CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 19 Jun 2017, 12:16 pm

will update after try it again
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 19 Jun 2017, 12:47 pm

Very, very nice my friend, and great photography to boot. Have you considered running lead through her?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 19 Jun 2017, 1:39 pm

in2anity wrote:Very, very nice my friend, and great photography to boot. Have you considered running lead through her?


thanks
you mean lead projectiles? no idea about it, will be safe for all lead? the projectile .311 123GR is very hard to find, I thought about reload but really not easy to find the projectiles, if can make it by myself will be good news
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 19 Jun 2017, 2:29 pm

SHV wrote:
in2anity wrote:Very, very nice my friend, and great photography to boot. Have you considered running lead through her?


thanks
you mean lead projectiles? no idea about it, will be safe for all lead? the projectile .311 123GR is very hard to find, I thought about reload but really not easy to find the projectiles, if can make it by myself will be good news


Sure it's safe - worst case (fail) scenario you incorrectly use jacketed load data and the lead cuts and fails to obturate + plus makes a big leading mess of your barrel, leaving you in for a big cleanup job to rid the leading deposits (btw trust me, don't do this!). Nope you'd have to use reduced loads to stabilise the softer lead; in the realms of 1/2 a normal hot jacketed load. There is data out there regarding this if you do some digging.

Whilst I've never attempted it personally, I know for a fact the 7.62x39 cartridge can work with lead, especially in a bolt-gun. Most lead data points towards a heavier projectile; around the 160gn mark. If you don't want to cast yourself, a lighter projectile might still work. Hawkesbury River Bullet Company do 32-20s - they're a 115gn Round Nose Flat Point Bevel Base, sized to .313" (just about perfect for the grooves of the 7.62x39 cartridge). You could always request a sample and try them over 70% Trail Boss to err on the side of caution. A good bullet-to-bore fit is essential for accuracy, it would be worth slugging your barrel beforehand if possible. Actually come to think of it, Westcastings do a 165gn .30cal sized to .311 (it's a 30/30 round) - thats pretty close to what you'd need - they might even be able to size them to .312, that would be perfect for your rifle.

What's the twist rate on it? You might be able to get away with a 180gn .303 projectile sized to .311", but you'd have to seat them short so you'd need to be weary of compressing the load. Depends if it can stabilise the long 180gn bullet.

TBH acquiring and reloading lead for a 7.62x39 has been on my bucket list for some time, just never had the time or the funds - I've also had my eye on the Howa Mini-Action (which also comes in the 7.62x39 round), but your 527 could also fit this bill nicely. They're a beautiful rifle - nicer than the Howas IMO.

This rifle would make an excellent practice / plinker (cheap + accurate) if you can get it to group with lead. Prolly even be good out to 300m albeit a bit of a rainbow.
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 20 Jun 2017, 12:52 pm

in2anity wrote:
SHV wrote:
in2anity wrote:Very, very nice my friend, and great photography to boot. Have you considered running lead through her?


thanks
you mean lead projectiles? no idea about it, will be safe for all lead? the projectile .311 123GR is very hard to find, I thought about reload but really not easy to find the projectiles, if can make it by myself will be good news


Sure it's safe - worst case (fail) scenario you incorrectly use jacketed load data and the lead cuts and fails to obturate + plus makes a big leading mess of your barrel, leaving you in for a big cleanup job to rid the leading deposits (btw trust me, don't do this!). Nope you'd have to use reduced loads to stabilise the softer lead; in the realms of 1/2 a normal hot jacketed load. There is data out there regarding this if you do some digging.

Whilst I've never attempted it personally, I know for a fact the 7.62x39 cartridge can work with lead, especially in a bolt-gun. Most lead data points towards a heavier projectile; around the 160gn mark. If you don't want to cast yourself, a lighter projectile might still work. Hawkesbury River Bullet Company do 32-20s - they're a 115gn Round Nose Flat Point Bevel Base, sized to .313" (just about perfect for the grooves of the 7.62x39 cartridge). You could always request a sample and try them over 70% Trail Boss to err on the side of caution. A good bullet-to-bore fit is essential for accuracy, it would be worth slugging your barrel beforehand if possible. Actually come to think of it, Westcastings do a 165gn .30cal sized to .311 (it's a 30/30 round) - thats pretty close to what you'd need - they might even be able to size them to .312, that would be perfect for your rifle.

What's the twist rate on it? You might be able to get away with a 180gn .303 projectile sized to .311", but you'd have to seat them short so you'd need to be weary of compressing the load. Depends if it can stabilise the long 180gn bullet.

TBH acquiring and reloading lead for a 7.62x39 has been on my bucket list for some time, just never had the time or the funds - I've also had my eye on the Howa Mini-Action (which also comes in the 7.62x39 round), but your 527 could also fit this bill nicely. They're a beautiful rifle - nicer than the Howas IMO.

