Next rifle

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Re: Next rifle

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jun 2017, 1:21 pm

FlyingStick wrote:Hmm. Interesting idea! What's the sound like with Trailboss powder? Comparable to 22wmr?

Starting to think it's either 22LR or reloading. Both have their merits - but I know eventually I would have reloaded to cut down costs...

All of my mates are telling me 22mag, but I'm just not sure I can justify the extra cost of ammo when I will likely have my .223 with me when I'm using the .22, unless of course I'm walking the field.



The sound is up to you, you can load down to subsonic if you prefer.
As everybody has said, you should have a .22LR anyway - it's the cheapest and quietest way to put in _lots_ of trigger time.
Do you mates have WMR's themselves?
I owned one many years ago. It does hit harder than .22LR, especially at twice the range. But accuracy is not generally great. I haven't personally seen a WMR that consistently maintained 2MoA or better, although I know they do exist. I was reloading .222Rem when I had the WMR and the WMR never came close to the .222's accuracy, regardless of velocity - and the .222 was heaps cheaper to shoot.
Have two magazines, one with a full-power load for bigger game or longer ranges. And a second with lighter loads for close ranges, smaller game and coup de gras shots. Zero with the long-range stuff, and shoot the short-range stuff to learn your holdovers.
When I go out with the .204 I take 24gn bullets at 4400fps for long ranges, and 32gn trailboss loads at 2400fps for everything else.

A neighbour of mine has a WMR and last week told me he's looking for a .22LR. He lives down in the valley and even the WMR echoes for a very long way down there.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Cooper » 23 Jun 2017, 2:00 pm

Gwion wrote:
Cooper wrote:I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!


You must have had a crap 22wmr to shoot or it had terrible ammo. I was shooting one the other week at 100yd. Not much good with one type of ammo but with the other it was shooting MOA easily.



I'll admit I haven't given the 22wmr much of chance. It has less than 100 shots down the barrel. But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother. The 22wmr barrel can stay in the safe. Only tried Winchester power point and CCi mini Mags. Maybe one day I'll try something else
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jun 2017, 2:18 pm

bentaz wrote:Scratch that i reckon you should get a Savage model 24, .22 lr 20ga combo gun, a good quality little gun that will last a lifetime.
The 22 fills the need and the 20ga is a great little fox / bunny killer and a good way to get the kids into shotguning!


Yeah, they are great u/o. (I want one) Or a 22 lr. Don't bother with a 22mag.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bent Arrow » 23 Jun 2017, 3:00 pm

Many years ago I had a 22mag, I loved it, it was my go to gun for bunnies. With today's price of ammo would I buy one. NO. Get a 22lr and go shoot some bunnies.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bosbefok » 23 Jun 2017, 3:34 pm

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Re: Next rifle

Post by Gwion » 23 Jun 2017, 4:13 pm

Cooper wrote:
Gwion wrote:
Cooper wrote:I reckon everybody needs a 22lr. I have a cz455 with three barrels 17hmr/22mag and 22lr. I mainly wanted the 17hmr as I didn't think I would get into reloading. I really don't have much time for the 22wmr. The best it shots at 50 metres is around an inch usually an inch and half to 2 inches. The ammo is too expensive for what it is. Cheapest is and $17per 50 to around $30 per 50.
People talk about the 22wmr having more knock down power and energy than the 17hmr. But the 17hmr s**ts all over it the accuracy department in my opinion.

The 17hmr is a great rabbit gun. Very flat shooting out to around 100metres plus. And can handle a fox and feral cat.

I would probably still reconmend buying a 22lr for the rabbits and some reloading gear. Reloading won't really save you any money. You'll just shot more. Not that there is a problem with that!


You must have had a crap 22wmr to shoot or it had terrible ammo. I was shooting one the other week at 100yd. Not much good with one type of ammo but with the other it was shooting MOA easily.



I'll admit I haven't given the 22wmr much of chance. It has less than 100 shots down the barrel. But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother. The 22wmr barrel can stay in the safe. Only tried Winchester power point and CCi mini Mags. Maybe one day I'll try something else


Yep. This is exactly why i went past the 17hmr and 22wmr and got the 223rem. Can reload cheaper or as cheap as both rounds and with the option of reduced loads you can do everything either of those chamberings can do and still load a full charge for the 223rem performance.

