Lets be honest

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

Lets be honest

Post by Member-Deleted » 09 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

I've always had this on my mind, but never got around to making it public. No problem with bench rest, clays,, smallbore,, bigbore etc but hunting is another matter. Having a father whom was a firearms dealer and pro hunter, I grew up with hunting and shooting in all its various forms, and was given opportunities in these areas that few people would have had.. I'm being objective here, not academic, so i'm talking from real life experience.

I've head for decades the theories for game management and sustainable hunting,although this seems to apply to introduced ( i.e feral) animals. particularly deer, and wondered at the ecological benefits of this . Lets preserve the quality of the herd so future generations can enjoy the opportunity to hunt. ( believe me, I listened to ALL the rationale) If we were serious about this, the objective would be to destroy every non native animal in the country. Instead, it appears that these non native animals were being validated so we get to shoot them them for some time to come.

I'm sure this will raise the ire of all you ethical hunters out there, but what is your real agenda.??? Over many years of hunting all kinds of animals from rabbits to crocodiles ( yes, I did shoot crocs), I met countless shooters who killed for fun, to those who shot to put meat on the table. Don't patronize me by saying that your ethical because you dropped a camel with one shot. There is no financial advantage either, the cost of buying meat from the butcher far outweighs the cost of rifle, ammo, gun safe, petrol, licenses and time involved.

I'm not passing judgement on those who choose to hunt, as I've been a subsistence hunter myself in times past, I'd just like to hear from others who honestly want to give their opinion on why they hunt,,,,,,,,

And if your interested, lever action shotguns are crap, Mosin Nagants are the WORST bolt action military rifle bar none( Italians Carcanos come a close second), and buying a magnum caliber will do nothing for your lack of manhood.
Last edited by Member-Deleted on 09 Sep 2017, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by albat » 09 Sep 2017, 12:23 pm

Its the nature of the beast , there is no answer as to why we do it, i guess the people that do are just more wired to their instincts i couldnt give you a definitive reason as to why i've been hunting since i was a kid its just natural for me to be out there hunting
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by southwest shooter » 09 Sep 2017, 12:27 pm

What you talkin bout Willis ?
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Daddybang » 09 Sep 2017, 12:36 pm

BECAUSE I CAN!!!!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 12:40 pm

Cause I like eating deer, goats, pigs etc, that's why I hunt them, I'm not really into the trophy side of things, more interested in decking something for the table if I can and if not eradicate ferals as the next best option (Ie if it's worth eating I will shoot it if it's not I will still shoot it). :drinks:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bladeracer » 09 Sep 2017, 1:28 pm

aradoar234 wrote:I've always had this on my mind, but never got around to making it public. No problem with bench rest, clays,, smallbore,, bigbore etc but hunting is another matter. Having a father whom was a firearms dealer and pro hunter, I grew up with hunting and shooting in all its various forms, and was given opportunities in these areas that few people would have had.. I'm being objective here, not academic, so i'm talking from real life experience.

I've head for decades the theories for game management and sustainable hunting,although this seems to apply to introduced ( i.e feral) animals. particularly deer, and wondered at the ecological benefits of this . Lets preserve the quality of the herd so future generations can enjoy the opportunity to hunt. ( believe me, I listened to ALL the rationale) If we were serious about this, the objective would be to destroy every non native animal in the country. Instead, it appears that these non native animals were being validated so we get to shoot them them for some time to come.

I'm sure this will raise the ire of all you ethical hunters out there, but what is your real agenda.??? Over many years of hunting all kinds of animals from rabbits to crocodiles ( yes, I did shoot crocs), I met countless shooters who killed for fun, to those who shot to put meat on the table. Don't patronise me by saying that your ethical because you dropped a camel with one shot. There is no financial advantage either, the cost of buying meat from the butcher far outweighs the cost of rifle, ammo, gunsafe, petrol, licenses and time involved.

