First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigfellascott » 17 Jan 2018, 8:10 am

Gwion wrote:Yeah, BFS. I agree a 22lr isn't quite what you want for foxes and i would also lean toward a centerfire. I just personally don't see the point of rimfire magnums.
I'd still go the 22lr until i had the catB for a 223rem or other CF. Just be content with bunnies and the odd close shot at old foxy until the CF arrives.
A 22lr you will always find a use for but once you have a CF and reloading gear, i can't see the point in paying 223rem prices for ammo in a rifle that might be fussy as hell to feed *like a friend of mine's is).
Just my take on it.


Cheers G, yep I'd definitely wait until the Cat B is sorted, gives a lot more flexibility than what the 22 can offer re the foxes. :drinks:
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by in2anity » 17 Jan 2018, 8:15 am

Gwion wrote:Yeah, BFS. I agree a 22lr isn't quite what you want for foxes and i would also lean toward a centerfire. I just personally don't see the point of rimfire magnums.
I'd still go the 22lr until i had the catB for a 223rem or other CF. Just be content with bunnies and the odd close shot at old foxy until the CF arrives.
A 22lr you will always find a use for but once you have a CF and reloading gear, i can't see the point in paying 223rem prices for ammo in a rifle that might be fussy as hell to feed *like a friend of mine's is).
Just my take on it.


And whilst one might speculate they will be shooting plenty of foxes, they are elusive characters indeed. You're lucky to even see a single fox in a knock-about rabbit hunt, let alone get a bead on one, let alone actually hit one! Especially for a newbie, it's quite ambitious to buy a magnum rimfire just to cover these rare edge cases.
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 23 Feb 2018, 7:24 pm

SO.... I finally have my rifle. I ended up buying the CZ combo and even found it for a good price with a scope.

I have started to zero it in and am happy with the results. I can now group within 7cm square at 50m unassisted using 22 Subs. :) My property is not overly large and the neighbours are close enough to get annoyed. LOL!

I need to get it in a rig so I can really zero it in, but so far so good!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Daddybang » 23 Feb 2018, 7:34 pm

Nice rifle!!! :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigfellascott » 23 Feb 2018, 7:51 pm

Enjoy mate, it should serve you well for many years.
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 23 Feb 2018, 8:00 pm

Thats excellent mate...happy for ya...!!!

Stick with the subsonic hollow points mate...
Try all you can get your hands on.

When you say unassisted do you mean off the shoulder & not off a rest...?
If so thats great...!!

If it helps, ive recently broken in a new CZ 452 in 22lr, & it took many hundreds of rounds (must be well over 500) to settle down & shoot consistantly...
So just be mindful sometimes a rimfire barrel may take a bit to bed in...
To aid in this, buy a brick of cheap std velocity ammo & buy your beer in cans...!!

Cheers
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 23 Feb 2018, 9:11 pm

Thanks all.

By unassisted I mean - yeah - off the rest. Crouching or on one knee.

This image was today simply resting on the bullbar of my farm truck at 70m. So far soo good! :) I will dig out the unassisted and take a pic.

I am going to head to a mates place to crack in the 22mag and 17hmr soon! Should be fun!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigrich » 23 Feb 2018, 9:47 pm

hey JB, you bought the cz "package" with the different changable barrels did ya ?
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 24 Feb 2018, 11:35 am

Yeah man I did. I haven't swapped out the barrels yet. Still dialling in the 22. Then I will do the others.

I like it. The Quality feels good - it shoots straight, and I have nothing else to compare it with LOL! So far so good though. It will do me., :)
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigrich » 24 Feb 2018, 5:24 pm

cz's are a real good thing, i have a 452 2E with the 12 groove 24 inch barrel, it shoots 3 shot10mm groups at 50 when everthing is right. including the nut behind the trigger. try as many different types of ammo as possible to see what groups best, but that could change after 500 rounds and the barrel "settles in". for my cz eley "sport" shoots great. cci 40 gr hp shot real well in my weihrauch 22 mag. ya got three rifles for the price of one so that should keep you busy for a while :thumbsup:
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 26 Feb 2018, 8:30 am

Hey Bigrich,

Yeah - That's what I liked about it. Watched some videos on how to swap the barrel etc, and the reviews were good, so I went with that. Plus, the price was right - so that's a good thing!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Oldbloke » 26 Feb 2018, 10:16 am

JohnBoy wrote:SO.... I finally have my rifle. I ended up buying the CZ combo and even found it for a good price with a scope.


Very nice. What's the scope?

And I agree with Gwion. Foxes only very close range, get yourself a 223, 222, or Hornet for foxes, along with reloading gear.
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigrich » 27 Feb 2018, 4:58 pm

22 hornet in a cz 527 would be a good fox gun. 223 is cheap and does everything, but i love the idea of a 222 rifle. i have a krico in 22 hornet and it made my 22 mag redundant . few more ideas for ya JB. actually, cz do a varmit 527 in 17 hornet. have heard they are insanely accurate, shoot flatter than 223 with a little more range. so many toys to choose from..... :thumbsup:
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 27 Feb 2018, 9:55 pm

Well... one less rabbit on the block.

