First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

[Biggus63]

Just went through all of this recently and ended up with the HMR because it rides the wind better than the 22 mag, even then it's so windy where I am the HMR is borderline unusable most afternoons. If the wind isn't a big issue the 22 mag has a good deal more energy than the HMR, and the new 30 grain V-Max bullets are a nice compromise that helps the trajectory and drift out a bit.

What I'm really waiting on is for someone like CZ to chamber a rifle for the .17 WSM since the two offerings available, the Savage and the Ruger are undesirable for a number of reasons, but I've not seen the slightest hint of a new bolt WSM on the horizon from anyone, so it could be a long wait.

I don't really want to go to a centerfire because of sound and safety considerations. I don't really hunt as such, it's just fox control on my own relatively small property, and the WSM promises to be the perfect solution, twice the power of the HMR with ammo only 5 to 10 cents a round more. If the WSM takes off I reckon it will make the HMR obsolete. Until then I make do with my CZ 455 Varmint HMR.

[bladeracer]

Just went through all of this recently and ended up with the HMR because it rides the wind better than the 22 mag, even then it's so windy where I am the HMR is borderline unusable most afternoons. If the wind isn't a big issue the 22 mag has a good deal more energy than the HMR, and the new 30 grain V-Max bullets are a nice compromise that helps the trajectory and drift out a bit.

What I'm really waiting on is for someone like CZ to chamber a rifle for the .17 WSM since the two offerings available, the Savage and the Ruger are undesirable for a number of reasons, but I've not seen the slightest hint of a new bolt WSM on the horizon from anyone, so it could be a long wait.

I don't really want to go to a centerfire because of sound and safety considerations. I don't really hunt as such, it's just fox control on my own relatively small property, and the WSM promises to be the perfect solution, twice the power of the HMR with ammo only 5 to 10 cents a round more. If the WSM takes off I reckon it will make the HMR obsolete. Until then I make do with my CZ 455 Varmint HMR.

A member here had a .17WSM but swapped it for a .223 last year. I bought 350 empty WSM cases off him to put towards his .223.

[Biggus63]

A member here had a .17WSM but swapped it for a .223 last year. I bought 350 empty WSM cases off him to put towards his .223.[/quote]


Ok, I'll bite, what did you want with 350 empty rimfire cases?

[bladeracer]

Ok, I'll bite, what did you want with 350 empty rimfire cases?

I cut them in half and push a .243" jacketed bullet into the front half. Then I load them into 6.5x52mm Carcano and shoot them

[Tiger650]

22LR for sure, I have just commissioned a Ruger American Rimfire which is very accurate with various inexpensive ammo.
Be mindful that you must shoot a lot to become competent and then shoot regularly to maintain skill level.
The .22LR will have you practicing essential stuff like follow through etc, actual locktime with the 22 LR [brain breaks trigger to bullet exit from muzzle] is not super fast due to relatively low velocity.
The Ruger trigger is excellent IMO and easy to adjust.
My scope is the Nikon 2-7x32 rimfire on medium height mounts that I bought on fleabay ex China, they lapped in quiet quickly with a piece of 25mm bright bar and I think cost $25.
The Ruger I bought comes with Iron sights which remain in place in case the scope is ever damaged.
Voldemort [?] will sell you goofy s**t like a short barrel threaded thing without irons for cheap but I would not do that, some folks bring in s**t that will not sell overseas and there is a reason for slightly lower price, no other bugger wants it.
You would also need a Weaver scope mount for the Ruger, mine came from Midway Aust for not much money and fitted right on.
I reckon the rifle owes me about about $900 all up and is a quality piece of gear.

[LilTacker]

Another option is get a CZ455 special kit with the three barrels, 22lr, 17HMR & 22WMR
A couple of minutes to swap barrels and away you go.

[albat]

I have the cz 455 with all three barrels .22lr 22 mag and hummer best deal going around for a bit over a grand i got mine for $580 bucks at the 2015 shot show in fact i bought two of em cus it was such a good deal both have performed exceptionally with any barrel i put on them great starter combo

[JohnBoy]

I have the cz 455 with all three barrels .22lr 22 mag and hummer best deal going around for a bit over a grand i got mine for $580 bucks at the 2015 shot show in fact i bought two of em cus it was such a good deal both have performed exceptionally with any barrel i put on them great starter combo

Hmmm.. Now this sounds appealing! Do you have more details on this man?

Cheers
John

[LilTacker]

John have a look on the Winchester Australia website for a few more details.
I use a scope with resettable turrets which makes it easier to find your zero again when you change barrels.

