Levers are fun :-)

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 02 Oct 2017, 12:54 pm

I rang my local this morning to ask what lever rifles he has handy.
Then I dashed in and bought two.
Grabbed a Norinco JW21 in .22LR and a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. I do plan to get a .45/70 eventually and I think Marlin makes the best of those, so I decided I might as well grab a Marlin in .44 Magnum as well. The 1894 has a very heavy, but nicely crisp trigger. The 1895 in .45/70 has an horrendous trigger. Very heavy, very creepy, and an imprecise break. He has a Pedersoli in .444 Marlin as well and that has a beautiful trigger. I also looked at a Chiappa and a Henry.
Already put some .44's downrange, now playing with the .22 :-)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 02 Oct 2017, 1:07 pm

Supaduke and Henries... In

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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Wm.Traynor » 02 Oct 2017, 1:28 pm

My lever is a good one .................now.
But it wasn't always and had to be beaten in to submission early in its upbringing. Hope you have better luck, bladeracer.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Supaduke » 02 Oct 2017, 3:13 pm

Sniff......triggers on my leverguns were spot on... Can't remember what brand they are. Shemry or something like that.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Stix » 02 Oct 2017, 6:15 pm

Yes Bladeracer they are...
Ive wanted one for a long time & have managed to curb my enthusiasm...
Although im struggling with it today...

30 odd years ago i used to play with the Winchester levers in my ol'mans collection (back in the day when they were neatly displayed on the wall in the pool room).

I just got back from a o/nite bunny chasing jaunt with the ol'man--who finally gave in to my ever nagging, & he bought his old Win carbine 32-20. ..(not sure of the model)...just 3 shots into a discarded poison bottle on the farm & im gone...
Now my "wanting" seems to have turned into an urgent "needing"...damit...!
Dam it was fun...!!!!
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 03 Oct 2017, 8:49 am

Stix wrote:Yes Bladeracer they are...
Ive wanted one for a long time & have managed to curb my enthusiasm...
Although im struggling with it today...

30 odd years ago i used to play with the Winchester levers in my ol'mans collection (back in the day when they were neatly displayed on the wall in the pool room).

I just got back from a o/nite bunny chasing jaunt with the ol'man--who finally gave in to my ever nagging, & he bought his old Win carbine 32-20. ..(not sure of the model)...just 3 shots into a discarded poison bottle on the farm & im gone...
Now my "wanting" seems to have turned into an urgent "needing"...damit...!
Dam it was fun...!!!!


I don't like lever rifles myself, never have, for purely practical reasons. I did come oh so close to buying a 9422M when I was seventeen but it was way too expensive and I bought the Stirling M1500 instead. I have used some levers though and they will certainly do what's asked of them.
I only got a hankering to play with levers a few weeks ago, but the cows calving put life on hold for a bit.

The Norinco has a strange sight picture which I think is called "semi-buckhorn"? It has a small V notch but two huge ears above it that block out your view around the target. After fifty rounds or so I started to get familiar with it and it shoots into about 2" at 50m with Highland Subsonic, so it looks very promising once I find what it really likes. Only put 3.5 boxes through it yesterday and between the .44 recoil and working the lever my shoulder is hurting today :-)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 03 Oct 2017, 8:56 am

Stix wrote:I just got back from a o/nite bunny chasing jaunt with the ol'man--who finally gave in to my ever nagging, & he bought his old Win carbine 32-20. ..(not sure of the model)...just 3 shots into a discarded poison bottle on the farm & im gone...
Now my "wanting" seems to have turned into an urgent "needing"...damit...!
Dam it was fun...!!!!


The shop also has an M92 in .32-20, round barrel. Nice rifle but I can't justify $800 (I think he said) on a .32-20. I was given an hexagonal barrel '92 in the Kimberley to chase down a rogue donkey, but once I fired it it became clear that .32-20 is not donkey medicine! I returned it later and told him I hadn't managed to find the donkey. I had seen it though and managed to get to about 20m of it before it spotted me. Biggest donkey I ever saw, far bigger than his herd of females. They culled them by helicopter a couple times a year which was pretty amazing to watch.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 03 Oct 2017, 9:02 am

bladeracer, of course depends what you're doing with 44, but if it's plinkatron3000 kind of use, casting and loading down makes it into such a fun gun, with insignificant recoil.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Prios » 03 Oct 2017, 9:08 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:My lever is a good one .................now.
But it wasn't always and had to be beaten in to submission early in its upbringing. Hope you have better luck, bladeracer.