This rifle would make an excellent practice / plinker (cheap + accurate) if you can get it to group with lead. Prolly even be good out to 300m albeit a bit of a rainbow.


good to know, thanks a lot :friends:

a little bite complicated for me though :crazy:
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by No1Mk3 » 20 Jun 2017, 1:26 pm

G'fday SHV,
If you want to reload jacketed projectiles for your rifle, Hornady 150g 303 projectiles are .3105" diameter and perfect for the Russian calibres. I load them in 7.62x54R for the Nagant. I have been thinking of a short rifle in this calibre, due to access to 1000's of rounds of leftover Norinco ammo, and this one looks very good. Just need a Howa owner to post his for comparison, Cheers.
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 20 Jun 2017, 1:38 pm

SHV wrote:a little bite complicated for me though :crazy:


Sorry to beat the dead horse, but if your rifle is a 1:9.5 twist (which I think it might be after a couple of quick searches), it might come close to stabilising a British 303 cast lead bullet (180gn), which HRBC produce. Trail Boss would do the trick at least to start with. In fact so long as you don't compress Trail Boss, it's a very safe powder that can be used without formal load data. Hodgon formally state the following practice for developing your own custom loads:

. . . . if you don't see Trail Boss data for your favourite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications.

1. Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weight. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

2. Take 70% of this powder charge weight ( multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7 ), and this is your starting load.

3. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!"


To get the correct seat-depth, simply cut down the side of an empty shell with a dremel or fine hacksaw, seat the round, chamber and carefully close the bolt. The projectile will engage with the lands, pushing it deeper giving you the minimum seat depth for that projectile. From there you can follow the steps above to get your 70% TB load. On a side note, this 70% TB load would almost certainly be well-subsonic, so a fantastic plinking load.

Does anybody else believe a 1:9.5 18.5" 7.62mm [ Ø lands = 7.62 millimetres (0.300 in), Ø grooves = 7.92 millimetres (0.312 in) ] barrel would stabilise the 180gr Brit? Blade?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 20 Jun 2017, 2:57 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:due to access to 1000's of rounds of leftover Norinco ammo, and this one looks very good. Just need a Howa owner to post his for comparison, Cheers.
where is this ammo you speak of? as in you have it? :friends:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Gun-nut » 20 Jun 2017, 7:46 pm

in2anity wrote:
SHV wrote:a little bite complicated for me though :crazy:


Sorry to beat the dead horse, but if your rifle is a 1:9.5 twist (which I think it might be after a couple of quick searches), it might come close to stabilising a British 303 cast lead bullet (180gn), which HRBC produce. Trail Boss would do the trick at least to start with. In fact so long as you don't compress Trail Boss, it's a very safe powder that can be used without formal load data. Hodgon formally state the following practice for developing your own custom loads:

. . . . if you don't see Trail Boss data for your favourite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications.

1. Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weight. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!

2. Take 70% of this powder charge weight ( multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7 ), and this is your starting load.

3. Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!"


To get the correct seat-depth, simply cut down the side of an empty shell with a dremel or fine hacksaw, seat the round, chamber and carefully close the bolt. The projectile will engage with the lands, pushing it deeper giving you the minimum seat depth for that projectile. From there you can follow the steps above to get your 70% TB load. On a side note, this 70% TB load would almost certainly be well-subsonic, so a fantastic plinking load.

Does anybody else believe a 1:9.5 18.5" 7.62mm [ Ø lands = 7.62 millimetres (0.300 in), Ø grooves = 7.92 millimetres (0.312 in) ] barrel would stabilise the 180gr Brit? Blade?


Thanks for posting that, I'm thinking of getting into reloading for the .303 in the near future and when I do, I might just try that method out. Seems quite simple and should be great for a plinking load, just as you said.
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 21 Jun 2017, 8:26 am

Gun-nut wrote:Thanks for posting that, I'm thinking of getting into reloading for the .303 in the near future and when I do, I might just try that method out. Seems quite simple and should be great for a plinking load, just as you said.


Mate you're welcome :drinks: Actually the traditional 303 Brit is a recognised cast lead shooter, so you shouldn't have much trouble finding reloading information about this application. The 7.62x39 on the other hand, it's is a bit more of an outlyer (shooting lead). Still, with a bit of experimentation I strongly believe you could get one to stabilise lead (only in a bolt gun I might add, gas blowback feeds are a whole other ball game).