[Cooper]

I have the cz 455 with all three barrels .22lr 22 mag and hummer best deal going around for a bit over a grand i got mine for $580 bucks at the 2015 shot show in fact i bought two of em cus it was such a good deal both have performed exceptionally with any barrel i put on them great starter combo

Hmmm.. Now this sounds appealing! Do you have more details on this man?

Cheers
John

Cheapest I've seen for the CZ455 (3 barrel set and cheap scope) is $899 at Clayton firearms in Victoria. So shop around

I have one and pretty happy with it. The 22 mag barrel isn't a great shooter compared to 22lr and 17hmr. But you still have option. I've done limited testing with the 22 mag barrel. The 17hmr is way more accurate in my opinion. The 22 is pretty equal to my CZ452 is accuracy stakes. Actually the cz455 22lr seems to prefer subsonic ammo. But like any 22 you just need to find what ammo it likes.

[sungazer]

There is no better first rifle that a 22LR. It has one of the lowest recoils and noise. it is cheap and can be highly accurate giving the user plenty of satisfaction. It is the best rifle for learning shooting techniques with. It enable you to be able to learn follow through, shoot with both eyes open if wanted. It is cheap enough to be able to practice and practice without worry of the barrel being burnt out. More importantly all these shooting techniques involve your muscles learning muscle memory. The 22LR enable you to do this.

Bladeracer I hope you dont mind me using you as an exa,ple but if you read the Active topic in which BR is practicing for a competition in April he is shooting approx 100 shots a day. In just the last few weeks his off hand shooting skills have improved and what is more important for him he can quantifiable see the improvement because he is shooting target and keeping score. "You cant improve what you don't measure" By the time that competition comes around the rifle will feel weightless in is hand it will be as part of him.

So cheap and plentiful ammo should be a real thing to consider so should places you can shoot the 22 being able to have quite rounds means it can be shot in places the other just couldn't.

Put all that into the mix and the 22LR comes out a clear winner.

[Tiger650]

There is no better first rifle that a 22LR. It has one of the lowest recoils and noise. it is cheap and can be highly accurate giving the user plenty of satisfaction. It is the best rifle for learning shooting techniques with. It enable you to be able to learn follow through, shoot with both eyes open if wanted. It is cheap enough to be able to practice and practice without worry of the barrel being burnt out. More importantly all these shooting techniques involve your muscles learning muscle memory. The 22LR enable you to do this.

Bladeracer I hope you dont mind me using you as an exa,ple but if you read the Active topic in which BR is practicing for a competition in April he is shooting approx 100 shots a day. In just the last few weeks his off hand shooting skills have improved and what is more important for him he can quantifiable see the improvement because he is shooting target and keeping score. "You cant improve what you don't measure" By the time that competition comes around the rifle will feel weightless in is hand it will be as part of him.

So cheap and plentiful ammo should be a real thing to consider so should places you can shoot the 22 being able to have quite rounds means it can be shot in places the other just couldn't.

Put all that into the mix and the 22LR comes out a clear winner.

Well said.

[bigfellascott]

22LR for sure, I have just commissioned a Ruger American Rimfire which is very accurate with various inexpensive ammo.
Be mindful that you must shoot a lot to become competent and then shoot regularly to maintain skill level.
The .22LR will have you practicing essential stuff like follow through etc, actual locktime with the 22 LR [brain breaks trigger to bullet exit from muzzle] is not super fast due to relatively low velocity.
The Ruger trigger is excellent IMO and easy to adjust.
My scope is the Nikon 2-7x32 rimfire on medium height mounts that I bought on fleabay ex China, they lapped in quiet quickly with a piece of 25mm bright bar and I think cost $25.
The Ruger I bought comes with Iron sights which remain in place in case the scope is ever damaged.
Voldemort [?] will sell you goofy s**t like a short barrel threaded thing without irons for cheap but I would not do that, some folks bring in s**t that will not sell overseas and there is a reason for slightly lower price, no other bugger wants it.
You would also need a Weaver scope mount for the Ruger, mine came from Midway Aust for not much money and fitted right on.
I reckon the rifle owes me about about $900 all up and is a quality piece of gear.

He wants to shoot foxes regularly so not a cal really suited for foxes - plenty of better options out there that can do the job better.

[AZZA'S HJ47]

Shot a few foxes with my 17hmr great caliber flat shooting and explosive on impact. Love the 17hmr house mate hated the thought of the hmr until he shot with it doesnt have one but always wants to borrow it.