I'm not passing judgement on those who choose to hunt, as I've been a subsistance hunter myself in times past, I'd just like to hear from others who honestly want to give their opinion on why they hunt,,,,,,,,

And if your interested, lever actioned shotguns are crap, mosin nagants are the WORST bolt action military rifle bar none( Italians Carcanos come a close second), and buying a magnum calibre will do nothing for your. lack of manhood


When I was a kid I spent some time living on a dairy farm, which is why I don't like the dairy farming industry - particularly since we have no real need for milk products as humans. I also spent some time killing and butchering sheep in a small abattoir. When you hold an animal and cut it's throat out you can do it viciously or you can try to make it as pain and fear free as possible. The other people around me preferred the former technique, and I accept that some do it this way to make it bearable for their own consciences. I have no high regard for the abattoir industry, but I accept that people need meat and we need to feed billions of people, so shortcuts will be taken - for the greater good and all that.

For me, I feel much better about taking a freely roaming animal from it's chosen environment without fear or pain via a good stalk and a well-placed killing shot. Most of us can't hunt and kill all the meat we eat, but that would be the ideal for me. Hunting deer or pig with dogs is abhorrent to me as it almost requires terrifying the quarry to be successful.

For pests, in that same environment I grew up in I saw first hand the terrible damage that cats, foxes, crows and pigs do to defenceless farm stock and pets, as well as native animals. If I had a deer in my scope and I saw a fox, cat or dog I would probably take them and leave the deer for another day, and be more satisfied with my efforts. Part of the deal with living on those properties as a kid was that I went out every morning and afternoon patrolling for foxes, crows and cats, and trying to convince the galahs and starlings that they should find somebody else's crops to destroy. The fox pelts easily repaid all my costs of shooting, including buying the rifles. I would even use them as money in my mind, as in, a couple of winter furs would buy me that M38 rifle I saw the other day.

I don't shoot trophies, just as I don't buy dying plantlife as gifts for people. I sort of understand why some people do need trophies, but not from living animals. A pair of nice horns or a cleaned skull or a fur is about it for me. I don't need to make the animal I just killed look like it's alive again - the best way to do that is to not kill it. I have no problem at all with canned hunting in third-world countries. We all use the assets we have to make our way in this world. People of the land can do very well at managing their animal assets for enormous benefit to their communities, and have every right to take every dollar they can from the white man, in my opinion.

As a kid I killed thousands of birds and rabbits with shotguns, more than enough to determine it's a very poor choice for killing something cleanly - unless you use slugs or heavy buck at close range. A head or neck shot with a rifle is a much cleaner way to kill birds in my opinion.

As to the important stuff, lever-action anything is crap from a performance or engineering aspect, but can be fun despite this. Mosin rifles are great, they're the Harley-Davidson of rifles, only much, much better. And the 7.62x54R cartridge is basically the .303 but with better taper on the case for easier extraction. But I just cannot fathom why the damned things kick so hard! The Carcano is a wonder to me, so much to hate, but so nice to shoot.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by marksman » 09 Sep 2017, 1:32 pm

I like to help out and put food on the table for my family and a few pensioners in my area but more the whole process is my hobby, what I like to do
but that does not mean I wont shoot feral's, I do
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by AusTac » 09 Sep 2017, 1:37 pm

I'm not really a big hunter myself, but for me stopping a beating heart is a big deal, and not something i really take lightly without good reason no problems shooting whatever it has to be justified, having seen what dogs and foxes can do to livestock, theres certainly good reasons to control populations of feral and native. Have latelly been going after a deer, as i think it's important at least once in my life to take responsibility for food from the bush to the plate, i've got alot to learn though.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 2:40 pm

AusTac wrote:I'm not really a big hunter myself, but for me stopping a beating heart is a big deal, and not something i really take lightly without good reason no problems shooting whatever it has to be justified, having seen what dogs and foxes can do to livestock, theres certainly good reasons to control populations of feral and native. Have latelly been going after a deer, as i think it's important at least once in my life to take responsibility for food from the bush to the plate, i've got alot to learn though.


