Is surface rust something to be worried about?

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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Oldbloke » 29 Jan 2018, 10:50 pm

juststarting wrote:OB, I am, Sweets and Hoppe's #9 Bench Rest Copper Solvent. I've always been under the impression that this stuff will mess your bore up, if left in it for extended periods of time (e.g. didn't patch it out fully, etc). Pretty sure it says so on Sweets bottle as well, not to leave it in the bore for more than (insert amount) of minutes Perhaps I got on board of some urban myth train and didn't question it enough.


OK, sweets say leave no longer than 20 minutes or the bore will be damaged soposidly due to the ammonia being corrosive.
Only problem is that ammonia is transported in bulk around the country daily in steel tankers. Has been for yonks.
I might run a little test tomorrow. I should have time.

PS. See last paragraph.
https://www.corrosionpedia.com/definiti ... -corrosion
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Stix » 29 Jan 2018, 11:51 pm

Im no expert here...but i prefer to clean all copper out every time i shoot...(doesnt always hapoen).

That comes from a building backround & seeing what copper does to steel--its very corrosive...
Ive seen bright (standard non-coated) nails dissolve in only months from being in contact with copper in certain form.

Ive got surface rust on blued & stainless barrels from not oiling for just a month or so during a moist winter, so im scared to think what copper could potentially do left for months...

Most of my most common shot rifles are new(ish) barrels that ive put through some form of break-in (shot/clean regime) & they dont really copper foul... (yet)...
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Gamerancher » 30 Jan 2018, 10:40 am

Dissimilar metals pose the risk of "galvanic corrosion". Some more so than others. Throw a copper washer in the bottom of an aluminium tinnie for a couple of months and see what happens. :o ( No, don't do this )The problem is exacerbated when an electrolytic medium is added to the mix, e.g moisture.
I've had a hole "eaten" through the side of an aluminium tipping trailer from a spot of copper concentrate that was missed and not cleaned out for a couple of months. Working in an underground copper mine really shows you how corrosive copper can be. We had to replace front ends of underground "boggers" that were unservicable due to corrosion eating through 60mm thick chassis structure. You'd cry if you saw the rust in a 3 year old Toyota chassis, we scrapped plenty of those too.
Yes, stainless rifle barrels ( or chrome moly ) should be more resistant than an alloy trailer/tinnie but the potential is still there. You still have two dissimilar metals. I've cleaned up plenty of second hand barrels to discover enough pitting under the copper to realize the potential risk.
In my experience, copper fouling is increased with higher velocities, longer bearing surfaces, high temperatures,"rough" bores and pure volume of shooting.
Best to get it out. :thumbsup:
Sweets 7.62 is my go to, applied with a nylon brush, patched out after 10 -15 minutes. Repeat until the blue stops coming out on the patches. Then use a powder solvent on a bronze brush, patch clean and repeat the whole process until both solvents produce clean patches. Due diligence must be applied when cleaning and the use of quality, correct size rods, bore guides, brushes and jags.( More good barrels have been stuffed by sloppy cleaning practices than anything else. )
Some might say this is over the top but I apply this method to my competition rifles and they give very good barrel life and accuracy. Now all I need to do is shoot better hey Strikey. :lol: :friends: :drinks:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Strikey » 30 Jan 2018, 11:26 am

brett1868 wrote:Jeebus...not the "Which copper solvent works best" conundrum..:)

I've tried them all and by far the best is the Robla Solo Mil, made by the same company that makes Ballistol. In theory if a barrel is "Broken in" properly then copper fouling should be minimal and I've no reason to disagree. I was using solid copper projectiles in the 50's and copper fouling was virtually a non issue and the bore scope confirmed this.

Now....let the barrel break in arguments begin :lol:

http://brtshooterssupply.com.au/products/robla-solo-mil-100.html

A word of advice though, don't get any ammonia based product on your fancy timber, scope or painted surfaces.



I had Robla Solo many years ago, have never used anything that cleans a barrel like that stuff but I thought it was discontinued, something to do with health reasons as that stuff had a strong odour I'd nearly prefer to sniff Sweets, perhaps the formula has been changed??

