Quality left handed rifles

[JimmyS]

I'll be honest, I have never shouldered a Bavarian stock, so I'm speaking out of ignorance.
If I see a man wielding a fishing rod and a Bavarian stocked rifle down at lil river I'll be sure to give them a yell

[Gwion]

[Tiger650]

I was in the service for a period, so I have always referred to them as "Weapons"

I didn't mean anything by it, nor do I feel like it is a derogatory term for a Rifle, or any other firearm for that matter.
Far as I'm concerned, only anti gunners and the like, use it in a derogatory way, and I do not want to conform to emotional based decisions on what a word means.

Regardless of my opinions, I will do my best to maintain correct use of terminology.

Cheers.

Cheers right back Jimmy

I was not trying to censor or criticize but just making a point about "newspeak" and the categorization of of our firearms as "weapons" by the left.

Most folks in general society have never been in The Services and our opponents almost certainly not, it is unfortunate that the masses are demonstrably pretty f%c3ing stupid and if we use the antis favoured terminology ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhngxFmXEE

Sad for sure and I reckon society really is in rapid decline, the last chapter of Albert Speer's book describes what we are witnessing.

The above book is quiet probably unavailable, having been burned in secret and online deleted.

Excuse the rant and again I did not mean to teach you how to speak.

[Tiger650]

My Mother was beaten by Nuns until she learned write with her right hand, three months or so in a Convent school would surely cure your affliction !
Then you could shoot an ordinary rifle like the rest of the flock.

[bigfellascott]

scott. It's not too hard I just CBF with your argumentative attitude that runs anything down that you see as unworthy.

Yes that's a position often taken by those who are losing an argument. And I wasn't running anything down at all I was simply pointing out that I CAN'T SEE WHERE THE $1000 DIFFERENCE is in them and I simply asked you to clarify your statement that the Sako is so much better, I didn't realise it would be that hard for you to answer, sorry about that.

If I were the OP I'd buy the Tikkler or CZ LH version and spend the difference of around $1000 or there about's on the Sako price on glass and ammo - you honestly won't notice whether you are shooting the Tikkler or Sako or CZ in the end, they all lob bullets down range good enough to hunt with and the problem with fancy wood is you spend most of your time worrying about scratching it instead of getting out and hunting with it like you would with something with less expensive wood on it (I just bought a plastic stock for the Tikkler as I'm sick of worrying about scratching that beautiful stock) as much as I hate plastic it's the better of two evils when it comes to that particular situation for me anyway

[Gwion]

The tikka v Sako argument has been done to death and I'm not going into it. Even if the barrels are from the same machine does not mean the rifles are the same. Tikka are made by Sako as a cheaper line of rifle for the flooded American market so saying there is no quality difference is simply absurd. One is made to be their top of the line brand and the other is their entry level brand.
Will they both shoot straight? Yes.
Does that mean both are the same in a discussion raised by a question on quality rifles? No
If you want to know the details of how they differ, look it up yourself, but there is a significant difference. Just because you don't see the difference as with the cost does not mean that others don't.

I CBF with your attitude not because I was losing an argument but because I CBF arguing with you.

[Oldbloke]

scott. It's not too hard I just CBF with your argumentative attitude that runs anything down that you see as unworthy.

Scott asked a simple question asking for specifics. I didn't see it as argumentive.

Like I said earlier quality can at times be very subjective. EG. I have a $500 Marlin 223. Does. .8moa..so foxes are dead out to 250 yards and weighs stuffall, the main reason I got it. For me that was quality. I wouldn't consider a sako. Too costly to scratch and fire a dozen times a year. Fox is still dead, .8 or. 2moa.
A bit like the Ford / Holden argument. It's in the mind of the beholder.

So COOL OFF.

[Gwion]

A simple question loaded with derogatory language. Just CBF.

That is all.

[JimmyS]

Things got really heated here, maybe I won't ask anymore questions?

In all seriousness, a bit of hot debate isn't all that bad, keeps the blood flowing.
Just gotta make sure we're all holding hands at the end of it

[Oldbloke]

Keep asking Jimmy and have some chips and beer.

