a question on safety

Bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action, self loading rifles and other miscellaneous longarms.

a question on safety

Post by marksman » 02 Feb 2018, 3:33 pm

just like to get you guys to give your own opinion on a question that has caused some conflict lately

when teaching a newcomer to firearm safety and safe handling
would you teach him/her how to use the safety of the firearm and where to point the muzzle or show a different way to carry the firearm safely
an example would be carrying a shotgun broken till you are going to take a shot at game instead of closed and using the safety
or using a half open bolt method like is taught at the firearm safety test when hunting?

my take is that you teach new guys how the manufacturer intended and teach to use the safety
why reinvent the wheel :unknown:
what do you think, I would appreciate your input :thumbsup:
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Re: a question on safety

Post by YoungBuck » 02 Feb 2018, 3:54 pm

I teach both but get them to keep the bolt up until ready to fire.
I've never seen a safety fail but at the end of the day the pin is still lined up with the primer. With a lifted bolt, it can not fire.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Lifesaride » 02 Feb 2018, 4:00 pm

I was taught how to operate a safety, but at the same time to never rely on it. I think safe handling practices should be the main area of focus.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Daddybang » 02 Feb 2018, 4:17 pm

Lifesaride wrote:I was taught how to operate a safety, but at the same time to never rely on it. I think safe handling practices should be the main area of focus.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by albat » 02 Feb 2018, 4:24 pm

Never Never point the muzzle at anything but your intended target dont use the saftey,load when you going to fire or bolt halfcock if noise is a concern or an imminet shot could occur
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Tripod » 02 Feb 2018, 4:37 pm

I never rely on a safety and it is very easy to get confused with safeties as some work in the forward position and some work in the reverse position. So newbies get taught to keep the action open.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by bladeracer » 02 Feb 2018, 4:44 pm

marksman wrote:just like to get you guys to give your own opinion on a question that has caused some conflict lately

when teaching a newcomer to firearm safety and safe handling
would you teach him/her how to use the safety of the firearm and where to point the muzzle or show a different way to carry the firearm safely
an example would be carrying a shotgun broken till you are going to take a shot at game instead of closed and using the safety
or using a half open bolt method like is taught at the firearm safety test when hunting?

my take is that you teach new guys how the manufacturer intended and teach to use the safety
why reinvent the wheel :unknown:
what do you think, I would appreciate your input :thumbsup:


I use the safety on semi-auto handguns but nothing else. If you're not ready to fire don't have a round in the chamber. If you are ready to fire then you don't need the safety. Handguns should always be ready to fire when holstered so safety on.

Teaching somebody though could go either way depending on the personality and awareness of the student.

As a side note, I dropped my RAR 7mm-08 and the spring wire bar that connects the safety to the action cammed over its travel limiter, jamming the safety on even though it was still in the off position. Popped the action out of the chassis, flicked the bar down and reassembled it.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by scoobs » 02 Feb 2018, 5:04 pm

ive always been taught from young and also in the military, never trust the safety.

i always have the bolt in the half open notch on my rifles and lever cracked open on the shotgun.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Jon79 » 02 Feb 2018, 5:20 pm

I had a mate who used use the safety on his .222, bumped it on the wind sill one night when trying to shoot a fox and it went off...that shouldn't have happened he said, the safety was on...........umm no it wasn't I told him there's your safety on the bloody floor! :shock:

I was always taught as a kid to never trust the safety and always treat a gun as if its loaded
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Re: a question on safety

Post by marksman » 02 Feb 2018, 5:27 pm

I probably should have noted that to use but never rely on a safety and be very muzzle conscious
I see it as a fundamental part of safe firearm handling but do know some guys who are very open about never using a safety
and I'm not talking at all about down at the range although you will find that is where you don't use a safety
and the new guys get a lot of there ideas from people they meet at clubs where I think this idea started maybe :unknown:

I wonder how you would go legally in a scenario that a new guy shooting a shotgun had his gun open flushed a rabbit and fumbled with the gun shooting his mate :unknown: would you recon it would be called improper use because that is not the way the manufacturer intended :unknown:

I have in the past taken a so called experienced hunter from a range out to get his first deer, he would not load the chamber because he thought it was safer from what he had learned from club shooting
so no worries we walked together about 3-5 meters apart me slightly in front, maybe by a meter, I put him in front of 5 deer that he never got to take the shot at because they heard him slowly close his bolt, when he did it my way finally after much frustration he shot his first deer, I know he wasn't a newbie but IMO he was new to hunting :allegedly: although that is not how he put it

I don't have a problem with the open style if in a group but when only maybe 2 of you stalking I don't see it as necessary
I use it with my children when we are sniping rabbits at distance and are waiting for them to come out or when I am culling roo's ect in the car
I also don't have a problem with the people who use this method but I think the new guys should be taught to use there safety catch :thumbsup:
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Re: a question on safety

Post by pete1 » 02 Feb 2018, 5:40 pm

Safety should be a last resort, safety's can fail, but a unloaded firearm can't.
And some older guns dont have safeties, i have a shotgun with no safety, either break it open or don't cock the hammer till you need to.
I know someone that shot there mate in the leg 40 years ago, said safety was on, they fell over on a hunt and as they hit the ground there hand swept over the safety and it discharged, rare thing to happen, but could be of been much worst.
And in the moment i find it easier and quicker to close the bolt rather then find a little safety, my personal 2 cents
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Archie » 02 Feb 2018, 5:56 pm

I haven't been shooting long enough to see as after fail, but I've failed a safety. As in, I thought it was on, I swear I checked it, and after hiking for an hour or so I put my rifle down to cross a fence and when I did glanced at it again and saw it was off, with a round in the chamber. I still don't know if I bumped it or I screwed up in the first place and it was never on.

