Lithgow Model 12 age?

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Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2017, 12:37 pm

Anybody know how to date an early Lithgow?
I just pulled the barrel out of a Model 12 #34032 which I'm going to put into my father-in-law's 1940 Remington 510 to get it shooting again. I'm guessing the Lithgow is about '47/'48 vintage. Beautiful little rifle, but the owner is determined that he's handing it in for destruction. Very sad to see it go that way but at least the barrel will live on.

I shot some groups with it yesterday and it shoots almost as well as my 1950 BSA Sportsman 5, despite an odd sight picture - V-notch rear with a bead front - is that standard on these? Best group was 5rds of CCI SV into 25.5mm at 25m - 3.5MoA. I'm hoping the accuracy will carry across to the Remington.

I shot a bunch with the Remington last week to determine what it is actually capable of. Best I managed was one 113mm group at 25m. 140mm was more the norm. I pulled the bullets from some Remington Cyclones and chambered the charged brass behind some .224" 35gn NTX's and they grouped 35mm so I was thinking of reaming it to WMR to use jacketed .224" bullets. I then pushed an NTX through the bore. It jumps a few times at the chamber and muzzle but the middle part of the barrel it basically fell through - I think it's just one long bulge.

I have a choice of an Anschutz 1516 WMR barrel or the Lithgow. The WMR has some novelty value but the Lithgow barrel is almost identical in appearance to the original so I think that's the best option for the rifle. I want to keep Bob's 510 in the family and hand it on to one of Bob's sons as a shootable rifle, not just a very inaccurate safe ornament. We can't think of anything else that Bob kept for seventy-five years, so to me it has significant family value. He got it for his birthday, December 5th, 1940.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by Daddybang » 15 Jun 2017, 1:34 pm

Oldguns.net might have some info. :thumbsup:
Or try the Lithgow arms museum
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 15 Jun 2017, 4:48 pm

That is the standard sights. That is a crime handing that in for destruction. Take the barrel, and stock and I won't cry as much.Why are they do determined to destroy it. Surely at least giving it to a dealer to sell would feel nearly as good.
There aren't too many rimfire barrels that would be as good as an old Lithgow 12 barrel.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2017, 5:48 pm

deanp100 wrote:That is the standard sights. That is a crime handing that in for destruction. Take the barrel, and stock and I won't cry as much.Why are they do determined to destroy it. Surely at least giving it to a dealer to sell would feel nearly as good. There aren't too many rimfire barrels that would be as good as an old Lithgow 12 barrel.


Although the rifle is overall in pretty good condition, the bolt handle has been broken off at some point and brazed back on. And the front mag catch is broken off, so the mag keeps dropping out. He doesn't think it's financially worth bringing up to salable condition as he reckons he can get $100 at least just for the stock and magazine, without taking up valuable acreage in the safe.

He only wanted $100 for the rifle as is, including the mag, but I already have five .22's and another would just take up space that I could put something else in. And, while I really hated doing it, I'm really happy to think the barrel will hopefully go into keeping an even older rifle shooting for many years to come. If I hadn't come along the whole thing would probably have been destroyed!

I stripped out the receiver, and I assume he plans to keep everything except the barrel (with sights) which I have, and the receiver he's handing in. The front sights are virtually identical but the rears are not compatible - the Remington is screwed to the barrel, the Lithgow is dovetailed. I'll probably put a set of Ruger sights on it though. The barrel and all the original pieces of the 510 will be put away and when the family finally finishes shooting it maybe it can go up on display in its original form. The Lithgow stock in particular I think is outstanding so if you know anybody chasing bits, let me know and I'll put them in touch.

I just need to turn 0.020" off the barrel threads and it'll slide into the Remington. I can't find the notes from when I measured the headspace, but I've already shimmed the bolt head 0.008" from memory, so I want to tighten the headspace up a fair bit during the barrel swap.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 15 Jun 2017, 6:20 pm

True. There is no mag catch, only a piece of spring steel that keeps pressure on the back of the magazine. I have eight mod 12's and most look like the bolt handle was brazed on. Some where screwed in cleanly and I can only assume the regularity of the apparent brazing would indicate factory work.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by JJD » 15 Jun 2017, 6:25 pm

My old man has a model 12 without a magazine. Do you know what the owner might want for his mag?
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2017, 6:33 pm

deanp100 wrote:True. There is no mag catch, only a piece of spring steel that keeps pressure on the back of the magazine. I have eight mod 12's and most look like the bolt handle was brazed on. Some where screwed in cleanly and I can only assume the regularity of the apparent brazing would indicate factory work.


From what I could tell, there appear to be two spring catches at the front and rear of the magwell. The front one is missing, although there was a broken tab still under the bolt. I never even looked at the mag so I can't really tell how it's retained.
I should've taken a photo of the bolt handle. This doesn't "look like" it was brazed on, this was most certainly brazed on, and I would struggle to accept it as being factory done.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2017, 6:33 pm

JJD wrote:My old man has a model 12 without a magazine. Do you know what the owner might want for his mag?



I can only ask :-)
Will let you know.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 15 Jun 2017, 6:42 pm

It is a very common look and yet I have never heard anything about breakages of the bolt handle, and there would have had to have been a lot. They must have tried really hard to break the mag well springs.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 15 Jun 2017, 6:47 pm

JJD wrote:My old man has a model 12 without a magazine. Do you know what the owner might want for his mag?

The mags aren't real hard to find but do command decent money for originals. You can buy after markets for $85 from many gunshops or look around for any Winchester rimfire magazines which also fit. I will let the op answer but if that draws a blank I have about twenty of the things.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jun 2017, 7:41 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JJD wrote:My old man has a model 12 without a magazine. Do you know what the owner might want for his mag?



I can only ask :-)
Will let you know.


I'm surprised, but he says he'll take $45 for a mate of mine :-)
If you want it. PM your details and I'll get it off him and mail it to you - unless you or your old man is somewhere in Gippsland and I might be able to bring it to you.
As I said, I haven't seen it, and I really can't try it now to confirm how well it works. But I can get it to you for a start.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 15 Jun 2017, 7:54 pm

That's a good deal.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by JJD » 15 Jun 2017, 8:13 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
JJD wrote:My old man has a model 12 without a magazine. Do you know what the owner might want for his mag?



I can only ask :-)
Will let you know.


I'm surprised, but he says he'll take $45 for a mate of mine :-)
If you want it. PM your details and I'll get it off him and mail it to you - unless you or your old man is somewhere in Gippsland and I might be able to bring it to you.
As I said, I haven't seen it, and I really can't try it now to confirm how well it works. But I can get it to you for a start.


Thanks. Have sent you a pm.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by bladeracer » 17 Jun 2017, 3:47 pm

JJD wrote:Thanks. Have sent you a pm.


Couple pics of the mag. Functions smoothly after a clean and a touch of grease. Spring appears to have been tweaked slightly at some point, but does seem to work fine.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by deanp100 » 17 Jun 2017, 5:18 pm

5 shot. Rarer than the ten.
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Re: Lithgow Model 12 age?

Post by JJD » 17 Jun 2017, 7:25 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JJD wrote:Thanks. Have sent you a pm.


Couple pics of the mag. Functions smoothly after a clean and a touch of grease. Spring appears to have been tweaked slightly at some point, but does seem to work fine.


Looks good to me, thanks.
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