[in2anity]

popcorn.jpg (20.92 KiB) Viewed 5393 times

Obligatory meme.

[Oldbloke]

Beer and chips.png (180.09 KiB) Viewed 5381 times

[Gwion]

Took me a while to find it because i lost the link in a laptop melt down. See link for a good pictorial of the differences between Tikka T3, Sako A7 & Sako 85:
http://www.biggamehunt.net/reviews/sako-a7-review

It's up to the individual to decide if the added quality of the Sako 85series is worth the extra cash but the difference in quality is obvious in fit, finish, machining and design. Tikka is produced as a competitively priced/entry level product whereas the 85 is designed and built from the ground up as a quality crafted product. The Tikka is cheaper because it is designed and manufactured to be cheaper. End of story.

Yes, they will both shoot a bullet at a target accurately and efficiently but claiming that this alone makes them the same level of quality is like saying that VW & Porche are the same quality because they are both made by the same company and they both get you from A to B.

The claim is patently absurd.

I have handled and fired both model of rifles and i can immediately see and feel the difference in quality. Just like i have fishing reels and rods that i paid $70 for, $140 for, $250 for and $650 for; all basically the same type of reel or rod in a similar size. Can you guess which one I prefer to fish with due to the feel and simple pleasure of using quality gear? Can you guess which reel is still as tight and as smooth to use as the day i bought it, 10 years later? Can you guess which ones are getting sloppy after the same period despite less than 1/2 the use? Can you guess which one wore out after 2 seasons of heavy use? Can you guess which rods balance best, cast best and give most finesse and sensitivity in use while retrieving lures, floating baits or playing a fish?

If i had the budget (which i don't), i would; without question or a second's hesitation; buy the Sako over the Tikka. Not everyone places quality of workmanship and design highly on their list of priorities and that is their prerogative but to say one is as good as the other because it performs essentially the same function is a non-argument.

[bigfellascott]

So tell us which version of each you handled for comparison purposes and was it just at the range or in hunting situations?

[Gwion]

Tikka T3 in 223 hunter with synth stock and Sako 85 hunter with synth stock in 6.5x55. Both Hust a few shots at target. Each belonged to different people. Having handled the 85 hunter with walnut stock instore, that would be my choice. I fact that is exactly what I plan to buy when I have enough cash for a dedicated left hand hunting rifle.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with a Tikka but, like a Howa, it is not of the same quality as the Sako 85 series. I'd buy another Howa over a Tikka because in the bang for buck they are better value but I need a lefty and when it comes to a quality thing, I'll save for a Sako.

[Member-Deleted]

Well here we go ''-- My son and i have both sako and tikka the son has a tikka 223 shoots up its own butt,I have a model 85 22-250 sako lots dearer with laminated stock after 3mths of shooting lamination clear coating started lifting, I also have 25-06 sako roughteck range with plastic stock good rifle
Now all 3 rifles shoot within .3moa @ 100yds the tikka is not finished as well as the sako's in the bolt area an a few not to worry about places
NOW which rifle would i buy again ,well either simply because i think that the sako elite quallity brand is slipping to the tikka quallity as a normal every day rifle i have always been a sako person but now unless you pay the dollars and build then most rifles going into the future will be a much of a muchness as far as quality goes
sako is still a good rifle but with the drop in quality will people still buy them at the higher prices, i think that will depend on the person thats buying

I paid $2300 for 22-250 Model 85
$2000----- 25-06 Roughteck
Son paid $1375 for 223 tikka

Is the extra money worth spending for sako possibly for now but now that Beretta has taken over sako i think down the line to buy sako you will only be
buying a name and this will be a sad day for sako buyers

Cheers

[bigfellascott]

Tikka T3 in 223 hunter with synth stock and Sako 85 hunter with synth stock in 6.5x55. Both Hust a few shots at target. Each belonged to different people. Having handled the 85 hunter with walnut stock instore, that would be my choice. I fact that is exactly what I plan to buy when I have enough cash for a dedicated left hand hunting rifle.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with a Tikka but, like a Howa, it is not of the same quality as the Sako 85 series. I'd buy another Howa over a Tikka because in the bang for buck they are better value but I need a lefty and when it comes to a quality thing, I'll save for a Sako.