Because if that I don't trust them anymore when I'm with other people. I pretty much trust myself to keep the muzzle pointed away from myself but if it's more than just me, my bolt is open and so is everyone else's or I'm leaving. That's so much harder to screw up, and people can see it.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Cooper » 02 Feb 2018, 6:02 pm

I only ever use the safety on my shotgun. I don't even really know why I do that? I will walk around with the shot gun with the action broken. If something could run out in front. I might close the close action and put the safety on. Otherwise if I see something I will just close the action and shoot.

With my centre fires and rimfires I just leave the bolt up. Usually I only have a round in the chamber if I plan on using it.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Bigjobss » 02 Feb 2018, 6:29 pm

Unloaded = safe
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Re: a question on safety

Post by juststarting » 02 Feb 2018, 7:16 pm

You kinda looking for a universal answer. There isn't one, I don't think. If you're operating a shotty, then broken. If you're plinking with people, bolt open, lever open, etc. If you're stalking, bolt closed on loaded chamber, safety on + ultra vigilance on sweeping and safe direction, etc. If you're behind someone, bolt closed on empty chamber + safe direction. There's just no universal answer. Safety for individual scenario.

If it's a completely new person at the range. Bolt open, mag out :)
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Re: a question on safety

Post by AusTac » 02 Feb 2018, 7:21 pm

I'm more of the an empty firearm is best wherever possible kind of thought, i always let the user know where the safety is and certainly give them the option, but always make sure they're first familiar with how to check if loaded and how to load/unload

" but the safety's on " or carrying the firearm in condition action with anything but a semi isn't great in my opinion in most circumstances ( just to cover my arse from a flaming :lol: )
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Oldbloke » 02 Feb 2018, 7:59 pm

juststarting wrote:You kinda looking for a universal answer. There isn't one, I don't think. If you're operating a shotty, then broken. If you're plinking with people, bolt open, lever open, etc. If you're stalking, bolt closed on loaded chamber, safety on + ultra vigilance on sweeping and safe direction, etc. If you're behind someone, bolt closed on empty chamber + safe direction. There's just no universal answer. Safety for individual scenario.

If it's a completely new person at the range. Bolt open, mag out :)


JS has summed it up. Teach them all Options. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Daddybang » 02 Feb 2018, 8:33 pm

What about a three stage saftey? I always carry the mod 70 with the saftey in the second stage. . :drinks:
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Supaduke » 02 Feb 2018, 8:54 pm

It depends , if travelling with rifle sling, no round n chamber. If in the hunting grounds , chambered and safety on. Same with shotguns, open if travelling, locked and loaded in the hunting area.

Trigger discipline and muzzle awareness is the key. Safeties are just a redundancy and should never be relied on. If the person cannot be trusted with trigger discipline and muzzle awareness they can't come hunting and need more range time. If they have no experience , they start at the range.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by marksman » 02 Feb 2018, 9:28 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
juststarting wrote:You kinda looking for a universal answer. There isn't one, I don't think. If you're operating a shotty, then broken. If you're plinking with people, bolt open, lever open, etc. If you're stalking, bolt closed on loaded chamber, safety on + ultra vigilance on sweeping and safe direction, etc. If you're behind someone, bolt closed on empty chamber + safe direction. There's just no universal answer. Safety for individual scenario.

If it's a completely new person at the range. Bolt open, mag out :)


JS has summed it up. Teach them all Options. There is more than one way to skin a cat.


totally agree there is no universal answer

and the half open bolt method came from New Zealand as we got our gun laws from there's
apparently it was because of the steep hilly terrain they hunt in and a hunting party usually being in single file so only the leader hunter would have a round in the chamber with the bolt of his 303 half open, this method was designed for the cock on close rifle such as the lee enfeild, Mauser 96 and rem 788
on the cock on close rifle the bolt is cocked when it is open so you would have a cocked bolt with a round connected, if you were doing this it would be better to just have an empty chamber

I forgot to say thanks everyone for your imput :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Gamerancher » 04 Feb 2018, 3:05 pm

By all means teach the use and function and flaws of the safety on firearms. Then try to go through all of the different types of safety. You'll need a lot of time. :lol:
As others have said, it all depends on circumstance. As a Mauser '98 shooter you'll know that trying to manipulate a "wing" safety under a low slung scope is a P.I.T.A, bolt up on a chambered round in those for me. Actually that is my standard practice with all of my bolt actions both when hunting alone or with others with known and trusted abilities.
Mind you, I'll only have a round chambered when I'm sure of a shot being imminent. I will walk with an empty chamber the rest of the time and trust my ability to quickly chamber a round in the event of surprised game, ( or hunter ). :o . The exception being if I'm hunting with my lever-guns, I do trust the Winchester "half-cock" safety.
Hunting with a "new" bloke, I make sure they have the bolt closed on an empty chamber. I'd rather they miss a shot than shoot me.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by bigfellascott » 04 Feb 2018, 6:36 pm

I taught my kids to just load a round when ready to shoot something, keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction (ie not at people etc) and to unload if the shot doesn't present, that way they should be safe.
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Re: a question on safety

Post by Stix » 05 Feb 2018, 4:40 am

As juststarting has mentioned, there are many scenario's...so there is no blanket answer.
Yes you need to teach everyone about the safety--thats part & parcel of knowing how the firearm works.!!
I always emphasise that if there is a live round in the chamber-irrelevant of safety catch-that the firearm is NOT safe...
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: a question on safety

Post by juststarting » 05 Feb 2018, 7:46 am

Stix wrote:I always emphasise that if there is a live round in the chamber-irrelevant of safety catch-that the firearm is NOT safe...


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