Lets be honest

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Re: Lets be honest

Post by GLS_1956 » 10 Sep 2017, 12:40 am

aradoar234: Here in the USA we do not have as many "introduced" game species. Our biggest problem animal is the feral hog, which was not brought here as a food animal not a game animal. Of the introduced game animals the most widely spread is probably the pheasant, other "exotic" animals are the Barbary sheep and the Sitka deer, but neither of these are well spread. So hunting to control non-native fauna is not really done that much. Again with the exclusion of feral hogs which have become an economical/ecological mill-stone around the neck.

Every state in the USA has some form of Wildlife Department, those departments are charged with making sure that all wildlife in their respective states are properly managed, to insure the continuation of those animals for generations to come. this is accomplished, of course, by setting seasons and bag limits.

Now for the question of "The Morality/Need of hunting": My father was born, in 1925, on and grew up on a farm, in Kansas. On the farm they grew or raised food not only for sell, but for personal use. Dad grew up hunting and fishing even more so than his father or siblings. Back in the depression era any animal take for "sport" went into the pot, was for fur, or to protect farm animals or crops. But dad did enjoy hunting, especially birds.

Dad introduced myself and my two older brothers to hunting as soon as we were old enough. The reasoning for hunting was multifold; First was for us to be able to spend time with our father. Secondly it was to instill in us a respect for nature, in that we had to, or got to, interact with nature on a personal level in that we gained sustenance from nature and were not just a spectator. Thirdly and most importantly. we were taught that for us to live, something had to die. We humans have to take in food and food has to either be grown harvested or killed and prepared. And that, killing, cleaning and eating the animal is not something you will ever experience in a trip to the supermarket or butcherer.
I've been asked: "How many guns do you need to have?" My answer remains the same: "One more."
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by vmaxaust » 10 Sep 2017, 6:27 am

I'm not passing judgement on those who choose to hunt, as I've been a subsistence hunter myself in times past, I'd just like to hear from others who honestly want to give their opinion on why they hunt,,,,,,,,

No hunting for me. I believe in subsistence hunting for those who actually use the meat but I just go to the butcher.
Ferals and pests I would have no problem in hunting.

Those hunting to take a trophy photo only make me sick.

Sam
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Sep 2017, 6:43 am

vmaxaust wrote:I'm not passing judgement on those who choose to hunt, as I've been a subsistence hunter myself in times past, I'd just like to hear from others who honestly want to give their opinion on why they hunt,,,,,,,,

No hunting for me. I believe in subsistence hunting for those who actually use the meat but I just go to the butcher.
Ferals and pests I would have no problem in hunting.

Those hunting to take a trophy photo only make me sick.

Sam


Do you not think they take the meat from their trophies? I would think the majority would - personally I don't have a problem with people wanting trophies for all the hard work they put in (as I say trophies aren't of great interest to me but if I found something with great antlers, tusks or Horns etc I would happily shoot it to say something that was standing next to it that didn't have the aforementioned.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by vmaxaust » 10 Sep 2017, 6:58 am

Do you not think they take the meat from their trophies? I would think the majority would - personally I don't have a problem with people wanting trophies for all the hard work they put in (as I say trophies aren't of great interest to me but if I found something with great antlers, tusks or Horns etc I would happily shoot it to say something that was standing next to it that didn't have the aforementioned.[/quote]


So the trophy photo validates their hard work and effort? Each to their own. I would think validation comes in the form of the satisfaction of being able to put meat on the table for all the hard work. I can totally relate to that.

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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Sep 2017, 8:31 am

vmaxaust wrote:Do you not think they take the meat from their trophies? I would think the majority would - personally I don't have a problem with people wanting trophies for all the hard work they put in (as I say trophies aren't of great interest to me but if I found something with great antlers, tusks or Horns etc I would happily shoot it to say something that was standing next to it that didn't have the aforementioned.



So the trophy photo validates their hard work and effort? Each to their own. I would think validation comes in the form of the satisfaction of being able to put meat on the table for all the hard work. I can totally relate to that.

Sam[/quote]

Yep I think a photo is a great momento of the occasion along with the head and meat it provides, wouldn't surprise me at all if you've eaten beef, or pork or lamb that was once a prize winning animal and had photos taken of it, they too all end up on the plate at the end of their usefulness. :drinks:

I ate part of last years championship winning lambs at our local show, tasted bloody great too by the way. :D
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Conallin24 » 10 Sep 2017, 8:43 am

I am 16 and have been hunting as long as I can remember. I don't really hunt for the meat although bringing back some makes dad happy. I just do it because it's fun. Shooting natives is not really different to ferals. For example duck. I don't see why people don't like trophies, I am going to be keeping my first Pheasant forever.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Sep 2017, 9:37 am

Conallin24 wrote:I am 16 and have been hunting as long as I can remember. I don't really hunt for the meat although bringing back some makes dad happy. I just do it because it's fun. Shooting natives is not really different to ferals. For example duck. I don't see why people don't like trophies, I am going to be keeping my first Pheasant forever.