The one thing I like about the 85 series is their mag, all BDM's should be like that and I agree I'd definitely buy another Howa over a Tikka but if I wanted another lite rifle I'd have to go a Tikka or other offering as Howa's don't really offer a light version (they sorta do but still not as light).

The thing I really don't like about Sakos and I'm not alone on this is their habit in some cals to dent case mouths as they are ejected, it's a well known problem that hasn't been addressed as far as I'm aware, that prob can be a PITA for those who reload as you could imagine. My mates a mad Sako fan owns lots of them and he had 2 within mths of each other that had stuffed barrels from the factory (rifling looked like it was created using a chisel, not to say others don't have manufacturing issues as they all do, that's just part of any manufacturing process as we know.

The other thing I don't like about the Tikkas is their plastic stocks, they have addressed a few of the issues with the T3x version to some degree which is good to see but still not a great plastic stock by any stretch. I think the A7 has it's fair share of issues too but can't recall what they were.

[bigfellascott]

Well here we go ''-- My son and i have both sako and tikka the son has a tikka 223 shoots up its own butt,I have a model 85 22-250 sako lots dearer with laminated stock after 3mths of shooting lamination clear coating started lifting, I also have 25-06 sako roughteck range with plastic stock good rifle
Now all 3 rifles shoot within .3moa @ 100yds the tikka is not finished as well as the sako's in the bolt area an a few not to worry about places
NOW which rifle would i buy again ,well either simply because i think that the sako elite quallity brand is slipping to the tikka quallity as a normal every day rifle i have always been a sako person but now unless you pay the dollars and build then most rifles going into the future will be a much of a muchness as far as quality goes
sako is still a good rifle but with the drop in quality will people still buy them at the higher prices, i think that will depend on the person thats buying

I paid $2300 for 22-250 Model 85
$2000----- 25-06 Roughteck
Son paid $1375 for 223 tikka

Is the extra money worth spending for sako possibly for now but now that Beretta has taken over sako i think down the line to buy sako you will only be
buying a name and this will be a sad day for sako buyers

Cheers

So can you see the value in spending $1k more for the sako over the tikka now that you own both?

[Member-Deleted]

Yeah your dead right bigfella the 25-06 roughteck is a A7 of sorts with a 26'' barrel and i had to bed the barrel
With the plastic stock i couldn't stop the barrel from moving up to 2mm even if it was locked down tight
Problem was i couldn't get a gunsmith to glass bed it because they said the epoxy wouldn't take to the plastic so i done it myself 2yr old and still going
Now this was a fault in the M85 22-250 as well so i glass bedded it , this seems to be one of the bad traits sako is develloping now because the old sako's never
had that problem
Its caused by the free movement on the steel base plate and over sized hole on the holding down screws at the front and the only way to remedy it would be to bush the holes or bed the barrel

I don't know about you mate but when i buy a rifle for that sort of money i don't want to spend more money to get it to shoot other wise i would build one much like
people are starting to do

Cheers

[Member-Deleted]

Sorry forgot your question about spending $1000 the anwser is ''NO''
give beretta 12mths and there will be no difference between either only price because there is very little now as far as shooting goes and not much in looks
either
The way i see it the manufacturing line for sako quality is 100mtrs long and for tikka its 99mtrs so only slightly less finish

Cheers

[bigfellascott]

Yeah your dead right bigfella the 25-06 roughteck is a A7 of sorts with a 26'' barrel and i had to bed the barrel
With the plastic stock i couldn't stop the barrel from moving up to 2mm even if it was locked down tight
Problem was i couldn't get a gunsmith to glass bed it because they said the epoxy wouldn't take to the plastic so i done it myself 2yr old and still going
Now this was a fault in the M85 22-250 as well so i glass bedded it , this seems to be one of the bad traits sako is develloping now because the old sako's never
had that problem
Its caused by the free movement on the steel base plate and over sized hole on the holding down screws at the front and the only way to remedy it would be to bush the holes or bed the barrel

