Plastic parts in rifles.

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Plastic parts in rifles.

Post by colinbentley » 30 Oct 2017, 10:06 am

I cannot understand why some manufacturers incorporate plastic parts in their rifles. About a year ago I bought a second hand Steyr Mannlicher which appeared to me to be in good condition. A few months later the plastic magazine literally fell apart costing from memory about $170 to replace. Last week wanted to use so took it out to clean and a little plastic clip which holds the magazine in broke. So off to the gunsmith only to find the whole trigger guard which is plastic needs replacing. I was under the impression that Steyr Mannlicher was a top end sought after rifle. Why oh why do they use plastic parts ? I have no idea about the age of the gun as it was part of a deceased estate. But still.......why plastic ?
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Post by Chronos » 30 Oct 2017, 10:18 am

If the right material is chosen “plastic” is light, strong and more resilient than metal parts. Look at the Tikka T3, people cry about the plastic trigger guard and even pay to replace them with alloy ones. Show me one broken plastic one. I’ve never seen one break and even filmed myself smashing one with a hammer with no damage.

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Post by Tripod » 30 Oct 2017, 10:19 am

It is why I prefer rifles made last century during the period when manufacturers were in a race to the top, Sadly they are now in a race to the bottom, As in who can make it the cheapest and sell the most to maximise profit.
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Post by MalleeFarmer » 30 Oct 2017, 10:20 am

This is why i buy Howa Rifles.. well Built and aside from a plastic follower all metal.
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Post by wrenchman » 30 Oct 2017, 11:41 am

its howe they keep costs down i agree with you but you see it a lot now days i tend to be old school wood and steel
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Post by bigfellascott » 30 Oct 2017, 2:09 pm

Ir's the way of the world sadly, cheap and quick to make increases ones profit margin. As Steve said it all comes down to what types of material they use as to whether it will stand the test of time (M16 I used to use was plastic and metal) it managed to last the distance but felt like crap to use!

Me I'm more your wood and metal type person but can see the benefits of plastic stocks etc, not that I like them but do understand they have their place.
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Post by RoginaJack » 30 Oct 2017, 3:42 pm

I can remember, many years ago using a Remington 22 semi-auto Nylon 66 Mohawk rifle with white spacers and it wasn't of the quality plastic build nowadays, went OK though, had no problems that I can recall.
AND plastic, it still bugs me!
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Post by GLS_1956 » 30 Oct 2017, 4:03 pm

And the debate goes on. I'm 61 and when I started shooting you almost never saw a gun that wasn't made out of steel and wood. The M-1 Garand that my dad carried in WWII was, as he put it: "Nine and one-half pounds of steel and wood, not one piece of aluminum or plastic to be found." Today's service rifles are mostly polymers and non-ferrous metals. In other cases it is because the polymer material is the right choice for the job.

I have polymer magazines for my Ruger 10/22 and 77/22 and they give great dependable service. The same can be said for the non-metallic magazines I have for the Ruger SR 556 and Mini-14 rifles, they have a degree of self lubricity and the bodies and followers can't rust, yes the springs still can as can the metal feed lips on the Ruger rotary magazines.

By the way, have you noticed the increasing use of polymers and aluminum in todays autos.
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Post by Oldbloke » 30 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

Plastic has Pro's and cons. One big pro is more people can afford to shoot.
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Post by in2anity » 31 Oct 2017, 1:25 am

And what about weight-reduction? Many forms of the sport demand as-light-as-possible.
Leaves a little more room for weight where it really counts like barrel diameter. After all most of us are Chris Kyle wannabes right? Just playing devils advocate I suppose...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Post by in2anity » 31 Oct 2017, 1:36 am

Oldbloke wrote:Plastic has Pro's and cons. One big pro is more people can afford to shoot.


Oh and btw totally agree with this. Well said OB.
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Post by MalleeFarmer » 31 Oct 2017, 7:20 am

In2 and OB are both on the money. Injection Moulding is cheap conpared to milling or forging. And so makes high quality rifles more affordable by substituting some more expensive parts for plastic. Also as In2 said some disiplines have weight restrictions so having polymer in parts of the rifle to save weight so they can add elsewhere is also possibly a good use for polymers.
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Post by Supaduke » 31 Oct 2017, 8:01 am

This is the same argument as cars. When blokes can't believe their 69 Charger is actually a heavy P.O.S. that doesn't turn and doesn't stop.
Yes they look nice absolutely no doubt.

Modern polymers and plastics are light, strong and cheap. The ONLY reason older rifles didn't use plastics, alloys and polymers is because they hadn't been invented.

