Next rifle

[FlyingStick]

OK.

I'm going to keep this one short and simple.

I currently have two in the safe, my Howa .223 (god I love that thing!) and my 12GA Miroku.

I recently scored permission on a 350 ish acre property, however there are a few houses around which made me a little uneasy blowing away on the .223. The place had a lot of rabbits running around the perimiter and I'm told there is the odd fox around.

I'd like something smaller to keep the noise down. I'm thinking .22, just not sure if I want LR or WMR. It's primary use will be hunting however as we all do, I enjoy plinking away when given the opportunity. My target species at current is bunnies and foxes, don't have access to property that contains anything bigger atm.

What fills the gap best? I love that the LR is dirt cheap, however I am concerned it won't give me the range and punch I require.

Lastly - any suggestions to brands/models would be super. Prefer timber stock as I want this to be my sons first gun (he's only 9 months but I want him to have nice things handed down to him )

Cheers guys!

[in2anity]

Get an LR - WMR is kind of a "dying breed" and ammo is getting pricey. The 22LR is more than capable for your requirements; just be sure to get a varmint/target rifle + a nice varmint/target scope.

Here's a few that spring to mind:
- Lithgow la101 (walnut)
- Ruger American Rimfire Target
- CZ 452 HB / Brno Model 2 (used)
- Anschütz 64 sporter, for example Anschütz 1416D
- Savage Mk2 varmint
to name but a few...

Or you could get a lever if you plan on having some offhand fun, you could try one of those Chiappa LA322s - they handle like a full-sized rifle and are based on the legendary Marlin 39a action. Real nice.

[happyhunter]

I'd consider a 17HMR over the 22WMR, otherwise a 22LR.

[Gwion]

Invest in some reloading gear and load your 223rem down with Trailboss. It will shoot about 200fps faster with 50gn bullets (mine clock 1850fps with 18" barrel) than the 22wmr and will give you point and shoot range (max point blank) out to about 120m. Much more reliable for foxes than 22lr and cheaper to shoot than the 22wmr.

And get a 22lr just because.

[in2anity]

1710 DHB:D

Ooh la la - the legendary 54 action. Smooth like that butter and locks up like a bank vault. Of course the 1710 DHB is perhaps the ultimate sporting/crossover 22 - but you pay for it. They're also quite heavy- just keep that in mind if you plan on refinancing your home to buy one.

[FlyingStick]

Invest in some reloading gear and load your 223rem down with Trailboss. It will shoot about 200fps faster with 50gn bullets (mine clock 1850fps with 18" barrel) than the 22wmr and will give you point and shoot range (max point blank) out to about 120m. Much more reliable for foxes than 22lr and cheaper to shoot than the 22wmr.

And get a 22lr just because.

Hmm. Interesting idea! What's the sound like with Trailboss powder? Comparable to 22wmr?

Starting to think it's either 22LR or reloading. Both have their merits - but I know eventually I would have reloaded to cut down costs...

All of my mates are telling me 22mag, but I'm just not sure I can justify the extra cost of ammo when I will likely have my .223 with me when I'm using the .22, unless of course I'm walking the field.

[Spooner]

Scratch that i reckon you should get a Savage model 24, .22 lr 20ga combo gun, a good quality little gun that will last a lifetime.
The 22 fills the need and the 20ga is a great little fox / bunny killer and a good way to get the kids into shotguning!

Fun little combo, other than the 20ga ammo cost being a little rich

[FlyingStick]

As above but if you have the money for a Anschutz, again I would agree with the varmint/target rifle I would go for the 1710 DHB and never look back. 400 acres is pretty big its about 1.5km by 1.5km should be enough room for a 308 which would be my recommendation. I don't think there is a more versatile caliber. of course others will have there own opinion, don't we all

It's noise I'm also trying to keep down too however. I'm just not sure what the neighbors appetite for noise is, particularly at night...

I had originally planned to go 308 next, but I just don't have any need for it atm.

[in2anity]

Hmm. Interesting idea! What's the sound like with Trailboss powder? Comparable to 22wmr?

Yes - in the field, I shoot Trail Boss loads without hearing protection (not that I condone this).

[Gwion]

Invest in some reloading gear and load your 223rem down with Trailboss. It will shoot about 200fps faster with 50gn bullets (mine clock 1850fps with 18" barrel) than the 22wmr and will give you point and shoot range (max point blank) out to about 120m. Much more reliable for foxes than 22lr and cheaper to shoot than the 22wmr.

And get a 22lr just because.

Hmm. Interesting idea! What's the sound like with Trailboss powder? Comparable to 22wmr?

Starting to think it's either 22LR or reloading. Both have their merits - but I know eventually I would have reloaded to cut down costs...

All of my mates are telling me 22mag, but I'm just not sure I can justify the extra cost of ammo when I will likely have my .223 with me when I'm using the .22, unless of course I'm walking the field.

Yep. I and a few mates agree that it sounds very similar to 22wmr and not too loud at all.

[in2anity]

But seriously though mate - you need a 22lr. There's so many other reasons to shoot a 22lr before anything else (provided it's acceptable for your requirements). Reloading is great, but time is money.

[FlyingStick]

But seriously though mate - you need a 22lr. There's so many other reasons to shoot a 22lr before anything else (provided it's acceptable for your requirements). Reloading is great, but time is money.

Yep. I was sitting here thinking about it and though reloading is something I will need to do but I really want to be out there shooting too. And time is something I have very little of when I'm not home for over 13hours of my day, M-F!

Seems consensus is LR over WMR then.

Time to go shopping!

Can you trust dealers with Second hand rifles?