I don't know about you mate but when i buy a rifle for that sort of money i don't want to spend more money to get it to shoot other wise i would build one much like
people are starting to do

Cheers

I'm hearing ya mate - you spend too $$ you expect it too perform better than the cheaper stuff which you expect will need some tinkering to make it better, annoying when you pay top $$ and the have too spend more to sort it out so it shoots right.

[bigfellascott]

Sorry forgot your question about spending $1000 the anwser is ''NO''
give beretta 12mths and there will be no difference between either only price because there is very little now as far as shooting goes and not much in looks
either
The way i see it the manufacturing line for sako quality is 100mtrs long and for tikka its 99mtrs so only slightly less finish

Cheers

Cheers mate I feel the same way - there really isn't a great diff between em from my experience in owning both brands - not enough for me to be able too justify the extra costs anyway.

[Oldbloke]

Regarding quality and manufacturing you always pay a lot for a bit extra. That's just how it is, firearms, cars, whatever.
With modern manufacturing even the majority of the cheap firearms are heaps better than great firearms made 25 years ago.

[bigfellascott]

Regarding quality and manufacturing you always pay a lot for a bit extra. That's just how it is, firearms, cars, whatever.
With modern manufacturing even the majority of the cheap firearms are heaps better than great firearms made 25 years ago.

Very true things have changed greatly over the years where you had to pay through the nose for a reliability/performance but these days you can get great results for a lot less, it may not be as refined as the expensive stuff but performs just as well for a fraction of the cost.

[Oldbloke]

Regarding quality and manufacturing you always pay a lot for a bit extra. That's just how it is, firearms, cars, whatever.
With modern manufacturing even the majority of the cheap firearms are heaps better than great firearms made 25 years ago.

Very true things have changed greatly over the years where you had to pay through the nose for a reliability/performance but these days you can get great results for a lot less, it may not be as refined as the expensive stuff but performs just as well for a fraction of the cost.

Precisely.

[Member-Deleted]

Exactly ,for the extra you pay for the prettiness of it, is nothing for the shooting ability of it so the old ''KISS TRICK''
''Keep it simple stupid'' is the way to go
If your keen on extra good quality only one way to go ''BUILD'' then you've got what you want and if you work your head you'll
do it for much the same or just a little more than you would pay for a good quality rifle with the chance you may not like it as much as you thought

Cheers

[bigfellascott]

Exactly ,for the extra you pay for the prettiness of it, is nothing for the shooting ability of it so the old ''KISS TRICK''
''Keep it simple stupid'' is the way to go
If your keen on extra good quality only one way to go ''BUILD'' then you've got what you want and if you work your head you'll
do it for much the same or just a little more than you would pay for a good quality rifle with the chance you may not like it as much as you thought

Cheers

It's funny you mention the custom route, mate went the custom job and loves it (rem action) cost him around $3k or there abouts and shoots amazingly, way better than any factory offering does as a rule. He loves those who shell out $6K plus for their TRG's only to find they don't shoot anywhere near as well as his cheaper offering.

[duncan61]

3K should get you an accurate as custom rifle

[Member-Deleted]

Yep the big TRG's a few blokes i know have bought them and 2 out of the 3 have been sold again just shows how good they are
Also with that sort of money you could build yourself 2 good rifles and scope them well
Thats the way i'd go

Cheers

[bigfellascott]

Yep the big TRG's a few blokes i know have bought them and 2 out of the 3 have been sold again just shows how good they are
Also with that sort of money you could build yourself 2 good rifles and scope them well
Thats the way i'd go

Cheers

Yeah everyone thinks cos you buy an expensive rifle it will turn you into a great shooter - so often it's not the case sadly. Redback engineering does great work from my understanding he would probably be my choice if I went custom.