same gunshop makes me think you may have isolated the problem.
Easier for Sako, or, ( most likely ), the shop in question, to just exchange than prove, not worth the hassle.
As for the ejection problems, even the "expert" in your video states that he didn't know whether it was just a scope mounting problem or not.
There is always the "idiot" factor to contend with no matter what brand of rifle you are talking about.

Fact: Sakos are renowned for their extraction, that's why people get Sako extractors put in their Remingtons, ( and their clones ) , especially in high end target rifles. They do this for reliability.

It's pretty obvious that you like your Howas, that's good, each to his own. But, putting s**t on other brands when a problem with them is discussed, doesn't solve the problem.
Happy hunting.

It's not an extraction problem with the sakos it's a ejection problem! Some cals for whatever reason have this issue more than others (brass dropping back in the action or hitting turrets on ejection) both rifles were brand new and nothing done to them as my mate sets his rifles up correctly and wouldn't let some flea from a gun shop near em as he knows they most are incompetent when it comes to setting things up correctly. He uses Optiloks on all his sakos - the problem is well known to those who own and use sakos in the cals affected..

And wasn't hanging s**t on em as you say just pointing out all brands have issues of manufacture no matter their brand name or how much you pay for em they all have a percentage of duds.

I've also owned a Sako and it was an ordinary shooter to say the least, no matter what I did with it it just wouldn't shoot for s**t, my mate now owns it too as he wanted it right or wrong, he knows it doesn't shoot but he will tinker with it and hopefully get it shooting right (it has the worst trigger of any rifle I've ever owned) nothing including a well known trigger guy could get it to where it needed to be to be a decent trigger and possibly the reason why it wouldn't shoot or at least it contributed to it for sure, my mate has a trigger sitting there to put in it which will see that problem solved finally.

cheers

[Gamerancher]

I own and use Sako's, 9 of them all up, that I've put thousands of rounds through each without any of the problems you seem to think are intrinsic to the brand, or even heard of anyone else other than this "evidence" here in this post. What calibres are supposed to be problematic?
Cases hitting the scope is hardly a problem you can blame on the rifle manufacturer, you are after all, talking about a bolt-on, aftermarket accessory. Tried higher mounts to give enough clearance for longer brass? Just because they are Optilocks, doesn't mean they are suited to that particular chambering wearing that particular scope.
There needs to be enough clearance between the scope and action to allow brass to eject at the angle it comes out at. That angle is fixed and determined by the length of the case, the position of the ejector and is independent of how fast or slow you cycle the bolt. The speed will usually only effect how far you send the case off into the dirt.

What this has to do with a problem with Howa's is beyond me , but anyway, that's usually the nature of forums 'ay?

[duncan61]

I purchased a brand new Howa in .243 and it shot straight out the cardboard box it came in like they claimed it would and has performed well.Got a wednesday rifle maybe

[bigfellascott]

I own and use Sako's, 9 of them all up, that I've put thousands of rounds through each without any of the problems you seem to think are intrinsic to the brand, or even heard of anyone else other than this "evidence" here in this post. What calibres are supposed to be problematic?
Cases hitting the scope is hardly a problem you can blame on the rifle manufacturer, you are after all, talking about a bolt-on, aftermarket accessory. Tried higher mounts to give enough clearance for longer brass? Just because they are Optilocks, doesn't mean they are suited to that particular chambering wearing that particular scope.
There needs to be enough clearance between the scope and action to allow brass to eject at the angle it comes out at. That angle is fixed and determined by the length of the case, the position of the ejector and is independent of how fast or slow you cycle the bolt. The speed will usually only effect how far you send the case off into the dirt.

What this has to do with a problem with Howa's is beyond me , but anyway, that's usually the nature of forums 'ay?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 0BJfcIvj3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ig5lgrMSvI

From a thread on AHN

I've owned 3 Sako 85's, the only one that didn't have an ejection issue was the .223. The 25-06 would fling cases into the scope, this resulted in a lot of dings and blemishes on the underside of the scope and windage turret cap.
The 30-06 Black Bear would fling the cases up into the scope and then they would drop back down into the action, it also left a lot of marks on the scope.
On the first hunting trip with the 30-06 I fired 3 shots and got 2 jams from ejected cases falling back into the action.
After consulting with the gun shop and the distributer the recommended solution was to fit higher scope mounts (all 3 rifles had medium height mounts). End result I no longer own any model 85 Sako's.

