Thoughts on to build or buy out the box .223 target rifle

[Loveitorleave]

Ok first up a little detail for what it is I do... Only shoot at my local range which is 300m max, no hunting these days at all. Just starting to get back into it after having a 5 year break. Have owned cz452 American .22 beautiful rifle by the way, rem 700 varmint .308.
I do not shoot competition and do not wish to. Simply go to the range, try my best and go home.
Decided to go with the .223 caliber in my next rifle for a few different reasons, cost of ammo, 300m range ect. The one thing I cannot decide on is should I buy the ruger precision rifle in 223/5.56 nato which pretty much has nothing but great reviews, comes with two mags, 1-7 twist ect which can be bought on average for around $2000 or should I buy a used rem 700 varmint in 223, averaging $8-900 on usedguns website and plant it in a grayboe stock $725 and a timney trigger' $300. I'd have a gunsmith do it so with the cost of the used rem, new stock, trigger and paying him I'd be looking at around the same $$ as purchasing the out of the box rpr.
I certainly don't want or need 5-6g build, I'm an average shooter that enjoys challenging myself. Any opinions are appreciated thank you.

[SCJ429]

The stock Remington barrel will probably give you disappointing accuracy so you would be up for a new barrel. Get a second hand Ruger where the owner can prove the it is a shooter or consider a Tikka. My stock Tikka SV can shoot 80 grain Bergers just inside an inch at 300 metres if I do my bit.

[simmo]

Hey

I think both paths have merit but for I think you can get what you’re after from an off the shelf Varmint rifle made by one of the better companies. Taking on a project to make a Remington shoot well could cause a lot frustration.

I purchased a Tikka T3x .223 Varmint and that is an excellent rifle for what you are talking about. I can shoot 80gn Berger Fullbore projectile, handloaded, out to 600M with excellent MOA accuracy; managing wind is a different story....Based on your description above a quality off the shelf rifle will meet your needs and deliver plenty of enjoyment. Once you shoot a barrel out you can always put a new high end barrel on the action!

[SCJ429]

There you go, two votes for a Tikka, hopefully a few Ruger shooters will chime in with their experiences.

[sungazer]

What stock are the Tikkas in you are suggesting? I think the Tikka is a good strong and accurate action with an out of the box barrel. It is also a action that is worth re barreling in the future. Thats at about 3000-5000 rounds later.

[SCJ429]

Hi Sungazer, I have a SV and Simmo said he has a Varmint so they would both have the Tupperware stock. It obviously doesn't stop them shooting well.

[Gwion]

Tikka Sport.
Target rifle ready to go.

[Gwion]

Howa varmint barreled action in GRS stock....

[Gwion]

Omark 44 as a doner action and stock....

Just a few other suggestions.

[SCJ429]

The Tikka Sporter is like a mini Sako TRG. Some people don't like the orange laminate. There is a left handed one for sale at $1,500 or a new right handler for $1,850 from Magnum Sports.

[SHV]

tikka sporter +1
or even tikka T3 tac 223

consider the on sale prices currently, bargain for sure

[Rod_outbak]

My $2.50...

I have a Remington 700 Varmint Stainless Fluted, in .308, with a 26" barrel.
Bought it in 2012, had a shooting mate fit it into an MDT TAC-21 chassis, and it has a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 scope on it.
It has been an awesome rifle, and shoots distance very well.
I'm not the worlds best shot by any stretch, and yet I have a half-dozen 450+ metre kills from this rifle. If I practiced more, I'd easily add to that score.
This rifle/scope/chassis was the first to teach me that shooting beyond 150 metres wasnt in the realms of black magic and witchcraft...
HOWEVER, the shooting mates (who shoot competition distance regularly) started to move away from the Rem 700's around that time; they said that there was a lot of inconsistency in the accuracy and build quality of the Rem 700's from new.
[Mine was apparently one of the tightest-grouping any of them had encountered; I think I got really lucky]
When I first had anything to do with them, nearly all of this crew (6 in total) had Remington 700's.
A lot of these guys subsequently migrated to the Tikka T3, in various models, and I'm interested to note that most of them have kept their T3's in various calibres. Many have multiple rifles in this action.

I have a Tikka T3 Stainless Hunter fluted in 7mm-08(2014), and whilst we got off to a rocky start with accuracy, once we had sorted a better stock and scope, the rifle shoots like a dream. The wood stock on my T3 was crap; it will damage if you look at it, and the accuracy issues were resolved once we changed to a mates spare T3 synthetic Varmint stock, and put a Nightforce SHV scope onto it. This rifle nailed me a crow at 350 metres the other day; VERY satisfying.
One of the shooting mates recently bought a Tikka T3 TAC-1, and loves it to death. He has sent me a few amazing pictures of some of his groups with the rifle, and it looks to be a pearler for accuracy.

I have a Ruger Precision Rifle in .308(2017 - Gen2), and I find it okay, but bulky and heavy (not really issues for shooting targets, though). I'm still getting used to the short (20") barrel, and I think I'll need to upgrade the scope to get the best from this rifle. I'm also considering swapping the barrel out for a .260 Remington, in 24".
[Some of the barrel change is to experiment with the ability to change barrels myself, which the RPR offers.]
I walk most mornings and nights with the RPR, and do roughly 1.7kms each walk; looking for grasshoppers that might have come too close to the homestead.
[There are a LOT of dead grasshoppers around here...]

