First rounds in the .223 Ruger American Predator.

[bladeracer]

I put the first rounds through my .223 Ruger American Predator this arvo. I didn't even bother running a patch through the bore as it looked just fine. I only had a front bag and the chrono has been out in the rain and wouldn't give me consistent readings (I later discovered a spider living on one of the sensors).

Brand new rifle so I put five rounds through to foul the bore (used 52gn bullets swaged from .22LR brass) which went into 31mm at 100m. Then adjusted the scope 3MoA to the right and 4.5MoA down from where I'd boresighted it. I shot this group with the muzzle brake on for my brother's education.

Then shot four five-round groups with the 80gn ELD-M on AR2206H at 22.5gn, 23.0gn, 23.5gn and 24.0gn. I set them with 10-thou jump (COAL 2.378") and they were still too long for the mag so I fed them singly. The bullet is 1.277", or 5.7 calibers long and seated .660" into the case - compressing the powder by about 12mm.
The 22.5gn went into 32mm (39mm low and 16mm to the left of the 52gn zero) with two consecutive rounds touching.
The 23.0gn did 37mm with a flier, a group of four fell into 17mm (38mm low and 5mm to the right).
The 23.5gn did 27mm also with a flier, four into a line of 18mm by 4mm vertical spread (23mm low and 13mm to the right).
And 24.0gn did 47mm with no cluster at all - the closest pairs were 19mm and 24mm (39mm low and 17mm to the right).

24gn is ADI's listed max and I didn't load higher as I was concerned about the case volume raising pressures - it took noticeable ram pressure to seat the 24gn loads - but I got no pressure signs at all so I'll make some 24.5gn and 25gn loads to test. But it looks so far that 23.5gn is where I need to tune it.

Brass is once-fired Tikka factory, but I bought it privately so no guarantee how many times it's been loaded. It was a batch of 450 cases in seventeen different head stamps so I'm guessing he just picked it up at a range.
I neck-sized it all then fed it through the rifle with only two cases refusing to chamber due to small shoulder dents.
Then I trimmed them all to 1.755", reamed the pockets and flash holes for consistency, and used
Remington 7-1/2 primers. As usual, I didn't clean the brass.

[bigfellascott]

No pics?

[Cooper]

So I guessing it has a 1in 8 twist if your shooting 80gr projectiles. will be interested to see how it goes. What's the barrel lenght. And why the muzzle break? Not knocking it. It pays to try different things.

[marksman]

so how did the bore go, did it fowl much?
the new rugers I've seen have been real shooters
thanks for sharing

[Wm.Traynor]

Just realised that you are going to use 80gn pills. Coincidentally, I used them with the same powder, years ago. When testing, increments were in two tenths of a grain. Two more tenths was all it took to send pressure too high. At two tenths below the "too-high" charge, the elevation at 1000 yards was very good. I was using Sierra and something else but they were ornery BT pills, not ELD.

Edit. Cases were sorted into batches. Same increments as the powder.

YMMV and very good luck mate

[bladeracer]

No pics?

Sorry, I didn't take many pics
We were shooting different calibers on the same targets as we could tell the groups apart due to the size of the holes, then going down and patching them out.
I didn't shoot any more .223 today but I loaded 50rds of the 80gn ELD-M on 23.5gns of AR2206H for further accuracy testing. My brother decided he wants to head home tomorrow so we concentrated on his .243 and his Anschutz .22. If not for some pesky fliers the Annie would've shot some really nice sub-MoA 100m groups. Our best groups we both managed to fling a flier high to the left!
I put a peep sight on the Norinco JW21 so I zeroed that and we shot some rimfire silhouettes at 100m.
And I put a smaller aperture in the No.4 M1* so I zeroed that as well.

[bladeracer]

So I guessing it has a 1in 8 twist if your shooting 80gr projectiles. will be interested to see how it goes. What's the barrel lenght. And why the muzzle break? Not knocking it. It pays to try different things.

Yep, 8" twist, 22" barrel.
I just wanted to show my brother the difference in noise and blast with and without a brake
I knew the 80's would be okay with eight-inch twist but I'd like to try some 80gn and 90gn Sierra Matchkings just to see how they go. Not having the polymer tip makes for a shorter bullet of the same weight.

[bladeracer]

so how did the bore go, did it fowl much?
the new rugers I've seen have been real shooters
thanks for sharing

No obvious fouling so far.
I sized the necks and measured the brass. Only the 24.0gn loads show any stretch - about four-thou longer than the rest.
I'm impressed with the Ruger Americans too
I have the .204, .223 and .243 Predators, the 7mm-08 Standard, and the Compact and Target models in .22LR. My brother has started with the RAR .243 Predator and as we're loading it right down to .22WMR levels he's finding it very versatile indeed with the 58gn VMax and 87gn VMax so far. I have a lot of different bullets and had hoped to try the 108gn ELD-M's today but didn't manage it.