Sticky to cycle to start with or what?
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Wm.Traynor » 03 Oct 2017, 10:27 am

Prios wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:My lever is a good one .................now.
But it wasn't always and had to be beaten in to submission early in its upbringing. Hope you have better luck, bladeracer.


Sticky to cycle to start with or what?

Lots of things wrong. Have posted the saga in "Gunsmithing" or you could look up my posts.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Wm.Traynor » 03 Oct 2017, 10:46 am

Wm.Traynor wrote:
Prios wrote:
Wm.Traynor wrote:My lever is a good one .................now.
But it wasn't always and had to be beaten in to submission early in its upbringing. Hope you have better luck, bladeracer.


Sticky to cycle to start with or what?

Lots of things wrong. Have posted the saga in "Gunsmithing" or you could look up my posts.


After having a look myself, I found the following address
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6021
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Stix » 03 Oct 2017, 10:55 am

bladeracer wrote:
Stix wrote:Yes Bladeracer they are...
Ive wanted one for a long time & have managed to curb my enthusiasm...
Although im struggling with it today...

30 odd years ago i used to play with the Winchester levers in my ol'mans collection (back in the day when they were neatly displayed on the wall in the pool room).

I just got back from a o/nite bunny chasing jaunt with the ol'man--who finally gave in to my ever nagging, & he bought his old Win carbine 32-20. ..(not sure of the model)...just 3 shots into a discarded poison bottle on the farm & im gone...
Now my "wanting" seems to have turned into an urgent "needing"...damit...!
Dam it was fun...!!!!


I don't like lever rifles myself, never have, for purely practical reasons. I did come oh so close to buying a 9422M when I was seventeen but it was way too expensive and I bought the Stirling M1500 instead. I have used some levers though and they will certainly do what's asked of them.
I only got a hankering to play with levers a few weeks ago, but the cows calving put life on hold for a bit.

The Norinco has a strange sight picture which I think is called "semi-buckhorn"? It has a small V notch but two huge ears above it that block out your view around the target. After fifty rounds or so I started to get familiar with it and it shoots into about 2" at 50m with Highland Subsonic, so it looks very promising once I find what it really likes. Only put 3.5 boxes through it yesterday and between the .44 recoil and working the lever my shoulder is hurting today :-)


The title of your thread said nothing about practicality...but everything about fun...
The best cap gun i ever shot as a kid was definately a lever...!!! Lost count of how many imaginary Indians i shot in the back yard. :lol:

Id never wallop a donkey with this old 32-20...

But hell, a friendly comp busting a few cans at 20 paces against the clock where the looser has to do the camp dishes is something ill get in on... :clap:

A few more boxes thru the .44 over the coming weeks will soon season up that shoulder...

Enjoy it mate...!
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 03 Oct 2017, 11:11 am

juststarting wrote:bladeracer, of course depends what you're doing with 44, but if it's plinkatron3000 kind of use, casting and loading down makes it into such a fun gun, with insignificant recoil.


Cast lead is my intent for this rifle, I just never managed to get any cast up yet. And since my brother was down for the weekend I thought I'd grab some factory stuff just so we could have a play while he was here :-)
Reusing the lead I'm hoping I can shoot the .44 almost as cheaply as my .22's.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 03 Oct 2017, 11:25 am

I don't know about almost, but probably around 20c - 30c :)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by burek » 03 Oct 2017, 11:32 am

I also picked up a Henry classic 22lr few days ago. Thought I'd dip my toes in with a 22. Weather has been terrible so the only action it's been getting is a bit of fondling.

I must say, it looks and feels a lot better than the price suggests.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by marksman » 03 Oct 2017, 1:24 pm

yes levers are fun, I used to have a few but when winchester went broke they became to valuable that I sold them for a hefty profit
I felt bad because I had said these levers will be going to my boy and he will have a lot of fun with them so with the profit I had a 17 ackley hornet made for him
and I'm rapt to say he shot his first rabbit with it yesterday which was more fun for me :thumbsup:
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bigpete » 03 Oct 2017, 8:52 pm

bladeracer wrote:
juststarting wrote:bladeracer, of course depends what you're doing with 44, but if it's plinkatron3000 kind of use, casting and loading down makes it into such a fun gun, with insignificant recoil.