Can't go past having a 22lr, though. With enough practice they are very effective out to 70m on small game and ferals like bunnies and foxes. Past that range i think it is a very marginal prospect.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jun 2017, 6:04 pm

bentaz wrote:Scratch that i reckon you should get a Savage model 24, .22 lr 20ga combo gun, a good quality little gun that will last a lifetime.
The 22 fills the need and the 20ga is a great little fox / bunny killer and a good way to get the kids into shotguning!


I agree. And forget the 22 mag. You can down load the 223 to a hornet or 22mag if you want once you have the reloading gear. Or just get a 22lr.

PS Always wanted one of those savage o/u
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 23 Jun 2017, 6:37 pm

Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?
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Re: Next rifle

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jun 2017, 6:44 pm

FlyingStick wrote:Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?


Even better, they do the American Target in WMR and HMR.
You're welcome to check my American .22LR's out, but they're in aluminium chassis. I don't like timber firearms.

As for barrel swaps I just don't see the point. Just buy two rifles and forget about having to swap things around.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Cooper » 23 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

FlyingStick wrote:Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?


I have both a cz455 and cz452. I bought the cz452 new around 1999. Honestly out of the box I reckon the cz455 was a touch better. My cz452 now has a Boyds thumbhole stock and I've played with the trigger. You'd still be able to find a CZ452.

Don't skimp to much on a 22lr. Buy something decent put a scope on it better than $100 Chinese special. You won't regret it.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bosbefok » 23 Jun 2017, 7:46 pm

FlyingStick wrote:Just noticed Ruger does the American in timber - from what I can tell these review well, thoughts?

I'm also interested in CZ but want to keep away from the 455, I keep finding negative reviews given the swap out barrels. Are there stil new 452s around at dealers?


For what it's worth my cz 455 has acceptable hunting accuracy. I have 3 barrels, the 22lr and hmr are both accurate. I tried to upload a group from the hmr at 50 yards when I first got it.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jun 2017, 8:35 pm

"But at $30 per 50 trying to work out what ammo it likes? Don't think I will bother."

Crikey, that's 60 cents a shot for 22 mag. You can buy 223 ammo for that. Reload for a lot less if you shop around.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 26 Jun 2017, 2:10 pm

Ok. Went to my local shop today and had a look at the CZ455 and 452. What beautiful guns! I think I've settled on CZ - exactly what I want in my safe to hand down to the little ones.

Question is now on 455 or 452. Although I'm set on having the 22LR, I'm starting to wonder if having the multiple barrels would be the right way to go. I've been thinking:
- Having the 22LR barrel for whenever we go out having a fun shoot plinking with dirt cheap 22LR ammo
- Having the 22MAG/17HMR barrel for when I go out hunting where I will use minimal rounds.

It's a $200 premium for the CZ455. Thoughts?
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bosbefok » 26 Jun 2017, 3:08 pm

I got mine off used guns. $800 for rifle and all 3 Barrels. In excellent condition. I keep the 22LR barrel on but having all 3 barrels just opens up a few more options. I had to put a horse down on small acreage the other day so the 22mag barrel was on in under 5 minutes... Foxes, feral cats and longer range rabbits on the cards? 17HMR barrel goes on. I like it anyways.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Cooper » 26 Jun 2017, 6:43 pm

FlyingStick wrote:Ok. Went to my local shop today and had a look at the CZ455 and 452. What beautiful guns! I think I've settled on CZ - exactly what I want in my safe to hand down to the little ones.

Question is now on 455 or 452. Although I'm set on having the 22LR, I'm starting to wonder if having the multiple barrels would be the right way to go. I've been thinking:
- Having the 22LR barrel for whenever we go out having a fun shoot plinking with dirt cheap 22LR ammo
- Having the 22MAG/17HMR barrel for when I go out hunting where I will use minimal rounds.

It's a $200 premium for the CZ455. Thoughts?



If you buy the Cz455. I would recommend getting a good Torgue wrench. Swapping barrels while quite easy does mean you have to re sight in. I do the barrel screw at 28 inch/lbs and actions screws around 20 inch/lbs. at the moment I am running 24inch/lbs on the front action screw and 20 on the rear.