You'll get used to stopping beating hearts mate, the more you do it the easier it gets. ;) I can't tell you how many 1000's I've stopped over the years (way too many to count) but it does get easier and for me it's just a normal part of everyday life, a bit like breathing, I don't think about that either. :drinks:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Hugh » 09 Sep 2017, 3:13 pm

I'm the opposite the older I got the less making my bag limit became important.Its a combination of things,probably we are hunter gatherers by instinct,getting out in the outdoors,mates and like minded people and the thrill of the hunt,couple of brews,who could complain??
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Bigjobss » 09 Sep 2017, 7:50 pm

Did grampa find the cooking sherry?
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Sep 2017, 7:58 pm

I have never shot natives, introduced species only. That's good for our native fauna & flora.
As mentioned above we are mostly hard wired to hunt, including fishing.
It's also the challenge, being in the bush getting exercise, spotting a few natives. Sometimes food on the table or the dog lucks out.
Let's not forget the preparation and anticipation of a hunt. Not onto trophies, but wouldn't knock one back.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Plinker » 09 Sep 2017, 8:04 pm

I think you're generalising. What if you own stock and a property (in which case you likely need a firearm to manage pests - fox, dogs, cats etc) that backs onto state forest and get deer on your property regularly. Rifle, safe, ammo you have anyway, no petrol needed. At the end of the day it's a redundant discussion - rightly or wrongly deer were released for sport in the late 1800's and if anybody thinks they will ever get rid of them they're deluded. That being the case, if people want to hunt them, they should be allowed to as long as they do so responsibly. Lots of good reasons to do so not least of which is appreciating that for you to eat meat, an animal must die.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Bigjobss » 09 Sep 2017, 8:23 pm

Oldbloke wrote:I have never shot natives, introduced species only. That's good for our native fauna & flora.
As mentioned above we are mostly hard wired to hunt, including fishing.
It's also the challenge, being in the bush getting exercise, spotting a few natives. Sometimes food on the table or the dog lucks out.
Let's not forget the preparation and anticipation of a hunt. Not onto trophies, but wouldn't knock one back.


You are the voice of reason Oldbloke, you waste no words.

Why I hunt is easy to explain:
1) Cultural - my parents immigrated here with subsistence hunting as a norm
2) I eat meat - I genuinely believe that if you cant kill an animal you shouldnt be allowed to eat meat
3) I like learning skills and overcoming challenges
4) Any excuse to get away to the wilderness and sit around a campfire and have a whiskey
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Sep 2017, 8:27 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:I have never shot natives, introduced species only. That's good for our native fauna & flora.
As mentioned above we are mostly hard wired to hunt, including fishing.
It's also the challenge, being in the bush getting exercise, spotting a few natives. Sometimes food on the table or the dog lucks out.
Let's not forget the preparation and anticipation of a hunt. Not onto trophies, but wouldn't knock one back.


You are the voice of reason Oldbloke, you waste no words.

Why I hunt is easy to explain:
1) Cultural - my parents immigrated here with subsistence hunting as a norm
2) I eat meat - I genuinely believe that if you cant kill an animal you shouldnt be allowed to eat meat
3) I like learning skills and overcoming challenges
4) Any excuse to get away to the wilderness and sit around a campfire and have a whiskey


Yeah, in summing up. It's the vibe man. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bladeracer » 09 Sep 2017, 8:29 pm

Bigjobss wrote:4) Any excuse to get away to the wilderness and sit around a campfire and have a whiskey


I was discussing recently the change of moving from the heart of Perth to country Victoria.
In Perth, if I spent an hour sitting reading I'd be worrying about that hour of life passing me by.
Here, I can sit in a field and watch the cows for an hour and actually feel enriched by it - such a different perspective.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Die Judicii » 09 Sep 2017, 8:34 pm

This may well NOT be along the precise bent of the OP but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There was one reply in particular that touched on the act of stopping a beating heart, which prompted this,, my reply.

I have been an active hunter and shooter for 52 years.
Throughout those years I have often wondered about my feelings ( or lack thereof ) when I squeeze the trigger and make something live suddenly dead.

I feel absolutely nothing.
No sadness, no jubilation, no excitement.
It's simply a matter of fact thing.

Am I the only one that is like this ? or,,,,,,, is something wrong with me ?
I do not fear death itself... Only its inopportune timing!
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Archie » 09 Sep 2017, 9:52 pm

Die Judicii wrote:This may well NOT be along the precise bent of the OP but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There was one reply in particular that touched on the act of stopping a beating heart, which prompted this,, my reply.

I have been an active hunter and shooter for 52 years.
Throughout those years I have often wondered about my feelings ( or lack thereof ) when I squeeze the trigger and make something live suddenly dead.

I feel absolutely nothing.
No sadness, no jubilation, no excitement.
It's simply a matter of fact thing.