[bladeracer]

Just realised that you are going to use 80gn pills. Coincidentally, I used them with the same powder, years ago. When testing, increments were in two tenths of a grain. Two more tenths was all it took to send pressure too high. At two tenths below the "too-high" charge, the elevation at 1000 yards was very good. I was using Sierra and something else but they were ornery BT pills, not ELD.

Edit. Cases were sorted into batches. Same increments as the powder.

YMMV and very good luck mate

I had planned to load test batches in 0.3gn increments but changed plans to fit the brass I'm using - I only have 50 Tikka cases which I'm guessing is the premium brass of my mix. The difference in case stretch and accuracy from 23.5gn to 24.0gns is significant, although without any major pressure signs. I'm happy to play with the 80's on 23.5gn of AR2206H for now, I don't have any need to push the rifle or the brass hard.

I have mostly PPU brass (160 of them) and I'm prepping them for testing the 52gn bullets swaged from .22LR brass. With a single load of 26gn of AR2206H just for some foulers, to put the first five bullets through the barrel in essentially 1MoA shows promise. They might also be a good low-velocity bullet due to the thin jacket - I didn't recover anything that looks like brass from my bullet stop so they must break-up brilliantly.

[marksman]

thats a nice collection bladeracer, you are really looking at having some fun
also I know an old bloke (no pun intended Oldbloke ) who made his own 22 cal projies from 22 cases that were that good he competed with them
if I didn't have too many hobbies already I would get into it myself

[bladeracer]

thats a nice collection bladeracer, you are really looking at having some fun
also I know an old bloke (no pun intended Oldbloke ) who made his own 22 cal projies from 22 cases that were that good he competed with them
if I didn't have too many hobbies already I would get into it myself

I still want the RAR's in 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor, 300BLK, .308, .450 Bushmaster and 7.62x39. The .450 uses a one-off mag and the '39 uses Mini-30 mags so I don't think either will work with AICS mags in the MDT chassis.

I didn't make these bullets, although I have considered making dies for doing so. These were made by a forum member but I haven't asked whether he wants to be flooded with orders. I bought 1000 off him as I want to do extensive testing, particularly at very low velocities. The very thin jacket should allow it to open up at low speeds.

[sungazer]

How does the saying go. "I going to need a bigger" boat/safe

[bladeracer]

I bought 450 "once fired" pieces of .223 brass off a Facebook seller for $50 posted. I thought that was too cheap and sent him $70 instead.

Some of it does appear to be once-fired, but a lot does not.
There are seventeen head stamps in the mix so most likely scavenged from a range.
161 of PPU 223
66 of FC 223
56 of Win 223
52 of Tikka 223
42 of RP 223
21 of OSA 223
8 of CBC 223
3 of FC 15 223
2 of PRC 223
1 of ADI 223
1 of WW Super 223
1 of Rem UMC 223
The remaining 29 are 5.56mm of "ADI 14", "ADI 12", "S&B 14", "S&B 12" and one NATO case.
For my $70 I figure I got 160 PPU, 65 Federal and 50 Tikka, so I'm not complaining.

But the PPU had two different primers (brass and silver), about 70 had been deprimed and neck-sized already, and a handful appear to have been tumbled.
The Tikka I'd guess all came from one rifle as they all chamber perfectly with just a neck-size (except two that are dented).
After neck-sizing the PPU , I have 71 that chamber fine, 38 that will chamber if I force them, 49 that will not chamber at all, and three that jammed themselves in the chamber very early indeed and had to be pushed out with a rod. But I have enough to start my experimenting with the swaged bullets. So I prepped it by neck-sizing, trimming to 1.755", chamfering the inside and outside of the mouth and the primer pocket, cutting the pockets all to the same depth and uniforming the flash holes.

First I want to determine minimum terminal velocity required to deform them so I'm starting with Trailboss.
ADI list a Trailboss load of 4.0gn behind a 53gn bullet at 1040fps. The PPU case holds 10gn to the mouth and 9.8gn to the base of the neck so 4.0gn is about a 40% load. I hope to test shoot these today.

[bladeracer]

How does the saying go. "I going to need a bigger" boat/safe

I installed another one the day before yesterday

[sungazer]

If you see another deal like that on cases could you let me know if your not going to buy them for that price it is probably worth a gamble/try. The few different types will give you a bit of an indication over time whose is better.

[bladeracer]

If you see another deal like that on cases could you let me know if your not going to buy them for that price it is probably worth a gamble/try. The few different types will give you a bit of an indication over time whose is better.