Wood has a nice feel and looks nice.
Plastics and polymers are superior in every technical aspect.

Don't fall into the old man trap of "everything new is sh1t".

The consumer dictates the market.
If everyone was prepared to pay top dollar for high quality wood and steel that's all that would be available.

People want cheaper rifles, hence companies sell cheaper rifles.

There is a debate on the Lithgow FB site now to try and get Lithgow to build 'new' SMLE's.
Who the hell is going to pay north of $3000 for a SMLE.....

Easy enough to say on the internet "yeah I would buy one". But I don't see too many people reaching into their wallets.
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Post by GLS_1956 » 31 Oct 2017, 8:36 am

RoginaJack wrote:I can remember, many years ago using a Remington 22 semi-auto Nylon 66 Mohawk rifle with white spacers and it wasn't of the quality plastic build nowadays, went OK though, had no problems that I can recall.
AND plastic, it still bugs me!


Jack, I inherited a Nylon 66, Black Diamond, from my father. And like you said it isn't/wasn't up to the standard of polyguns of today. Last time I took it to the range I would have sworn that a box of 50 rounds weighed more than the gun, but you know it fired every round I put through it and gave quite good accuracy to boot.
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Post by RoginaJack » 31 Oct 2017, 3:37 pm

Yes, I had great service out of mine but unfortunately semi-autos are just day dreams to a lot us us now...
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Post by marksman » 31 Oct 2017, 4:32 pm

plastic is not better than steel, its cheap and that's why its used by the budget market as a throw away,
just like car parts and electronics that are made today they are not made to repair just toss them and buy a new one,
and that is why colinbently put this post up and I agree because plastic in rifle's is going cheap not better
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Post by darwindingo » 31 Oct 2017, 4:48 pm

Loved my old Nylon 66, I knocked over a hell of a lot bunnies with it. Good little gun, never had any issues with it. Wish I still had it.. :(
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Post by Ed9362 » 31 Oct 2017, 4:50 pm

why isn't plastic better when you are talking stacks and magazines at least (a plastic barrel wouldn't be very good)?
its cheaper and easier to manufacture, its lighter, in most cases its more durable (not many people are concerned about scratching their polymer T3 stock) not to mention it wont scratch dint or rust
I prefer wood and metal but mostly because I prefer the look and feel. from a practical point of view modern plastics are a great material to manufacture gun parts from
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Post by marksman » 31 Oct 2017, 5:07 pm

I have just finished bedding a brand new T3x with a twisted new plastic stock and seen heaps of tikka plastic bottom metals torqued to the factory specs cracked as well as the stocks cracking, plastic mags that wont fit properly and fallout because the edges where they fit have rounded, saw a rem with plastic stock bend in the sun, have seen plastic stocks with scratches and dents, I do think there is a place for them but they are not indestructible as we are led to believe
colinbently said his mag cost $170 I don't see that as cheap and would rather a steel one he also said it did not take long to fall apart
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Post by Tripod » 31 Oct 2017, 5:15 pm

The thing with plastics is that they deteriorate and there is nothing you can really do to protect it, Sooner or latter it will go brittle and crack. Wood and steel deteriorate too but it is easy to protect. How many of the modern rifles will we still be playing with when they are 100 years old?
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Post by marksman » 31 Oct 2017, 6:02 pm

Tripod wrote:The thing with plastics is that they deteriorate and there is nothing you can really do to protect it, Sooner or latter it will go brittle and crack. Wood and steel deteriorate too but it is easy to protect. How many of the modern rifles will we still be playing with when they are 100 years old?


spot on :drinks:
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Post by Oldbloke » 31 Oct 2017, 6:28 pm

marksman wrote:
Tripod wrote:The thing with plastics is that they deteriorate and there is nothing you can really do to protect it, Sooner or latter it will go brittle and crack. Wood and steel deteriorate too but it is easy to protect. How many of the modern rifles will we still be playing with when they are 100 years old?


spot on :drinks:


If the correct plastic is used it shouldn't happen.
Some do break down with sun exposure but a chemical is added to make that happen. Most plastics take eons to break down and therefore an environmental problem.