I can buy 500 pre-made cast-lead projectiles for around $70 from my LGS, even cheaper if I buy larger quantities. Couple this with Trail Boss and you've got yourself a very economical centerfire setup that is easier on your brass, easier on your barrel/rifle and not to mention easier on you. And if you want to take it a step further, you could always cast your own - casting your own obviously gives you ultimate control (and thus ultimate satisfaction), and IMO kind of represents the pinnacle of mastering the cast-lead projectile. Unfortunately at this stage I don't have the time, space or funds to be casting my own bullets, but that's OK because the store-bought ones are perfectly adequate for my everyday plinking needs.

Hope this helps, good luck :thumbsup:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by wrenchman » 21 Jun 2017, 9:21 am

good looking gun nice groups
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 21 Jun 2017, 10:28 am

No1Mk3 wrote:G'fday SHV,
If you want to reload jacketed projectiles for your rifle, Hornady 150g 303 projectiles are .3105" diameter and perfect for the Russian calibres. I load them in 7.62x54R for the Nagant. I have been thinking of a short rifle in this calibre, due to access to 1000's of rounds of leftover Norinco ammo, and this one looks very good. Just need a Howa owner to post his for comparison, Cheers.


really good news :drinks: will check my LGS :lol:
Howa is good but no iron sight...
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 21 Jun 2017, 10:29 am

FullSizeRender (26)_副本.jpg
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Heckler303 » 21 Jun 2017, 4:29 pm

I don't wanna be that guy...

But you can shoot .303 bullets through them as long as they are on the smaller end (.311/.312). Sorry, had to say it :lol:
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 22 Jun 2017, 3:11 pm

after dig the stock, re-zeroing the scope, 3 shot group
211333wq4zzznwqq99lwll.jpg
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 22 Jun 2017, 3:12 pm

5 shot group
211430lyhccja86tcc8uct.jpg
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Pythonkeeper » 22 Jun 2017, 5:57 pm

I've been interested in this cal lately, and this rifle in particular but the synthetic stock version without iron sights. The fact that factory ammo is only around the price of 223 makes it even more appealing.

Here's a link that I just came across while researching something else. http://youtu.be/jcRE5j8e-vw
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 22 Jun 2017, 6:47 pm

Pythonkeeper wrote:Here's a link that I just came across while researching something else. http://youtu.be/jcRE5j8e-vw

I saw that video - confirms that it's indeed possible. That dude is incredibly thorough (hats off), but you probably wouldn't need gas-checks so long as the projectile was a little harder and you didn't try to push it too fast. A simple pan-lube would probably also be adequate if you weren't pushing them crazy fast.
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by happyhunter » 23 Jun 2017, 3:11 pm

Shoots like a CZ :)
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by TBJ » 23 Jun 2017, 11:01 pm

Very nice rifle, and it seems to shoot beautiful, I've been looking at the .223 version of this for a while never thought of the 7.62
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Milsurp98 » 24 Jun 2017, 4:33 am

No1Mk3 wrote:G'fday SHV,
If you want to reload jacketed projectiles for your rifle, Hornady 150g 303 projectiles are .3105" diameter and perfect for the Russian calibres. I load them in 7.62x54R for the Nagant. I have been thinking of a short rifle in this calibre, due to access to 1000's of rounds of leftover Norinco ammo, and this one looks very good. Just need a Howa owner to post his for comparison, Cheers.


If you intend to shoot mil surp 7.62x39 ammo then the CZ is actually designed for it more so than commercial brass. The CZ web site even actually states that commercial brass may have troubles in the CZ. Pretty much the reason I bought a Howa Mini 20" varmint over the CZ. I have no intentions of firing mil surp or lead projectiles in my 7.62x39.
PPU factory ammo works great in my Howa. And at $79/100 it is cheaper than the brass lol. PPU brass reloads fine. I am on my 3rd loading for some, but have only neck sized so far. Brass is still under max length.
A great projectile is the Australian made "The Bullet Factory" .311 130gr HP. Excellent groups out of the Howa Mini. Their .311 150gr HP work great in my 7.62x54R Nagant M44 as well.
Hornady make the 123gr SST that shoots great also.
Not sure why anyone would want to shoot a 150gr out of the little 7.62x39. The 123-130gr is all that's needed.
Attachments
18741365_10209277767292977_959244239_n.jpg
The Bullet Factory .311 130gr HP
18741365_10209277767292977_959244239_n.jpg (83.17 KiB) Viewed 8158 times
IMG_2743a.JPG
10 shot group with a hot barrel 80 meters. The Bullt factory .311 130gr HP
IMG_2743a.JPG (817.92 KiB) Viewed 8158 times
IMG_2686A.JPG
Howa Mini action 20" Varmint 7.62x39
IMG_2686A.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 8158 times
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Milsurp98 » 24 Jun 2017, 4:38 am

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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 24 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

Milsurp98 wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:G'fday SHV,
If you want to reload jacketed projectiles for your rifle, Hornady 150g 303 projectiles are .3105" diameter and perfect for the Russian calibres. I load them in 7.62x54R for the Nagant. I have been thinking of a short rifle in this calibre, due to access to 1000's of rounds of leftover Norinco ammo, and this one looks very good. Just need a Howa owner to post his for comparison, Cheers.