A change barrel rifle isn't for everybody. But for $200 you have the option of turning it into a 17hmr or 22mag. Sounds like a no brainer to me.
I reckon you want a bit more scope on the 17hmr than you would just a normal .22. A 3x9 probably been minimum. I have a 3x12 on mine

Your probably shopping at Claytons? If you in Vic.
The 17hmr ammo isn't the cheap. The Hornady stuff is probably the best but is usually $24-30 per 50. Or you can use the Winchester at around $20 per box. But which the Winchester I get 5 or 6 neck splits per 50. Doesn't seem to effect accuracy much. But I haven't had a Hornady case split yet.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bosbefok » 27 Jun 2017, 1:19 pm

+1 on the split necks on winchester stuff. But its the cheapest with acceptable accuracy. I just picked up 500 rounds.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 28 Jun 2017, 8:29 pm

What about scopes guys? I swear the world of firearms is tough. In archery - it was simple, there was a handful of sights available and there was a clear 1 or 2 that were the pick of the bunch.

With firearms - there is 100 options!!!

I'm looking for something that isn't too crazy on the zoom given it's max range will be of the 22wmr and 17hmr. I will be using this for spotlighting, most definitely. I was originally thinking Vortex Crossfore or Bushnell AR, now I'm thinking Leupold VX1. Is 50mm obj overkill?
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bent Arrow » 28 Jun 2017, 8:42 pm

FlyingStick wrote:What about scopes guys? I swear the world of firearms is tough. In archery - it was simple, there was a handful of sights available and there was a clear 1 or 2 that were the pick of the bunch......


Really? Your not shopping in the right places. There's more choices than you could poke a pointy stick at, cheesey archery pun fully intended...
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Gwion » 28 Jun 2017, 8:43 pm

50mm objective is not overkill if you are spotlighting but I get by ok with 40mm jobbies.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Oldbloke » 28 Jun 2017, 8:45 pm

Gwion wrote:50mm objective is not overkill if you are spotlighting but I get by ok with 40mm jobbies.


Same here. Seems to be a big price jump from 40 to 50mm.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bent Arrow » 28 Jun 2017, 8:45 pm

Have you looked at the Bushnell rimfire scope? I haven't got one but I had a play with one at the range the other day. Looked ok

https://aussiehunter.org/bushnell-rimfi ... x40-scope/
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Cooper » 28 Jun 2017, 8:49 pm

I put a vx1 3x9 X 40 on my multi barrel CZ455 to start. Wished I had went 4x12. It now has a Bushnell Rimfire 3x12 which has similar glass to Bushnell AR scopes. The Bushnell rimfire is $215.

I have two Bushnell AR223 scopes and a Vortex Crossfire 2 on another rifle. They are both pretty good for lower end scopes. You'll probably need high mounts on the CZ for the AR style scopes
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 28 Jun 2017, 8:58 pm

Bent Arrow wrote:
FlyingStick wrote:What about scopes guys? I swear the world of firearms is tough. In archery - it was simple, there was a handful of sights available and there was a clear 1 or 2 that were the pick of the bunch......


Really? Your not shopping in the right places. There's more choices than you could poke a pointy stick at, cheesey archery pun fully intended...


Hunting maybe. Come to think of it I'm talking target. There aren't that many top options in target...
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Re: Next rifle

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jun 2017, 1:06 am

FlyingStick wrote:What about scopes guys? I swear the world of firearms is tough. In archery - it was simple, there was a handful of sights available and there was a clear 1 or 2 that were the pick of the bunch.

With firearms - there is 100 options!!!

I'm looking for something that isn't too crazy on the zoom given it's max range will be of the 22wmr and 17hmr. I will be using this for spotlighting, most definitely. I was originally thinking Vortex Crossfore or Bushnell AR, now I'm thinking Leupold VX1. Is 50mm obj overkill?


In the old days the choice was 4x32 or 4x40, that was about it :-)

For dedicated night work I probably wouldn't recommend the Bushnell AR series. You need very high-quality glass for night - in my opinion anyway. But if it's a day rifle that you might see some night use then the AR should be fine.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by in2anity » 29 Jun 2017, 11:04 am

Just be careful about the diminishing return on investment for high objective lenses- a 50mm objective does not let much more (noticeable) light through than a 40mm, so you've got to ask yourself is it really worth the (potentially) huge jump in cost...