Am I the only one that is like this ? or,,,,,,, is something wrong with me ?


I feel disappointment when I stuff it up. I don't like wounding things, or slow kills, then I feel pretty bad. I actually don't really enjoy range shooting, but I shoot a lot at the range with the aim that when I am hunting, I only want to have to shoot once. But outside of that, when everything goes as it is supposed to and the animal dies cleanly, I have pretty much the same attitude as you.

As to the OP's question, why I hunt... I don't really buy recreational hunting as an efficient means of feral predator control, although I'll hit send on a bullet if I see a fox, cat etc but mainly because I like native wildlife. I am a strong believer in taking responsibility for the fact that eating meat involves an animal dying, and so in part I hunt for that reason.

But the selfish reason is that I never feel more focused, aware and like I am living in the moment than when I am in the bush trying to be acutely aware of everything thats going on, and using nothing but my own abilities. Its a zen moment for me. I usually work 12-14 hour days, and I'm basically on call 24 hours a day in a fairly stressful job; I hunt because it's one of the very few times my brain isn't running three different trains of thought about what I need to do tomorrow or next week or next month, but just what am I doing right here right now.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Bigjobss » 09 Sep 2017, 9:53 pm

Die Judicii wrote:This may well NOT be along the precise bent of the OP but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There was one reply in particular that touched on the act of stopping a beating heart, which prompted this,, my reply.

I have been an active hunter and shooter for 52 years.
Throughout those years I have often wondered about my feelings ( or lack thereof ) when I squeeze the trigger and make something live suddenly dead.

I feel absolutely nothing.
No sadness, no jubilation, no excitement.
It's simply a matter of fact thing.

Am I the only one that is like this ? or,,,,,,, is something wrong with me ?


Nothing at all wrong with you, you sound normal to me.
We are predators, it is what we do, a few decades of ignoring this does not change the thousands of years of evolution.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Rikta » 09 Sep 2017, 9:56 pm

I shoot to eradicate pests, anyone that thinks we are going to eliminate pig, goats, foxes, cats and rabbits aswell as wild dogs, horses, camels and donkeys in WA alone is a nutter. keep em at bay is the aim of the game.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 9:56 pm

Die Judicii wrote:This may well NOT be along the precise bent of the OP but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There was one reply in particular that touched on the act of stopping a beating heart, which prompted this,, my reply.

I have been an active hunter and shooter for 52 years.
Throughout those years I have often wondered about my feelings ( or lack thereof ) when I squeeze the trigger and make something live suddenly dead.

I feel absolutely nothing.
No sadness, no jubilation, no excitement.
It's simply a matter of fact thing.

Am I the only one that is like this ? or,,,,,,, is something wrong with me ?


Nope I feel the same, I make sure I do it as humanely as possible and that's as best I can do really, I certainly don't try to cause them unnecessary pain, I generally take head shots or heart/lung shots to euthanize them ASAP - which is the most important part for me. :thumbsup:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by in2anity » 09 Sep 2017, 10:36 pm

Allowing dear to co-exist with native species is in itself unethical (from the perspective of the native species), so yes from their perspective, we should eradicate them. But if the same logic was applied to humanity, isn't this classified as genocide? I mean let's be realistic, the only reason mankind has reached the current level of advancement is because of multiculturalism and change and "invading". My point is everything on this planet was and always is changing; there's literally no stopping evolutionary advancement across all species, whether we like it or not. So why do we get so hung up on preserving the past? I guess it boils down to our natural desire to protect our comfortable little bubble (at the cost of those who don't have bubbles at all). But getting back to "protecting native species", god we've got so many more important challenges facing mankind to deal with than a few rogue pests "threatening the local wildlife". Honestly I think it was just some greenies path to significance at some point, and the major parties don't ever challenge the public's perception on sensitive subjects such as this because it would be immediately labeled by the media as "politically incorrect" (to sell some more adds I might add), and us plebs in front of A Current Affair lap it up. To summarize, my opinion: who f******g cares, let all creatures do what creatures naturally do (the kill-each-other race-to-top), shoot em if it gives you a hard on, heck stuff em and put them on your mantle, but pls, can we just FOCUS ON THE IMPORTANT STUFF PEOPLE (like the state of world politics). K rant over; just my 2c considering OP asked for it ;) This could get interesting....
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 10:40 pm