If you intend to shoot mil surp 7.62x39 ammo then the CZ is actually designed for it more so than commercial brass. The CZ web site even actually states that commercial brass may have troubles in the CZ. Pretty much the reason I bought a Howa Mini 20" varmint over the CZ. I have no intentions of firing mil surp or lead projectiles in my 7.62x39.
PPU factory ammo works great in my Howa. And at $79/100 it is cheaper than the brass lol. PPU brass reloads fine. I am on my 3rd loading for some, but have only neck sized so far. Brass is still under max length.
A great projectile is the Australian made "The Bullet Factory" .311 130gr HP. Excellent groups out of the Howa Mini. Their .311 150gr HP work great in my 7.62x54R Nagant M44 as well.
Hornady make the 123gr SST that shoots great also.
Not sure why anyone would want to shoot a 150gr out of the little 7.62x39. The 123-130gr is all that's needed.


really nice rifle and very useful info, thanks a lot, already contact them for the order, do they post to home address? no need post to dealer?
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 24 Jun 2017, 11:25 am

Yes good info - about as cheap as you can get for jacketed projectiles
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by SHV » 24 Jun 2017, 1:32 pm

found this, looks like the Berrys not bad

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... ff.583169/
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 24 Jun 2017, 3:38 pm

SHV wrote:found this, looks like the Berrys not bad

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... ff.583169/


Not bad - but the again not great either. As a comparison, here's a 5 shot cast-lead 100yd group out of my 30/30:

IMG_5343.JPG
IMG_5343.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 8132 times


They're zipping along at 1500fps.
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Milsurp98 » 24 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

really nice rifle and very useful info, thanks a lot, already contact them for the order, do they post to home address? no need post to dealer?[/quote]
Presuming you are talking about the Bullet Factory projectiles. They are only projectiles. Post to your door
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Milsurp98 » 24 Jun 2017, 9:45 pm

SHV wrote:found this, looks like the Berrys not bad

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?t ... ff.583169/


Check the Berry's web site. https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-762x39-312-123gr-sp
They state that their 123gr plated projectile is only rated for speeds up to 1900 fps. My manuals list minimum loads around 2170 fps for the 123-125gr. So Berry's needs some magical load to produce these reduced velocities. Thinking the only safe way would be something like trail boss. I have no experience with trail boss as i do not load reduced loads.
I am very cautious of playing with minimum loads, let alone trying to load less than minimum to stay around Berry's recommended 1900 fps.
I would steer clear of Berry's. And would rather try HRBC cast projectiles if I wanted to try cast. Gas checked and driving them at more suitable velocities.
I have loaded HRBC cast projectiles in some of my mil surps: 303, 308, 30-06, 7.62x54R, All gas checked, and all at normal velocities. They all worked good except some 303's. Only successful in about 2 of the 8 x 303's i tried. Some of these old clackers have terrible over bored barrels and only produced big clouds of smoke and 2 meter groups lol.
Have since given up on cast projectiles and only shoot jacketed projectiles now. Not worth all the extra hassle loading them.
Only cast projectiles i use now are in the 44 mag lever action where you can drive them full speed without gas checking the. Great cheap fun.
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IMG_2432a.JPG
7.62x54R HRBC gas checked
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by Milsurp98 » 24 Jun 2017, 9:55 pm

Tested some of the Bullet Factory .311 150gr HP in my 7.62x54R M44 Nagant today. Very impressed
Great grouping for open sights.
Great results in the Chrony.
Will be sticking with these Bullet factory projectiles in my 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R.
Will order some .308 150gr HP to try in my 308 (7.62x51) Israeli Mauser 98.
Attachments
IMG_3020aM44.JPG
Chrony data photo is the 7.62x54R with the 150gr Bullet factory handloads, and PPU 180gr factory ammo. No wonder the PPU goes boom lol,
IMG_3020aM44.JPG (256.52 KiB) Viewed 8120 times
IMG_3008a.JPG
Bullet factory .311 150gr HP. Open sights
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Re: CZ527 carbine 7.62x39

Post by in2anity » 24 Jun 2017, 11:23 pm

Milsurp98 wrote:Tested some of the Bullet Factory .311 150gr HP in my 7.62x54R M44 Nagant today. Very impressed
Great grouping for open sights.
Great results in the Chrony.
Will be sticking with these Bullet factory projectiles in my 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R.
Will order some .308 150gr HP to try in my 308 (7.62x51) Israeli Mauser 98.


What distance was that target at?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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