The argument is pointless, it depends on the users need.
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Post by bladeracer » 31 Oct 2017, 7:11 pm

sungazer wrote:Sorry plastic is just wrong yes wood dents but other than that if you cant be bothered to look after them your not really enjoying the hobby. I love oiling the wood stocks. Not the ones that have been coated in a two pack polyethylene paint but the real homemade stocks that are oiled and waxed. Such a peaceful soothing process and that dent can be sanded back a bit if you really want. Sometimes I wish for a second wood stock on some of my rifles one for the field and the other just to look beautiful.I'm not into that crazy money that some spend on the shotgun stocks. Luckily that look is not my taste anyway. I prefer seeing the grain in the wood and sort of like a laminate when it varies with the stock contour. Not so much that marble or fiddle back look.


I don't think I can agree with your first point. What you are actually suggesting is "if you can't make looking after your firearms much more time consuming than it needs be then you're not really enjoying the hobby". If I don't shoot for aesthetic reasons why would I want the chore of having to care for the aesthetics of my firearms? I care for my firearms to optimise performance and long life. If one has a wooden stock then obviously I need to maintain that as well, but to choose that over inert plastic or metal is just silly.
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Post by marksman » 01 Nov 2017, 9:51 am

bladeracer wrote:
sungazer wrote:Sorry plastic is just wrong yes wood dents but other than that if you cant be bothered to look after them your not really enjoying the hobby. I love oiling the wood stocks. Not the ones that have been coated in a two pack polyethylene paint but the real homemade stocks that are oiled and waxed. Such a peaceful soothing process and that dent can be sanded back a bit if you really want. Sometimes I wish for a second wood stock on some of my rifles one for the field and the other just to look beautiful.I'm not into that crazy money that some spend on the shotgun stocks. Luckily that look is not my taste anyway. I prefer seeing the grain in the wood and sort of like a laminate when it varies with the stock contour. Not so much that marble or fiddle back look.


I don't think I can agree with your first point. What you are actually suggesting is "if you can't make looking after your firearms much more time consuming than it needs be then you're not really enjoying the hobby". If I don't shoot for aesthetic reasons why would I want the chore of having to care for the aesthetics of my firearms? I care for my firearms to optimise performance and long life. If one has a wooden stock then obviously I need to maintain that as well, but to choose that over inert plastic or metal is just silly.


you don't have to do anything special to care for a wooden stock, its already protected by its finish but you have the alternative to refinish if you want to
its like saying I don't want a metal action or barrel as I might have to do something to stop it from rusting?
there is a place for the synthetics no doubt at all and some shooters really like them, even for the aesthetics and feel of it but the salesman pitch to say that plastic stocks are better than timber, maintenance free and unbreakable is bulls**t, it is an each to there own
but really how often do you think a wooden stock is refinished :unknown:
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Post by MalleeFarmer » 01 Nov 2017, 12:43 pm

Ill add something to this from my perspective as a farmer. I hate plastic parts on rifles ie. mags, floorplates/trigger guards, bolt shrouds you name it i hate em. But stocks are a slightly different story. yes many standard equipment plastic stocks are horrendous i have used a T3 with standard plastic stock and man did that make the rifle feel cheap. But it still shot <MOA and was very practical for the bloke who owned it a farmer and it was his ute rifle timber would chip and scratch and look as bad as plastic in short order. I have also used a howa where the plastic stock had a very inconsistent flex and may or may not touch the barrel giving a very inconsistent POI this is BAD in anyones Books. I personally prefer Timber it doesnt flex (much) and if well cared for will last as long as the rifle its attched to but more expensive polymer stocks such as mcmillan, GRS and others make exceptional stocks that will also last as long as any timber stock or longer also increase your rifles accuracy and look awesome. The question is what do you want from your rifle?
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Post by pete1 » 01 Nov 2017, 1:35 pm

MalleeFarmer wrote:This is why i buy Howa Rifles.. well Built and aside from a plastic follower all metal.


Agree, old Howas had metal follower, made it alot smother.
Wish there was a aftermarket manufacture made them out of steel, I'd buy one.
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Post by scoobs » 01 Nov 2017, 7:46 pm

there is nothing wrong with plastic. it has its place. the problem lies with cheap plastic parts.
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Re: Plastic parts in rifles.

Post by colinbentley » 04 Nov 2017, 3:23 pm

Was pleasantly surprised that it only cost $140 for my gunsmith to replace the trigger guard on my Steyr Mannlicher. I was expecting much more as the plastic magazine cost me about $170. Still surprised at the use of plastic as this gun I think would go back to the 1970s. Speaking of cars , I have a 2000 model Jaguar XJ8. year ago the engine housing to which the radiator hoses are connected are -plastic which fell apart. Now replaced with metal. This is a Jaguar for heavens sake. I do expect quality from such a car.......not plastic.
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