[Gwion]

Once you work out your load you can knock out 50 rounds in 1/2 hour or so. I do all my brass prep while watching tv/chilling out at night so i don't count that in my 'reloading time'; just talking prime, charge, seat bullet. Honestly, you will spend more time driving to the gun shop and farting about while you restock with ammo.

[FlyingStick]

Will the down loaded .223 leave much to eat on a bunny?

[Cooper]

I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!

[bigfellascott]

Will the down loaded .223 leave much to eat on a bunny?

If you shoot it in the head it will.

[Gwion]

I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!

You must have had a crap 22wmr to shoot or it had terrible ammo. I was shooting one the other week at 100yd. Not much good with one type of ammo but with the other it was shooting MOA easily.

[Gwion]

Will the down loaded .223 leave much to eat on a bunny?

If you shoot it in the head it will.

Yep. ^^^

Don't get me wrong, i still think you need a 22lr in the box but you will have more reliable success on foxes with a down loaded 223rem with 50gn bullets.

[bladeracer]

Hmm. Interesting idea! What's the sound like with Trailboss powder? Comparable to 22wmr?

Starting to think it's either 22LR or reloading. Both have their merits - but I know eventually I would have reloaded to cut down costs...

All of my mates are telling me 22mag, but I'm just not sure I can justify the extra cost of ammo when I will likely have my .223 with me when I'm using the .22, unless of course I'm walking the field.

The sound is up to you, you can load down to subsonic if you prefer.
As everybody has said, you should have a .22LR anyway - it's the cheapest and quietest way to put in _lots_ of trigger time.
Do you mates have WMR's themselves?
I owned one many years ago. It does hit harder than .22LR, especially at twice the range. But accuracy is not generally great. I haven't personally seen a WMR that consistently maintained 2MoA or better, although I know they do exist. I was reloading .222Rem when I had the WMR and the WMR never came close to the .222's accuracy, regardless of velocity - and the .222 was heaps cheaper to shoot.
Have two magazines, one with a full-power load for bigger game or longer ranges. And a second with lighter loads for close ranges, smaller game and coup de gras shots. Zero with the long-range stuff, and shoot the short-range stuff to learn your holdovers.
When I go out with the .204 I take 24gn bullets at 4400fps for long ranges, and 32gn trailboss loads at 2400fps for everything else.

A neighbour of mine has a WMR and last week told me he's looking for a .22LR. He lives down in the valley and even the WMR echoes for a very long way down there.

[Cooper]

I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!

You must have had a crap 22wmr to shoot or it had terrible ammo. I was shooting one the other week at 100yd. Not much good with one type of ammo but with the other it was shooting MOA easily.

I'll admit I haven't given the 22wmr much of chance. It has less than 100 shots down the barrel. But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother. The 22wmr barrel can stay in the safe. Only tried Winchester power point and CCi mini Mags. Maybe one day I'll try something else

[Oldbloke]

Scratch that i reckon you should get a Savage model 24, .22 lr 20ga combo gun, a good quality little gun that will last a lifetime.
The 22 fills the need and the 20ga is a great little fox / bunny killer and a good way to get the kids into shotguning!

Yeah, they are great u/o. (I want one) Or a 22 lr. Don't bother with a 22mag.

[Bent Arrow]

Many years ago I had a 22mag, I loved it, it was my go to gun for bunnies. With today's price of ammo would I buy one. NO. Get a 22lr and go shoot some bunnies.

[Bosbefok]

You need one of these...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G9M3de5mISY

[Gwion]

I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!

You must have had a crap 22wmr to shoot or it had terrible ammo. I was shooting one the other week at 100yd. Not much good with one type of ammo but with the other it was shooting MOA easily.

I'll admit I haven't given the 22wmr much of chance. It has less than 100 shots down the barrel. But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother. The 22wmr barrel can stay in the safe. Only tried Winchester power point and CCi mini Mags. Maybe one day I'll try something else

Yep. This is exactly why i went past the 17hmr and 22wmr and got the 223rem. Can reload cheaper or as cheap as both rounds and with the option of reduced loads you can do everything either of those chamberings can do and still load a full charge for the 223rem performance.

Can't go past having a 22lr, though. With enough practice they are very effective out to 70m on small game and ferals like bunnies and foxes. Past that range i think it is a very marginal prospect.

[Oldbloke]

Scratch that i reckon you should get a Savage model 24, .22 lr 20ga combo gun, a good quality little gun that will last a lifetime.
The 22 fills the need and the 20ga is a great little fox / bunny killer and a good way to get the kids into shotguning!

I agree. And forget the 22 mag. You can down load the 223 to a hornet or 22mag if you want once you have the reloading gear. Or just get a 22lr.

PS Always wanted one of those savage o/u

[FlyingStick]

Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?

[bladeracer]

Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?

Even better, they do the American Target in WMR and HMR.
You're welcome to check my American .22LR's out, but they're in aluminium chassis. I don't like timber firearms.

As for barrel swaps I just don't see the point. Just buy two rifles and forget about having to swap things around.

[Cooper]

Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?

I have both a cz455 and cz452. I bought the cz452 new around 1999. Honestly out of the box I reckon the cz455 was a touch better. My cz452 now has a Boyds thumbhole stock and I've played with the trigger. You'd still be able to find a CZ452.

Don't skimp to much on a 22lr. Buy something decent put a scope on it better than $100 Chinese special. You won't regret it.

[Bosbefok]

Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?

For what it's worth my cz 455 has acceptable hunting accuracy. I have 3 barrels, the 22lr and hmr are both accurate. I tried to upload a group from the hmr at 50 yards when I first got it.

[Oldbloke]

"But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother."

Crikey, that's 60 cents a shot for 22 mag. You can buy 223 ammo for that. Reload for a lot less if you shop around.