Cast lead is my intent for this rifle, I just never managed to get any cast up yet. And since my brother was down for the weekend I thought I'd grab some factory stuff just so we could have a play while he was here :-)
Reusing the lead I'm hoping I can shoot the .44 almost as cheaply as my .22's.


I reckon I'm loading bought cast lead for just under 20c a shot, 10c of which is the bullet. Casting will get it under or around 10c a shot
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 03 Oct 2017, 9:12 pm

Mmmm I think this may be an underestimate.

44REM MAG using 2205 @ 19gr per cartridge (plinking load)

500gm (7716grains) of 2205 at say $45 give or take - that's 45/7716*19 = 11c per powder charge

11c powder charge
6c for primer
1c (guessing here, but let's say 1c for lube per lubed bullet, because lube components are not free)

If you're gas checking, that's another 6c

So you are looking at 18c minimum. 24c with gas check.

If you are going to count lead alloy that's not free, then say purchased WW go for $3/kg (local ripoff metal recyclers near me) - 240gr bullet (16gm), that's roughly another 6c (rounded up to 5c + 1c overhead because 3kg of raw material is less after fluxing).

So depends how you do it, you are looking at 18c - 30c
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2017, 8:54 am

Hmmm no its not
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2017, 9:54 am

juststarting wrote:Mmmm I think this may be an underestimate.

44REM MAG using 2205 @ 19gr per cartridge (plinking load)

500gm (7716grains) of 2205 at say $45 give or take - that's 45/7716*19 = 11c per powder charge

11c powder charge
6c for primer
1c (guessing here, but let's say 1c for lube per lubed bullet, because lube components are not free)

If you're gas checking, that's another 6c

So you are looking at 18c minimum. 24c with gas check.

If you are going to count lead alloy that's not free, then say purchased WW go for $3/kg (local ripoff metal recyclers near me) - 240gr bullet (16gm), that's roughly another 6c (rounded up to 5c + 1c overhead because 3kg of raw material is less after fluxing).

So depends how you do it, you are looking at 18c - 30c


For plinking I wouldn't use rifle powder. I'll be using either around 6gn of AP70N or 4gn of Trailboss so yes, closer to 10cents a shot with reclaimed lead. I'm casting 200gn bullets so 76 per kg of lead at $10/kg is 13 cents a piece for new bullets. I do have about 30kg of new lead but by far most of my bullets are made from reclaimed .22LR bullets.
Lube is not free, but as I get a bottle of it with every sizing die I have several lifetimes worth already.
I bought fifty rounds of 240gn JSP American Eagle for $80 or $1.60 a shot, probably less as he did me a deal on the bundle of both rifles, the ammo and AP70N powder.
I paid $550 for 5000rds of CCI Std Vel or 11 cents a round so I'll be more than happy to shoot the .44 Mag for similar cost :-)

I'm hopeful of finding an hour to throw some cast lead later today.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bigpete » 04 Oct 2017, 11:31 am

You got the idea. 7gn of trailboss don't cost much
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 04 Oct 2017, 11:38 am

All I'm hearing is that I need more powder :)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2017, 11:44 am

juststarting wrote:All I'm hearing is that I need more powder :)



You say that now, and then you get home and start wondering "where the hell can I fit another bottle of powder?" :-)
Powder takes up more room than shot shells!
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by juststarting » 04 Oct 2017, 11:47 am

Already buy in 4kg ;)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 04 Oct 2017, 2:36 pm

I put my Redfield Retribution 3-9x on the Norinco just now and put 100rds of CCI SV through it at 50m. I burned the first box just trying to zero the damned scope, thought I had it then in the middle of a group it shifted about seven-inches to the left.
Pretty happy with the rifle though :-)
If I make an effort I can put five rounds into one-inch at 50m, ten rounds opens it up a bit, but even fifteen rounds still fall within a two-inch circle.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Sydor » 04 Oct 2017, 7:33 pm

Chiappa in .357 is a beauty!
All of them, but Alaskan is the best!
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 05 Oct 2017, 8:21 am

Sydor wrote:Chiappa in .357 is a beauty!
All of them, but Alaskan is the best!