Nothing wrong with wanting to shoot trophies mate, if that's what you want to do and makes you happy, do it I say. :thumbsup:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Daddybang » 10 Sep 2017, 9:39 am

bigfellascott wrote:
Conallin24 wrote:I am 16 and have been hunting as long as I can remember. I don't really hunt for the meat although bringing back some makes dad happy. I just do it because it's fun. Shooting natives is not really different to ferals. For example duck. I don't see why people don't like trophies, I am going to be keeping my first Pheasant forever.


Nothing wrong with wanting to shoot trophies mate, if that's what you want to do and makes you happy, do it I say. :thumbsup:


Well said :thumbsup:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by wildcard6 » 12 Sep 2017, 3:30 pm

The ethics of hunting are as many and varied as the number of people who hunt. I don't understand the people who hunt trophies, but I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I've spent time in Africa years ago and enjoyed seeing wild animals in their natural habitat - the thought never even occurred to me to kill any of them... But there are people who go to Africa at huge expense to kill animals to have them stuffed [why not take a picture?!]. No, I just don't understand those people. But are they wrong? To me, yes, but obviously not to them... Who is to judge?
I only kill pests, be they introduced or native. Someone says, 'Kill these' and I do it, because I can do it. I like the philosophical answer to your question that says, "I don't hunt to kill, I only kill to have hunted'. It is this hunting instinct that drives the hunter. Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Sep 2017, 3:40 pm

wildcard6 wrote:The ethics of hunting are as many and varied as the number of people who hunt. I don't understand the people who hunt trophies, but I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I've spent time in Africa years ago and enjoyed seeing wild animals in their natural habitat - the thought never even occurred to me to kill any of them... But there are people who go to Africa at huge expense to kill animals to have them stuffed [why not take a picture?!]. No, I just don't understand those people. But are they wrong? To me, yes, but obviously not to them... Who is to judge?
I only kill pests, be they introduced or native. Someone says, 'Kill these' and I do it, because I can do it. I like the philosophical answer to your question that says, "I don't hunt to kill, I only kill to have hunted'. It is this hunting instinct that drives the hunter. Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!


Anyone you can recommend? I get pleasure out of hunting so I do need help :drinks:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Daddybang » 12 Sep 2017, 4:00 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
wildcard6 wrote:The ethics of hunting are as many and varied as the number of people who hunt. I don't understand the people who hunt trophies, but I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I've spent time in Africa years ago and enjoyed seeing wild animals in their natural habitat - the thought never even occurred to me to kill any of them... But there are people who go to Africa at huge expense to kill animals to have them stuffed [why not take a picture?!]. No, I just don't understand those people. But are they wrong? To me, yes, but obviously not to them... Who is to judge?
I only kill pests, be they introduced or native. Someone says, 'Kill these' and I do it, because I can do it. I like the philosophical answer to your question that says, "I don't hunt to kill, I only kill to have hunted'. It is this hunting instinct that drives the hunter. Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!


Anyone you can recommend? I get pleasure out of hunting so I do need help :drinks:



Best book in early I reckon!! :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Sep 2017, 4:41 pm

Daddybang wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
wildcard6 wrote:The ethics of hunting are as many and varied as the number of people who hunt. I don't understand the people who hunt trophies, but I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I've spent time in Africa years ago and enjoyed seeing wild animals in their natural habitat - the thought never even occurred to me to kill any of them... But there are people who go to Africa at huge expense to kill animals to have them stuffed [why not take a picture?!]. No, I just don't understand those people. But are they wrong? To me, yes, but obviously not to them... Who is to judge?
I only kill pests, be they introduced or native. Someone says, 'Kill these' and I do it, because I can do it. I like the philosophical answer to your question that says, "I don't hunt to kill, I only kill to have hunted'. It is this hunting instinct that drives the hunter. Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!


Anyone you can recommend? I get pleasure out of hunting so I do need help :drinks:



Best book in early I reckon!! :drinks:


I'll see ya there will I along with heap of other people who shoot animals and actually enjoy the pursuit/challenges that it entails. :D :drinks:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Sep 2017, 4:46 pm

sungazer wrote:Personally I am on the same lines as wildcard6. the only reason I kill is for pests or for food quite often one in the same. I have a roo cull permit but only kill them now and then and when the dog needs food. I cover three property owners that have problems with roos. killing the off one now and then keeps them away more than having a killing spree. Keeping them under control is the aim as we all want a few roos to show the city visitors.

It is so easy to kill that its not really a challenge Big trophy dear or small doe takes the same skill.

But each to their own. sometimes it is fun tracking them.