The weather eased tonight so I thought I would just go for a walk around the property - one less rabbit! So at least I know it works. LOL!

My dog has a full belly! LOL!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 27 Feb 2018, 10:07 pm

Well done...

Where's the pics JB...?
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 27 Feb 2018, 10:11 pm

Used the Winchester subs. Nice and quiet.
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 27 Feb 2018, 10:17 pm

You should've had the rifle in the pic too...

And mate that bunny's a youngin'...too good for the dog mate...!!
Or you could've gone halves--cook up the back end & give the dog the front...
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 27 Feb 2018, 10:22 pm

Yeah - Realised I didn't put the rifle in the pics.

My mum use to make the best rabbit stew when I was kid. I just need to do some research on ensuring I know what I am looking for before I cook them up.

We have hundreds here, so not sure the supply is going to dry up anytime soon!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by in2anity » 28 Feb 2018, 12:58 pm

JohnBoy wrote:Yeah - Realised I didn't put the rifle in the pics.

My mum use to make the best rabbit stew when I was kid. I just need to do some research on ensuring I know what I am looking for before I cook them up.

We have hundreds here, so not sure the supply is going to dry up anytime soon!


I some research and blogged this subject a while back: https://hoffos.wordpress.com/2017/02/15 ... australia/
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 28 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

Thanks for that! Good info.

Cheers
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 28 Feb 2018, 4:26 pm

in2anity wrote:I some research and blogged this subject a while back: https://hoffos.wordpress.com/2017/02/15 ... australia/


So did you put this together in2...?
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by in2anity » 28 Feb 2018, 4:35 pm

Stix wrote:
in2anity wrote:I some research and blogged this subject a while back: https://hoffos.wordpress.com/2017/02/15 ... australia/


So did you put this together in2...?


Yep sure did
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 28 Feb 2018, 8:49 pm

Im keen to know more about your research mate...
Im keen to see, example pics & detailed descriptions of signs of clear signs of the calici virus...
Ive not been able to find much that more conclusive than "its hard to tell early signs of infection"...

Id like to quiz you more but dont want to hijack JohnBoy's thread...

And with all due respect, your blog just asks moral & thought provoking questions, rather than give the answers...
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bladeracer » 28 Feb 2018, 10:52 pm

Stix wrote:Im keen to know more about your research mate...
Im keen to see, example pics & detailed descriptions of signs of clear signs of the calici virus...
Ive not been able to find much that more conclusive than "its hard to tell early signs of infection"...

Id like to quiz you more but dont want to hijack JohnBoy's thread...

And with all due respect, your blog just asks moral & thought provoking questions, rather than give the answers...



We lost four of our meat breeders to calici last year, one of them to an unknown strain (Rose sent tissue samples in for testing). One of them died in my arms. We've found wild rabbits with similar symptoms.
They often get a snotty nose and a bit of a sneazy-cough, and then within a day or two they just fall over, start fitting, and stop breathing. By the time you start seeing early signs they're probably already past recovery.

We'd rather try to breed them through the calici virus than pump them full of vaccines. We lost the last two litters, nineteen all dead within the first day. We can't determine if it's related to calici though and the parents have been fine throughout. Next litter isn't far off so we'll see if we lose them again.
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by in2anity » 01 Mar 2018, 6:59 am

Stix wrote:And with all due respect, your blog just asks moral & thought provoking questions, rather than give the answers...


Besides the first paragraph did you actually read any of it? Before flaming Stix, go back and have a second look; all but the very first paragraph is information pulled straight out of white papers? LITERALLY 90% OF IT IS STRAIGHT FACTS, ZERO ANECDOTES. I'm so confused... Please, do me a favour and read the entire article (it's not long). Then you may find the answers that you seek.

Anyway this is not the place to be critiquing someone's blog; sorry OP didn't mean to hijack, I was just trying to point Johnboy in a direction (who wanted to know a bit more about eating rabbits)...
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by JohnBoy » 01 Mar 2018, 8:58 am

All good Stix. I read the your blog and it was good info for me. Have been doing a bit more reading etc, and so any info is good info right!

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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 01 Mar 2018, 4:28 pm

in2anity wrote:
Stix wrote:And with all due respect, your blog just asks moral & thought provoking questions, rather than give the answers...


Besides the first paragraph did you actually read any of it? Before flaming Stix, go back and have a second look; all but the very first paragraph is information pulled straight out of white papers? LITERALLY 90% OF IT IS STRAIGHT FACTS, ZERO ANECDOTES. I'm so confused... Please, do me a favour and read the entire article (it's not long). Then you may find the answers that you seek.

Anyway this is not the place to be critiquing someone's blog; sorry OP didn't mean to hijack, I was just trying to point Johnboy in a direction (who wanted to know a bit more about eating rabbits)...


Hey in2anity...mate maybe ive come across the wrong way, & if so i can assure you that insulting your efforts was not my intention mate...
I have read the entire thing 3 times before i posted above, so its too late for me to read it a second time as you suggest.
And your reply poses a rhitorical question for me, that being if 90% of the information is straight fact, what is the other 10%...?... (as i said, thats a rhitorical question)...