EDIT: meant to say not
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 29 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

in2anity wrote:Just be careful about the diminishing return on investment for high objective lenses- a 50mm objective does let much more light through than a 40mm, so you've got to ask yourself is it really worth the (potentially) huge jump in cost...


Thanks mate.

I think I'm either going the VX1 3-9x50 or the VX2 3-9x40. Tending towards better glass over bigger obj, as well as trying to keep it compact/light.

Going to end up with a better scope on this then my 223 (Vortex Diamondback) lol! I like the Vortex's, but I've looked through a Leupold and my Vortex side by side and felt that Leupold was a better scope (ever so slightly, especially at a distance). I also find a the DB a PITA for eye relief.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by Bosbefok » 29 Jun 2017, 11:57 am

For the guys using CZ 455's. I do have an issue with the bolt clearing the "eyepiece bell" on the vx1 4-12x40. There is a small mark on the scope as a result. I think I have medium rings. I was hoping to keep the scope as close to the barrel as I can. Anybody else have this issue and what have you done?
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Re: Next rifle

Post by in2anity » 29 Jun 2017, 12:32 pm

FlyingStick wrote:
in2anity wrote:Just be careful about the diminishing return on investment for high objective lenses- a 50mm objective does not let much more light through than a 40mm, so you've got to ask yourself is it really worth the (potentially) huge jump in cost...


Thanks mate.

I think I'm either going the VX1 3-9x50 or the VX2 3-9x40. Tending towards better glass over bigger obj, as well as trying to keep it compact/light.

Going to end up with a better scope on this then my 223 (Vortex Diamondback) lol! I like the Vortex's, but I've looked through a Leupold and my Vortex side by side and felt that Leupold was a better scope (ever so slightly, especially at a distance). I also find a the DB a PITA for eye relief.


I think you got what I was saying but I missed the word not in my statement; what i was trying to say was don't be thinking that 50mm is going to let 25% more light than a 40mm; that's not how it works, it's a lot less than that, yet a 50mm is often quite a bit more pricey (and bulky) than a 40mm. IMO The VX2 3-9x40 is a very good "all-rounder" scope.
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Re: Next rifle

Post by FlyingStick » 29 Jun 2017, 1:17 pm

in2anity wrote:
FlyingStick wrote:
in2anity wrote:Just be careful about the diminishing return on investment for high objective lenses- a 50mm objective does not let much more light through than a 40mm, so you've got to ask yourself is it really worth the (potentially) huge jump in cost...


Thanks mate.

I think I'm either going the VX1 3-9x50 or the VX2 3-9x40. Tending towards better glass over bigger obj, as well as trying to keep it compact/light.

Going to end up with a better scope on this then my 223 (Vortex Diamondback) lol! I like the Vortex's, but I've looked through a Leupold and my Vortex side by side and felt that Leupold was a better scope (ever so slightly, especially at a distance). I also find a the DB a PITA for eye relief.


I think you got what I was saying but I missed the word not in my statement; what i was trying to say was don't be thinking that 50mm is going to let 25% more light than a 40mm; that's not how it works, it's a lot less than that, yet a 50mm is often quite a bit more pricey (and bulky) than a 40mm. IMO The VX2 3-9x40 is a very good "all-rounder" scope.


Yep - I connected the dots :drinks:

Regarding with the bolt handle clearance issue above - is this an issue with the 3-9 also (I'm assuming the eye piece is smaller on the 3-9???)
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Re: Next rifle

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jun 2017, 1:27 pm

Bosbefok wrote:For the guys using CZ 455's. I do have an issue with the bolt clearing the "eyepiece bell" on the vx1 4-12x40. There is a small mark on the scope as a result. I think I have medium rings. I was hoping to keep the scope as close to the barrel as I can. Anybody else have this issue and what have you done?


You could use 30mm rings with 25mm inserts. That'll raise the scope 2.5mm which is probably all you need.
Or you could try shimming the left side of the mounts to pull both rings slightly off centre.
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