Gamerancher, you shoot alright sometimes :sarcasm: One thing I have noticed in regards to barrel cleaning is people who do a bit of comp. shooting all tend to have basically the same cleaning regime just a difference in products used, possibly keeping their firearms shooting way beyond their ability :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 30 Jan 2018, 11:30 am

Strikey wrote: I have noticed in regards to barrel cleaning is people who do a bit of comp. shooting all tend to have basically the same cleaning regime just a difference in products used, possibly keeping their firearms shooting way beyond their ability


For example?
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Gamerancher » 30 Jan 2018, 12:53 pm

I think he was having a go at himself, me and other "silly-wet" shooters he knows JS. :allegedly: :lol: S'all good mate. :drinks:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 30 Jan 2018, 12:58 pm

:problem:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Gamerancher » 30 Jan 2018, 1:12 pm

:unknown: As in most of our rifles are capable of shooting way better than we are. :thumbsup:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 30 Jan 2018, 1:15 pm

I meant, now that this thread is going... I'm interested what is a good cleaning regime.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Gamerancher » 30 Jan 2018, 1:30 pm

Okay fair enough. Mine is as above except that I start with the powder solvent , Hoppes' No.9 for me, then go to the Sweets. I'm usually fairly tight about cleaning every 20 shots during a competition. Hunting, well, I have put over 150 rounds through in a weekend before cleaning when doing cull work. It just means more work when I get home.
Weekend before last at Canberra, I shot an 80 shot match plus about 25 sighters through my 6.5 Creedmoor without cleaning. It was stinking hot and I noticed the accuracy drop off a fair bit during my last detail. I had gotten busy with target crew duties, ( we had to set our own ) and spotting for others and just kept missing the opportunity to clean at my regular interval. While I don't usually clean to spotless each time, I find a regular scrub and patch during the day at about the 20 round count works well in my barrels. ( All stainless ) By not doing my regular thing, I not only lost accuracy but had a hell of a job getting a sh!t load of copper out at the end of the day. Of coarse this is my experience with my gear, and, as in all things to do with shooting, your results and applications may vary.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by sungazer » 30 Jan 2018, 6:20 pm

I follow a very similar routine go after the powder fowling first then the copper and back to as clean as I can get it. It often means run a brass brush though then patch out then brush again then patch out. I have done a test with the sweets and have put it on both stainless and mild steel for over three days with regular top ups to keep it wet. Only on the mild steel could you barely see it had left a mark. So I am happy if I forget while watching TV and leave it one commercial break too many.
I would never clean during a days shooting though although that is not normally more than 36 shots. Then at the end of the day clean until clean. Its the best way to get repeatable results if you start from the same place each time.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 30 Jan 2018, 6:25 pm

I thought some copper (that copper equilibrium that someone mentioned) is good... Wouldn't regular cleaning with sweets remove that?

Instructions say, keep patching until patches come out clean, so in that case, Rahat entire copper equilibrium statement is false, which means breaking in the barrel is useless.

Discuss.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by sungazer » 30 Jan 2018, 6:37 pm

Nearly all the big custom barrel makers say that the barrel breaking per say is not really for most of the barrels benefit it is just for the throat portion that has been cut by your gunsmith. The barrel makers already lap there barrels but where the throat is cut it can be a bit rough so that is what you are really wearing in. Bit of copper can get caught on the rough patches and redeposited in other sections of the barrel.
The copper equilibrium theory is out there and followed by a few but not so much by those that shoot and look at accuracy every week.
There are also people, gunsmiths and gun manufactures that also say that breaking in a barrel has absolutely no short or long term effect. So its a bit up to yourself to read and then pick. In some short life span barrels the users certainly dont break them in much and they dot work up a load for "that gun" they tweak the load to give them the same MV as the last one normally.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Bushie » 30 Jan 2018, 8:57 pm

I learn so much every single time I make a new thread


Holy s**t :o :lol:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Gwion » 31 Jan 2018, 8:15 am

I am also a believer in the copper equalibrium theory. I want my rifle to the same every time so I'm not one for obsessive cleaning. I check my bores regularly and no sign of rust and i only clean when accuracy starts to drop off.
I am also a believer in breaking in my bore and neither my 223 or my 7-08 produce much in the way of copper on patches, even with a good soaking of sweets. I've been known to shoot 200 rounds between cleaning. Most shooters would be horrified by this.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by marksman » 31 Jan 2018, 3:01 pm

a custom barrel will always be better made/finished than a factory one and that the rougher finished barrel is IMO where the copper equilibrium theory is useful
I don't think its ok where pristine precision is needed but for the guy who wants to hit gongs no worries
it's not good to think copper in the barrel is a good thing, with the copper equilibrium the coppering supposedly slows down
sniper 101 has a utube vid on this, a fouler barrel is not a good thing and needs lapping or replacing,
at the moment I am trying to revive a good shooter but a dirty rotten fouler with Tubbs final finish projectiles
it will shoot 3 very precise accurate shots from clean and cold then sprays to and inch and a half at 120 :crazy:
so far I have put 7 of the Tubb projectiles down the bore but it takes that long to clean I cant shoot them all in a day :unknown:
I will let you guys know how it works out but if it doesn't it will be a re-barrel or sell it for heaps as it shoots 3 shots great :sarcasm:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Jan 2018, 5:08 pm

"or sell it for heaps as it shoots 3 shots great "

Well for some that would be OK. Typically I shoot 1 or 2 on a day trip.