A lot of effort and time and money goes into those why hunt deer as a rule, I like hunting for meat and is the reason I hunt deer but if a decent stag happened to present I'd definitely shoot it, would be nice to have a little momento of the trip I guess and you get the meat from it anyway so a bit of a win win in a way. :thumbsup:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Bigjobss » 12 Sep 2017, 5:12 pm

Killing an animal is always killing an animal, regardless of species, status as a pest or perception of its intrinsic worth. If it is sustainable, ethical and legal it is all the same.

You can take the supposed moral high ground and say that you only kill for your chosen reason such as meat (which I only do because I have little time and filling the freeszer is #1), but that doesnt make you any different to the trophy hunter, it doesnt make the animal any less dead.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Daddybang » 12 Sep 2017, 5:23 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Daddybang wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
wildcard6 wrote:The ethics of hunting are as many and varied as the number of people who hunt. I don't understand the people who hunt trophies, but I'm not about to tell them they're wrong. I've spent time in Africa years ago and enjoyed seeing wild animals in their natural habitat - the thought never even occurred to me to kill any of them... But there are people who go to Africa at huge expense to kill animals to have them stuffed [why not take a picture?!]. No, I just don't understand those people. But are they wrong? To me, yes, but obviously not to them... Who is to judge?
I only kill pests, be they introduced or native. Someone says, 'Kill these' and I do it, because I can do it. I like the philosophical answer to your question that says, "I don't hunt to kill, I only kill to have hunted'. It is this hunting instinct that drives the hunter. Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!


Anyone you can recommend? I get pleasure out of hunting so I do need help :drinks:



Best book in early I reckon!! :drinks:


I'll see ya there will I along with heap of other people who shoot animals and actually enjoy the pursuit/challenges that it entails. :D :drinks:


Yep I shoot the pests on my property cause I need to but I hunt for the sheer pleasure I get from a successful trip and a clean kill :thumbsup:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Sep 2017, 5:27 pm

Bigjobss wrote:Killing an animal is always killing an animal, regardless of species, status as a pest or perception of its intrinsic worth. If it is sustainable, ethical and legal it is all the same.

You can take the supposed moral high ground and say that you only kill for your chosen reason such as meat (which I only do because I have little time and filling the freeszer is #1), but that doesnt make you any different to the trophy hunter, it doesnt make the animal any less dead.


+1
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Baitlayer » 10 Dec 2017, 1:09 pm

Simple! I hunt because I enjoy it. Meat ,trophies eradication of ferals,time with friends and in the bush. All a bonus.but if I didn't enjoy it i wouldn't do it.As i said,Simple !!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Bent Arrow » 10 Dec 2017, 2:46 pm

wildcard6 wrote:Everybody needs to rationalize the 'why' for themselves. My only tip - if you kill for pleasure - seek help!


Saying that someone that gets pleasure out of killing needs help is highly judgemental, irrational and not helpful.

Yes, everyone should evaluate what they are doing and follow a moral code. This applies to every aspect of life, not just hunting. Their actions should easily pass the daylight test, i.e would the people who's opinions you value highly approve of your actions? What would your wife/daughter/son think?

My wife, son and daughter, direct and extended family and many of my clients know that I hunt and that I enjoy it. Anyone that takes five minutes to talk too me knows I follow a moral code, and I've even had people who were previously completely ignorant about hunting take quite an interest in what is involved. There is pleasure (look up the Oxford dictionary definition) to be involved in the full cycle from planning a hunt, the organising, travel, finding suitable game, getting within ethical range, making a good shot, processing the animal, bringing it home, making a healthy meal, and sharing it with your family and friends. If this means I need help, then it's probably because I can't carry out all the meat myself. Grab that end will you mate........
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Member-Deleted » 10 Dec 2017, 8:01 pm

Well Aradoar I would like to ask you a question'' Why now do you see hunting in a different light to what you say you have done prior
in your life'' ?
Most hunters hunt to put meat on the table or eradicate pests a large majority target shoot at clubs and some do both
now I think the same question should be asked why do people play golf or football, cricket and so on
after all they are a sport such as shooting can be
Now lets get to the killing of animals ( leave out ethical kills as you say) some kill to eat (simple)
Shooting of pests is done to keep numbers down as if they get too enormous then farmers either loose a lot of money and
become not viable in their business then some walk off their farms such as happened on some cattle stations because of pigs
destroying grain crops or dogs destroying their cattle daily over long periods
Then there are the sheep farmers with foxes and dog and pig problems continually at their door
Finally why do I hunt ? To eat game meat , done this all my life it works well
To keep pests numbers down so peoples lively hoods are not ruined by dogs , pigs and so on
I do a little target shooting with other families from time to time then have a B-B-Q later
And it makes me happy to know that I am helping families keep their farming future safe by keeping feral numbers down
Finally I grew up hunting and still like it as a sport and pest control, it is a way of living in the bush
We have no murders with firearms only where farmers have turned the rifle on themselves after loosing everything from bad seasons when
feral pests move in and wipe them out
Also some people just like collecting firearms

CHEERS
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