Are you a member of Aussie Reloading Talk & Trade on Facebook?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1442388839331951/?fref=nf

I also picked up 200 Hornady .204 cases for $100 on there that definitely are once-fired in one rifle - I got them off a fox shooter. I wasn't actually chasing any but I saw that he was ten minutes away so thought I'd grab it.

[sungazer]

Not a big FB user I sent in a request.

[bladeracer]

First I want to determine minimum terminal velocity required to deform them so I'm starting with Trailboss.
ADI list a Trailboss load of 4.0gn behind a 53gn bullet at 1040fps. The PPU case holds 10gn to the mouth and 9.8gn to the base of the neck so 4.0gn is about a 40% load. I hope to test shoot these today.

Tried these just now, muzzle velocity 1180fps but virtually no deformation at 100m. At 100m velocity should be around 1000fps. Five shot group around 75mm fell 450mm low from the 80gn ELD-M zero.

[Tripod]

I didn't make these bullets, although I have considered making dies for doing so. These were made by a forum member but I haven't asked whether he wants to be flooded with orders. I bought 1000 off him as I want to do extensive testing, particularly at very low velocities. The very thin jacket should allow it to open up at low speeds.

I am said member and I am now doing these projectile in tins of 500 for $100 posted. They are shooting very well on paper but their intended purpose is small furry pest animals and at this they excel at doing spectacular damage.

[Gamerancher]

What weight are they?

[Tripod]

What weight are they?

At the moment I am just doing a big run of 52gr, Later I may do a run of 45gr with a large flat point to suit rifles with tube magazines and a run of 40gr to suit Hornets.

[bladeracer]

What weight are they?

At the moment I am just doing a big run of 52gr, Later I may do a run of 45gr with a large flat point to suit rifles with tube magazines and a run of 40gr to suit Hornets.

Is the 40gr for the Hornet .223"?

[Tripod]

What weight are they?

At the moment I am just doing a big run of 52gr, Later I may do a run of 45gr with a large flat point to suit rifles with tube magazines and a run of 40gr to suit Hornets.

Is the 40gr for the Hornet .223"?

What size do you want it to be?

[bladeracer]

Is the 40gr for the Hornet .223"?

What size do you want it to be?[/quote]

I would prefer .224" even in a .223" bore.

[Tripod]

Is the 40gr for the Hornet .223"?

What size do you want it to be?

I would prefer .224" even in a .223" bore.[/quote]
Easy, I will let you know when I am doing them.

[bladeracer]

I am said member and I am now doing these projectile in tins of 500 for $100 posted. They are shooting very well on paper but their intended purpose is small furry pest animals and at this they excel at doing spectacular damage.

Have you tried these 52gn bullets in different twist rates and cartridges?
Do they have an accuracy "sweet spot" of velocity or twist rate?
The rain made me put off a test shoot today, tomorrow it'll probably be windy instead
Since I'm working up loads for several bullets all together it should let me compare these with others, particularly the twelve-cent 55gn RooMax.

The five I fired the other day certainly exploded hitting my rubber stop. I recovered everything right down to the powdered lead particles. Two were mulched up in a mess of lead and pieces of brass unlike any bullet I've seen before. Otherwise all I found were a few small brass fragments and powdered lead. Terminal velocity would've been around 2750fps. The photo was just after I spilled Trailboss across my bench

[Tripod]

I am said member and I am now doing these projectile in tins of 500 for $100 posted. They are shooting very well on paper but their intended purpose is small furry pest animals and at this they excel at doing spectacular damage.

Have you tried these 52gn bullets in different twist rates and cartridges?
Do they have an accuracy "sweet spot" of velocity or twist rate?
The rain made me put off a test shoot today, tomorrow it'll probably be windy instead
Since I'm working up loads for several bullets all together it should let me compare these with others, particularly the twelve-cent 55gn RooMax.

The five I fired the other day certainly exploded hitting my rubber stop. I recovered everything right down to the powdered lead particles. Two were mulched up in a mess of lead and pieces of brass unlike any bullet I've seen before. Otherwise all I found were a few small brass fragments and powdered lead. Terminal velocity would've been around 2750fps. The photo was just after I spilled Trailboss across my bench

I have tried them in all the rifles I have and I will be trying them in my new 221 Fireball that I picked up yesterday None of the different twist rates seem to make a difference but I don't have any really fast twist rates like 1 in 8. I have used them in 22-250 with a 1 in 12 twist and loaded to max and they explode Kookaburra's quite nicely. (We are allowed to shoot Kookaburra's in Tassie as they are an introduced pest down here)
I don't get to do much target shooting as where we are is very prone to wind but what groups I have shot with very limited development have equaled all of the commercial projectiles I have ever tried.
Where these projectiles excel is as you have discovered they fragment and do maximum damage on small game resulting in less crawl offs or finishing shots.