[Oldbloke]

Wants to shoot foxes so 22mag

[JohnBoy]

Well - I think that 3 Barrel Combo is the way to go! Pretty much covers everything I have been talking about.

Thanks guys - Awesome info here. So now I need to put a scope on it.

Let's keep the thread rolling - Tell me your scope choices?

This thread will be an awesome resource for someone new to the field.

Cheers
John

[scoobs]

Bushnell rimfire 3-12×40 or 6-18x40 is what i will be doing

[Biggus63]

I put a Leupold Rimfire VX-2 3-9x33 EFR on my CZ 455 .17 HMR. It's not particularly cheap but it's top quality glass, it's small and light (for what it is), and it's very versatile. The eye relief at maximum magnification is pretty tight, but in practice not only do you get used to it but I tend only to use the highest magnification when I'm sighting in or firing from a fixed position from a bipod when you have the time to acquire an optimal eye position. In the field I wouldn't generally use more than 5 or 6x and it isn't an issue then.

Using the Leupold 11mm dovetail medium height rings it fits very snugly over the barrel while still allowing clearance for the bolt. *Note*:- CZ 455s have a very high bolt lift and any scope with a big eyepiece can foul the bolt and force the use of higher rings than is optimal. Others will suggest other choices, it all comes down to exactly what you want to do with the rifle.

You'll also be well advised to get a torque screwdriver if you're going to be doing regular barrel and scope changes.

[bladeracer]

He wants to shoot foxes regularly so not a cal really suited for foxes - plenty of better options out there that can do the job better.

I agree that lots of other options will kill foxes more effectively than the .22LR, but the .22 will do it effectively with proper shot placement. CCI Stinger is a good choice if you have a rifle that shoots it accurately.

We're moving the cows down to the other block today and I just spotted a big red fox sitting in the paddock across the road watching us

[sungazer]

The three barrel on the face of it sounds like a good proposition. However remember you get what you pay for. There are certainly times when you pay a lot more and are just paying for the name which can give you confidence in reliability, accuracy, fit and finish ect but at the other end There is a base price for a good piece of metal and a certain amount of labour. The magnum might be better for hitting foxes but you need to have good basic skills to do it properly. I am the first to admit I need to practice a lot more off hand shooting. I always try to take the easier option and have a rest of some type or go prone.
Just take it in steps like you do when learning anything.

[bladeracer]

Bushnell rimfire 3-12×40 or 6-18x40 is what i will be doing

I have the 4.5-18x40's with .223BDC reticles on all my rifles. They focus right back to 10m.

[bigfellascott]

Any decent 3-9x50 would suit that cals you're looking at.

[Oldbloke]

Any decent 3-9x50 would suit that cals you're looking at.

Yep, or. 3-9x40

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[Gwion]

Get both and then get a .22lr as well!

Hahahaha...
There are still undiscovered tribes in the heart if the Peruvian jungle who knew you were going to say that!

[Gwion]

Get a 22lr with a fixed 4x scope...

There is nothing better than pelting thousands of rounds at cans spaced out at random ranges in the paddock. Bracken stalks... golf balls...
Once you are sick of doing that, you can shoot straight.
Then get what ever else you want. A 223 and reloading gear is the logical next step.

If you go the 17hmr, bear in mind that any foliage between you and the target will severely effect effecacy. An example is a rabbit you can clearly see in a tussock of grass. I know of blokes who have given up their hmr due to foliage causing the bullet to expand before impact. Not something that worries the 22lr. Lead hollow points verus highly frangible jacketed bullets.
The hmr also needs more cleaning of copper fouling and in that tiny bore, cleaning is even less fun that it normally is.

[Gwion]

A 22lr also teaches you to stay well with in your shooting limits.

[Stix]

A 22lr also teaches you to stay well with in your shoiting limits.

Thats a great & very important point...!!
Most often lost with folk who dont have the patience to learn...

[Gamerancher]

Fella's, he's been shooting sporting clays for some years, I don't think he needs a lesson in how to shoot. He's new to rifles, not shooting.

[Gwion]

Shooting clays and shooting a rifle straight isn't exactly the same thing.

[Gamerancher]

Yeah I know that, not having a crack at you mate, but there is a lot of posts treating him as a total "newby". I think he has some idea.
I've seen a lot of shotgun shooters turn up to have a go at rifle silhouette and they do very well first time out. I put it down to them being used to shooting off-hand. Also, our targets stand still.