I'm really not into what they look like, how they handle and how they shoot is what matters to me :-)
I do intend to get a .357 lever as well though.

I also put some boxes of Eley Sport, Eley Subsonic, Eley Edge and Highland Target through the JW21 yesterday.
While it can shoot some excellent four-shot clusters in five-shot groups, there's invariably one flier way out. Something odd is the number of times the first shot from a full magazine drops low left.
415rds through it so far.

Feeding can be a problem, though it seems to mainly be due to bullet design, and particularly HP bullets tend to jam into the right side of the chamber edge - there's quite a collection of shaved lead in the right side of the action. I can't recall any that have caught on the left side so it might be a matter of adjusting the lifter perhaps. Less likely with the CCI SV, but still an occasional jam. I've had two or three rounds come off the lifter and jam up the action, including one instance where I discovered three rounds bouncing around in the action, despite only opened the lever once - maybe the magazine cut-off was dirty. And a few times the bullet has gone into the chamber okay but the case head has been high or low against the bolt face and the case gets jammed into the chamber at an angle. No entirely unexpected problems so far and hopefully a good cleaning, inspection and some finesse and polishing might be able to improve it. It's not possible to simply drop a round into the action and have it chamber as with a pump shotgun, so loading it singly is a real pain - I would not suggest ever taking it to any range that requires single-loading.

I've only owned one tube-mag .22 before - Winchester Model 190 - brilliant little rifle, accurate and would feed everything without a glitch - but I now recall why I don't like tube mags :-) No way of knowing what's left in the tube, and slow, awkward loading at the wrong end of the barrel. The Henry captive follower is a better system than the full-length removable tube that you need to coax over each of the fifteen rims to get it back in.

Ejection is very positive, hurling the brass out at two-o'clock. Once I sort the feeding problems then I'll be able to make up some sort of case catcher for it. There is no accommodation for comfort of the firing hand. Working the lever with the back of the fingers is just painful, and having to remove the hand to operate it with the thumb removes any advantage the lever design might offer over a bolt rifle. Gripping the wrist through the loop is equally uncomfortable due to the narrow sharp edges. I'm thinking I might have to round off all the edges and either re-blue or polish the lever, but I'll try wrapping it in rubber tube first.

I think before I do any more shooting with it I'll have to strip it completely to clean and inspect everything.
But overall, the fun factor is high, and the accuracy is reasonable - I quite enjoy shooting it :-)
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 06 Oct 2017, 5:19 pm

I managed to get some casting done today - 250 200gn .429", 100 125gn .358" and 150 90gn .314" bullets.
I'll lube some of the .429's tonight and load them up for testing tomorrow. And hopefully I can try powder coating some over the weekend.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by bladeracer » 11 Oct 2017, 5:16 pm

Well, I managed to get out in the rain this arvo and shoot some .44 Magnum and put another 50rds through the JW21.
The 200gn FP's I cast I pushed with 7.5gn of Trailboss. They shot nicely but accuracy was abysmal - something around 500mm at 50m, and about 400mm to the left, although elevation was fine.
I'll have to try again, but I'm glad I only loaded five of them for testing. They penetrated only two layers of my 16mm rubber bullet stop.
The Norinco shot really well with only one jam in fifty rounds when a round fell off the right side of the lifter. I dropped it into the chamber but it was the last round of the upper right group and flew way off to the left, ruining an otherwise nice cluster. But I did shoot a five-round 16.5mm group with CCI SV which is pretty impressive I think.

And the conveyor belt bullet stop works mint, all the bullets simply drop into the tray at the bottom, no more digging them out with the metal detector! I found two strange ones though, where a bullet has embedded itself into one that was stuck in the rubber and they've become twice the normal size of a .22LR bullet :-) At 50m, roughly a third of the .22's embedded themselves into the second sheet, but I'm sure they'll also drop free as I shoot more into it.
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Re: Levers are fun :-)

Post by Wm.Traynor » 11 Oct 2017, 7:16 pm

Crikey mate; that was done in adverse conditions :thumbsup:
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