Might seem strange for some, but if it doesn't have fur I don't pull the trigger.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by marksman » 31 Jan 2018, 6:02 pm

you want to buy it at a very premium price Oldbloke ;)

money talks :drinks:

let me know :thumbsup:

it could be yours :friends:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

you are right, I'm lucky to shoot more than three shots hunting
but for working a load up or tweaking its no good :thumbsup:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Oldbloke » 31 Jan 2018, 6:08 pm

No worries. I agree.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 31 Jan 2018, 8:35 pm

Oldbloke wrote:"or sell it for heaps as it shoots 3 shots great "

Well for some that would be OK. Typically I shoot 1 or 2 on a day trip.

Might seem strange for some, but if it doesn't have fur I don't pull the trigger.


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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by AusTac » 31 Jan 2018, 8:56 pm

juststarting wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:"or sell it for heaps as it shoots 3 shots great "

Well for some that would be OK. Typically I shoot 1 or 2 on a day trip.

Might seem strange for some, but if it doesn't have fur I don't pull the trigger.



Lies! I've seen you blast away with giddy smile!


:lol:

I clean and treat all my guns differently depending on what they're used for and how they're used the one that gets the cleanest is probably my u/o clay gun as that sits around for a while these days
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Bushie » 01 Feb 2018, 11:49 am

I'm the same the gun that gets looked after the most is the clay gun

Picked up some sweets 7.62 today and made the mistake of taking a big sniff of the stuff

Needless to say I no longer have nose hairs hahah


Also grabbed some gunslick pro copper clenz
Was on sale and says removes copper lead and powder without harsh chemicals

Thoughts?
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by marksman » 01 Feb 2018, 2:32 pm

there are better but your local dealer may not stock it
Brett's advise on product is good :thumbsup:
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Bushie » 02 Feb 2018, 8:14 pm

Right is before left is after

I've gone through with sweets 7.62 3 times letting it soak for 10 minutes each

I've ever tried using a copper brush to brush it off aswell

Am I doing something wrong or is this surface rust or corrosion from the copper??

This gun was purchased second hand and when I first bought it and took it down to clean it , it was FIIIILLLLTTTHYYYYY
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2018, 8:32 pm

It's copper.
More Sweets and leave it 30 minutes.
Scrub with a good nylon brush upon application and after soaking.
Don't use a bronze brush, the sweets attacks the bronze.

Your about halfway there.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 02 Feb 2018, 8:34 pm

Looks like copper. Sweets instructions says, keep patching out until patches stop coming out with blue streaks. 3 times doesn't sound like you've dissolved everything.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Bushie » 02 Feb 2018, 9:19 pm

I'll give it another crack tomorrow I was thinking about leaving it on longer but the bottle says no longer then 15 minutes

I figured it would attack the brush so I gave it a good wash and dry before I put it away

And JS I mean like 3 separate soaks and stuff but I guess this one must be built up a lot I'll keep at it and let you know how I go
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by juststarting » 02 Feb 2018, 9:39 pm

Tomorrow? Tomorrow?! Tomorrow!!! Scrub harder bitch, scrub it hard, now! Oh yeah!
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2018, 10:10 pm

Hi Bushie.
I had a rifle like that a couple of years ago...
I dont think copper had EVER been cleaned out of it.
It took me weeks & weeks of scrubbing, but i got there....i went through a good dozen brushes...!!!
In the end i used nylon brushes.
Try cleaning when you can shoot it...as in stuff the sweets down the tube when the barrel is warm & the copper is a bit softer.
If you're using bronze brush, every few times you clean, if you still get the blue on oatches, try scrubbing with a nylon/alloy brush...that way if you still get blue you know its copper & not the bronze brush.
Hope you got lotsa patch material...Big bicep is coming your way...!!!
Best of luck.
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Re: Is this something to be worried about?

Post by Stix » 02 Feb 2018, 10:12 pm

...and 10 mins is nothing...
I ended up leaving barrel full of sweets o/night on several occasions...but kept the barrel wet with solvent.
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