[bladeracer]

I have tried them in all the rifles I have and I will be trying them in my new 221 Fireball that I picked up yesterday None of the different twist rates seem to make a difference but I don't have any really fast twist rates like 1 in 8. I have used them in 22-250 with a 1 in 12 twist and loaded to max and they explode Kookaburra's quite nicely. (We are allowed to shoot Kookaburra's in Tassie as they are an introduced pest down here)
I don't get to do much target shooting as where we are is very prone to wind but what groups I have shot with very limited development have equaled all of the commercial projectiles I have ever tried.
Where these projectiles excel is as you have discovered they fragment and do maximum damage on small game resulting in less crawl offs or finishing shots.

Thanks Tripod
I was right about the wind, it's blowing a gale today.
My Ruger is 8-inch twist so I'll let you know what I find.
I've loaded up 200rds of your 52gn, 55gn RooMax, 35gn NTX and the 80gn ELD-M, but I want to wait for perfect wind to test them properly. I'm looking for optimum accuracy to begin with.

[Gamerancher]

Let us know how they go in the Fireball Tripod. That's what I was looking at, running them through mine.

[bladeracer]

I was right about the wind, it's blowing a gale today.
My Ruger is 8-inch twist so I'll let you know what I find.
I've loaded up 200rds of your 52gn, 55gn RooMax, 35gn NTX and the 80gn ELD-M, but I want to wait for perfect wind to test them properly. I'm looking for optimum accuracy to begin with.

Although it wasn't as still as I'd like I was too sore to do much else so I did some shooting with a wind from about two-o'clock but gusty. My chronograph seems to be stuffed so I don't have any velocities. My loads generally run fairly in line with ADI figures though so I can estimate them.

Unfortunately, I think my 8"-twist is too much for the thin jackets. I fired fifty full-power loads and twelve of them disappeared between the muzzle and the target. Those that reached the target showed reasonable accuracy.
I shot two five-round groups at 100m of 25.5gn, 26.0gn, 26.5gn and 27.0gn of AR2206H.
25.5gn (~3220fps) I lost one bullet but managed a 38mm group of five.
26.0gn (~3270fps) I lost two bullets and got a five-shot group of 46.5mm and a three-shot group of 45mm.
26.5gn (~3325fps) I lost three bullets and got a five-shot group of 40.5mm - the other group of two shots were almost touching each other.
27.0gn (~3380fps) I lost five bullets and got a three-shot group of 36mm.

I fired another two five-shot groups at 27.0gn and lost one bullet, getting a five-shot group of 47mm with neck-sized brass and a 33mm four-shot group with FLS brass. I''m going to shoot these cases over and over to see if there's a difference in case life between FLS and neck-sizing.

So a fairly consistent 1.25MoA to 1.5MoA (for those that don't come apart at the muzzle) runs about the same as the 55gn RooMax and 35gn NTX (under today's conditions). I'll make up more loads working down from 25.5gn until all bullets start arriving intact, and then look for accuracy tuning.
The bullet has a pretty sharp bottom edge as I had three that folded one side of the neck during seating. A heavy chamfer can probably sort that though.

I shot the same loads with the 55gn RooMax, except I forgot to shoot the 27.0gn load.
25.5gn (~3220fps) first group of 58.5mm but possibly affected by the brass in the bore from the 52gn bullets. Then I managed a 38mm group.
26.0gn (~3270fps) gave groups of 40.5mm and 17mm.
26.5gn (~3325fps) gave me a group of 44.5mm - the second group I pulled one very badly but dropped four into 17.5mm.

I also shot the same loads with the 35gn NTX.
25.5gn (~3680fps) managed 36mm and 38mm groups.
26.0gn (~3750fps) two groups of 45mm.
26.5gn (~3820fps) groups of 29mm and 36mm.
27.0gn (~3890fps) groups of 37.5mm and 44mm.

And I shot ten loads of the 52gn bullet on 3.6gn of Trailboss. Definitely subsonic, about 480mm low, and roughly a 120mm group for five rounds at best. It was very windy at the time though which may have bothered such slow heavy bullets, but the holes were perfectly round. Bullets showed minor deformation of the points only.

Lastly I shot a three-shot group with the 80gn ELD-M on 23.5gn of AR2206H for a group of 30.5mm at 100m (15mm high), and then a 72mm group at 180m (standing against a tree) (55mm low). The long shot was a very windy shooting position with 60mm of drift. I was extremely impressed to put three rounds into 1.5MoA under those conditions.

Far from perfect conditions but a nice relaxing afternoon putting 136rds down range