in2anity wrote:Allowing dear to co-exist with native species is in itself unethical (from the perspective of the native species), so yes from their perspective, we should eradicate them. But if the same logic was applied to humanity, isn't this classified as genocide? I mean let's be realistic, the only reason mankind has reached the current level of advancement is because of multiculturalism and change and "invading". My point is everything on this planet was and is always changing; there's literally no stopping evolutionary advancement across all species, whether we like it or not. So why do we get so hung up on preserving the past? I guess it boils down to our natural desire to protect our comfortable little bubble (at the cost of those who don't have bubbles at all). But getting back to "protecting native species", god we've got so many more important challenges facing mankind to deal with than a few rogue pests "threatening the local wildlife". Honestly I think it was just some greenies path to significance at some point, and the major parties don't ever challenge the public's perception on sensitive subjects such as this because it would be immediately labeled by the media as "politically incorrect" (to sell some more adds I might add), and us plebs in front of A Current Affair lap it up. Just my 2c considering OP asked for it ;)


Do you seriously still watch that crap? :silent:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by in2anity » 09 Sep 2017, 10:56 pm

The fact that it's on at possibly THE most primetime slot actually depresses me about the state of humanity
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 10:58 pm

I can honestly say I don't want any "Current Affairs" shows or any news shows for that matter and I don't read newspapers or any news websites, I honestly couldn't give a s**t what any of them have to say anymore, it's all lies and designed to manipulate the gullible and stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Best thing I ever did was switch off from the "News" so much happier about not being brain trained! :thumbsup:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by in2anity » 09 Sep 2017, 11:01 pm

bigfellascott wrote:I can honestly say I don't want any "Current Affairs" shows or any news shows for that matter and I don't read newspapers or any news websites, I honestly couldn't give a s**t what any of them have to say anymore, it's all lies and designed to manipulate the gullible and stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Best thing I ever did was switch off from the "News" so much happier about not being brain trained! :thumbsup:


Wise move my friend - the amount of unbiased, objective news outlets (even premium payed like the Fin Review) these days is virtually non existent. Anyway I digress, I've been doing that a lot recently around here whoops sorry OP
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Sep 2017, 11:04 pm

in2anity wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:I can honestly say I don't want any "Current Affairs" shows or any news shows for that matter and I don't read newspapers or any news websites, I honestly couldn't give a s**t what any of them have to say anymore, it's all lies and designed to manipulate the gullible and stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Best thing I ever did was switch off from the "News" so much happier about not being brain trained! :thumbsup:


Wise move my friend - the amount of unbiased, objective news outlets (even premium payed like the Fin Review) these days is virtually non existent. Anyway I digress, I've been doing that a lot recently around here whoops sorry OP


Mate all media outlets are owned by a handful of people who have agenda's - once you really realise that you will start to realise you are being conned and trained to think a certain way, getting the "Media" out of your life will free you from this what I call a "Prison Life" where you are controlled by what they feed you and make you feel and fear. :thumbsup:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by in2anity » 09 Sep 2017, 11:21 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:I can honestly say I don't want any "Current Affairs" shows or any news shows for that matter and I don't read newspapers or any news websites, I honestly couldn't give a s**t what any of them have to say anymore, it's all lies and designed to manipulate the gullible and stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Best thing I ever did was switch off from the "News" so much happier about not being brain trained! :thumbsup:


Wise move my friend - the amount of unbiased, objective news outlets (even premium payed like the Fin Review) these days is virtually non existent. Anyway I digress, I've been doing that a lot recently around here whoops sorry OP


Mate all media outlets are owned by a handful of people who have agenda's - once you really realise that you will start to realise you are being conned and trained to think a certain way, getting the "Media" out of your life will free you from this what I call a "Prison Life" where you are controlled by what they feed you and make you feel and fear. :thumbsup:


But I enjoy reading the paper in the sun - very nostalgic for me. Such a shame and I 100% agree with you BF :drinks: :friends:
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Sep 2017, 11:59 pm

I only watch SBS & ABC for the same reasons above. Not perfect but much better.
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Re: Lets be honest

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Sep 2017, 12:01 am

Hey BFS. look at your posts. Won't be long and you will crack 4444.
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