One mate has an 85 in 9.3x62 and that had no issues. Another has one in 270 and that does have an ejection problem.

I'd suggest trying it out with a scope fitted before buying or at least have an understanding with your dealer before buying that they take it back if it has an ejection issue.

Yep 300wsm. Loved that rifle but couldn't trust it. Turned me to proper Crf rifles and haven't looked back.

My .223 has had issues I don't like the rifle had I known I aould never have bought it.

I had a Sako Finnlight in 270WSM do it. Cases would hit the scope and fall back into the action jamming it when trying to chamber the next round. The rifle was returned for a refund.

Yep had a couple of 85's, 1st Varmit 22-250, wouldn't eject shells properly just dropping them in the breach, 2nd Hunter .223, same problem. 3rd Hunter .338, never had a problem easy over 1,000 rounds, shoots and kills good. Which I've still got and is one of my favourite guns. Got gun cerekoted thou because bluing is poor, same as on Tikka's, buy stainless. Just my thoughts. Frito.

My 85 in 9.3x62 pelted the cases into the scope hard enough to bend the mouth. Then they usually bounced back into the action. :ummmno:

The cure. Mauser M12.

+1 nya: That is exactly what I would be doing from now on with the 85 series.
However I own three Sako 85's (well two as I sold one). A Black Bear in 9.3x62, Sako 85 Varmint Walnut/Fluted Stainless in 22/250 and my 85 Finnlight in 300WSM. I have NEVER had an ejection problem with any of these rifles and all have low mounted scopes. My Black Bear and Finnlight actually have Extra Low Optilocks.

well count yourself as lucky. I also had a blackbear, and it threw the cases into the scope turret. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but then Ive also been cycling bolt actions longer than you've been alive

defend the 85 all you like, I wouldn't buy another one just in case it was also a lemon

Sounds like you got lucky. Mate bought a 7/08 and 223 both at the same time - both do it

As you can see from all the different quotes there are definitely issues with ejection on the 85 action!

[pete1]

Ive got a older howa in 223 Probably 15 years old now, loved it so brought a 308 brand new both work fine no feeding issues what so ever.

[pete1]

Ive never heard of one in stainless having any problems all i've heard of is blued. maybe when they make them out of different materials something in the process is different causing imperfections.

[bigfellascott]

Ive never heard of one in stainless having any problems all i've heard of is blued. maybe when they make them out of different materials something in the process is different causing imperfections.

All mine are blued and no issues. Haven't seen anything yet manufactured that doesn't have issues with some of them, bloody Honda lawnmower I own was supposed to be "Guaranteed to Start" easily but the bloody thing never did, about 10yrs I put up with it and one day I was speaking to a local small engine fella who said it's common, bring it down and I will sort it in about 2sec, all it was was the throttle cable needed a small adjustment so the choke would be fully closed off, it's been a PITA since new and all it took was a tweak on a screwdriver and adjust the cable slightly and now it's spot on, 1st pull every time now.

He reckons their tolerences need looking at from the factory, he's had plenty of them in and they all have exactly the same issue straight from the factory.

[marksman]

Ive got a older howa in 223 Probably 15 years old now, loved it so brought a 308 brand new both work fine no feeding issues what so ever.

I have my old deceased uncles cmc mountaineer made in japan by howa (howa butt plate) and it's a beauty has awesome fiddleback in the walnut

your right bigfella all makes can have issues, I've seen tikka's with the same ejection problems as you talk about, still rate them though
obviously the howa's are not getting as much or as good QC at the moment, they are good rifle's and I recon the company's under the pump trying to compete and keep there prices down, I would rather have to do a little tweaking than replace but it all puts off the new buyer
what ******'s me though is the "you can buy an aftermarket replacement part to fix that" attitude, you can make a budget rifle very costly
some people want to bling there latest toy and good for them but me I buy a rifle because I want that rifle and expect it to work