Im not being (dont mean to be) critical at all, infact i admire & applaud what you've done, im just after more indepth info...more specifically related to very early visible signs of calici virus...
So before accusing me of "flaming", maybe give consideration to making an effort to confirming if thats what im actually doing...

So--calici virus diagnosis--Sure, check out the organs, thats an obvious given, but if one is super dilligent, then one would never eat wild rabbit...(& if i were to be critical, it could be said that is the summary of your blog).

Whilst ive not searched absolutely exhaustively, i cannot find any more detailed info than what you have stated, & yet im sure its out there somewhere...

Maybe you can a answer for me if the following bunnies specifically have calici virus...(i dont expect you to have a doctorate in biology, but maybe/hopefully in your research you have seen & learned of the finer visual signs of early infection).

These are (were) seemingly perfectly healthy bunnies when picked up--nothing apparently wrong with fur, weight, eyes etc (that is from my nearly 40 yrs experience of shooting & dressing them out)...

This first pic--clean head shot bunny-pic taken 10 hrs after its passing...
2018-03-01 12.35.45.jpg
Rabbit #1
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This next bunny had its head removed from a 204 & has a shrapnel wound down the inside of neck that exited through shoulder...
2018-03-01 12.32.51.jpg
Rabbit#2 head shot.
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2018-03-01 12.33.09.jpg
Rabbit#2 shrapnel exit
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2018-03-01 12.33.32.jpg
Rabbit#2 shrapnel damage under front leg
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This next bunny also had its head removed by the 204..
2018-03-01 12.29.07.jpg
Healthy headshot bunny#3
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2018-03-01 12.30.21.jpg
Healthy head shot bunny #3
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Im keen to hear your thoughts on what you can see, & if any of your diagnosis is calici virus related...
Cheers :)
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bigrich » 01 Mar 2018, 4:58 pm

hey fellas, i bin told just stick your dressed wabbit in the freezer for at least seven days and it kills any viruses or parasites.so long as their eyes look healthy it's all good. i'm not tech savy, so don't know how to post it, but check out a rabbit recipe "tuscan rabbit with pancetta and rosemary" on a site called , delicious.com.au . i used a full glass of wine and a handfull of mushrooms as well with two rabbits in a roast tray and covered with alfoil to keep the moisture in while in the oven. turned out freakin' awsome. cheers and good eating JB
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by Stix » 01 Mar 2018, 5:39 pm

Sorry i missed yr post earlier blade...

Do you breed europeans...? Or have you purchased breeding stock...?

An unknown strain you say--thats a worry...
Is the place you sent samples to in the loop of ALL strains released...?
(If so, then its feasible to assume that the virus is already mutating beyond what is trackable)...

Snotty nose & sneazy cough are a little hard to diagnose through a scope at 120 + yds...
(I do however often see them fall over & go into a fit but its always due to bullet placement... :lol: )

Im keen to know how the next litter goes...
& also if you notice anything different about the dressed out meat of the infected ones.

It would be interesting to harvest/dressout infected rabbits at different stages of infection to see ALL visible signs on dressed carcasses...thats what scientists would have done, but finding pictorial evidence seems hard...!!
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Re: First rifle for new shooter - .17 WMR? 22 Mag?

Post by bladeracer » 01 Mar 2018, 6:06 pm

Stix wrote:Sorry i missed yr post earlier blade...

Do you breed europeans...? Or have you purchased breeding stock...?

An unknown strain you say--thats a worry...
Is the place you sent samples to in the loop of ALL strains released...?
(If so, then its feasible to assume that the virus is already mutating beyond what is trackable)...

Snotty nose & sneazy cough are a little hard to diagnose through a scope at 120 + yds...
(I do however often see them fall over & go into a fit but its always due to bullet placement... :lol: )

Im keen to know how the next litter goes...
& also if you notice anything different about the dressed out meat of the infected ones.

It would be interesting to harvest/dressout infected rabbits at different stages of infection to see ALL visible signs on dressed carcasses...thats what scientists would have done, but finding pictorial evidence seems hard...!!


Not European rabbits, think they might be from NZ originally but we bought them locally.
Significantly larger animals than any wild rabbits I've seen.

I'd have to check with Rose on where she sends samples to, but they know a lot about the calici viruses.
The last one they initially came back with a verdict of "not calici", but a few weeks later contacted Rose again to say that it was calici, but not a recognised strain.

The dead rabbit would likely have a very wet nose and face, but calici is very fast so the chances of shooting one between it being infected and when it dies reduces the likelyhood of coming across them I think. We have found some wild rabbits very close to death, but generally we find them after they've expired.

We're hopeful as well. Starting to worry that perhaps the mother has been infected in such a way that she is unaffected but making babies not viable. They are live-born, and are fully-formed, but all die within a few hours. It could be related to removal of the mother's blood supply.

Rose sends liver slices in for testing but we haven't seen any obvious abnormalities.

When I was a kid in SA we had a lot of myxo, it was very common, but we also had thousands of rabbits so we didn't need to eat any that showed signs of infection.
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