My shooting mate bought a RPR in .223 about 8 months back, and has shot [informal] competitions a few times with it. Each time, the RPR has performed beyond his expectations, and he wins the comp more often than not. He's really impressed with the rifle, and he's doing exactly what you are talking about.

It comes down to the fact that all three of these makes/models will do what you want, but there might be something of a price difference in how you achieve it for each model, and how quickly you'll be in a happy place with your rifle. I'd bet the Remington will end up costing you similar dollars to the other 2, to get it performing the same (unless you are extremely lucky), so it really comes down to what you prefer in your hand, and what time-frame you are talking.
From my mates experience, the RPR in .223 seemed to be the best performer straight out of the box, but many people have likely had other experiences.

[Just to add to what others have said, these shooting mates have also said they have seen many people migrate to the Howa 1500 actions for competitions, and are winning them with rifles that often cost nearly half what the Tikka will cost.]

Cheers,

Rod.

[SCJ429]

What sort of groups can you get from your 308 RPR and what does you mate get from his 223? What have you done to the trigger if anything?

[eddahenry]

From a new 2017 and old Pre 1990 Rem 700 shooter , if you decide to build on a 700 get a mid 1990s or before action , the new ones are plain terrible

[Rod_outbak]

I've not shot any target groups with my RPR, though when he was sighting it in for me, my mate was saying it was shooting under MOA with the 135gn HP OSA/Buffalo River factory ammo.
I dont shoot at a range, though I'm thinking of building one that has the shooting bench beside the house, for a heap of chrono work and sighting-in I'd like to do. I think I've figured out a direction where I shouldnt kill too many people...
[Benefits of living in a bachelors homestead; no-one to whinge about gunfire early on a Sunday morn...]

I'm not the worlds best shot by any stretch, and I'm sure this rifle can shoot far better than I'm capable of.
But I find I'm still struggling with successfully judging my POI on my mid-range shots (~200-350 metres).
I suspect its a combination of the scope, and also the fact that I struggle with judging my holdovers with the short barrel.
The Rem 700 with the 26" barrel seems to be much more predictable (for holdovers) to me; might be in part to do with the extra inertia in the longer barrel..
I'm yet to chrono the pair of them on some factory ammo to get accurate figures on what the shorter barrel is losing in MV; another project for the mid-term.
[Another addition to the frustration; the 8th year of drought has meant that 'grasshopper' targets are often hard to figure out distance, when there are no landmarks to use for ranging!]
I did install a Timney (curved) 2-stage trigger in my RPR, and wouldnt go back to the factory RPR trigger.
Not that the Ruger trigger was all that bad, but I much prefer the Timney. I got annoyed with that tang in the factory version, and I find the break point for the Timney a lot more predictable.
I also fitted a Seekins safety, which has a lever on each side (standard on the Gen 3).

I'm planning to upgrade the scope from the current 3.5-10x42 Nightforce SHV, to a 5-20x56 SHV. I intended to eventually move this smaller SHV across onto my Krico .243, as I prefer the reticle on the SHV, over the current Redfield 3-9x40 reticle.

As far as the mates RPR .223, I dont actually know what it groups, but it would have to be well under MOA for him to be happy with it. He was really impressed that it was shooting so well straight out of the box; something unusual in his experience.
One other thing that would interest me in a .223 RPR; the option to buy a .204 barrel, and experiment..

Cheers,

Rod.

[Gaznazdiak]

Just buy the ruger and go shooting, all the time piss farting around building a rifle is time you could spend shooting.
Better yet just buy a howa etc. And spend the change on reloading gear!

Excellent advice.
My Howa 1500 has a 24" 1:9 fluted bull barrel, you can now get 6.5CM in 26", and the XLR Element chassis is expensive but well worth the effort.
It's all black and very scary so the lace panty brigade will not like it though.

[simmo]

Hey

Following on from the question above, the stock I have my Tikka in is KRG W-3 chassis. I brought that because I got an exceptional deal from the seller. However it shoots very well in the factory stock with a Harris bipod or a Harris clone (cheap alternative).

I have done both; for the of the shelf target shooting with the .223 Varmint (out of the box awesomeness! With with factory stock and all) and brought a Tikka T3x lite with sporter barrel which I subsequently rebarrelled with med-Varmint 26” 1:8 Hardy barrel. A very, very good combo.

I switch both in and out of my KRG chassis pending the distance, match and or purpose of my shooting situation. I love the commonality of the Tikka action.

But that said a Howa is amazing value if your happy with a getting .223 with a 1:9 twist. Very versatile action action and platform and much lower price than the Tikka.

The other advantage is the Tikka Varmint will come in 1:8 twist off the shelf.

[sungazer]

I have a Howa 1500 and it is good value for the money. Its not the same quality of a Tikka though. I think if the OP is going to target shoot he needs something that will give him some precision. otherwise he will be out shooting the rifle and just frustrated that the bullets arnt going in the same place or where he is aiming.
I asked about the stocks as there are many options on a Tikka stock. the stock is also a consideration when target shooting.

[nightforcenxs]

i have a tikka t3 varmint in the mdt hs3 chassis in 308 and it shoots great i even shot the 300m fly and came 11th with it using a bipod and caldwell rear bag with ZMAX projectiles or try a howa couple of people were shooting the 6.5 creed in howa varmint and still holding good groups at 300m

[SCJ429]

Was that a 300 or 500 Fly shoot? What sized groups are you getting? What was your load for 168 grain ZMax?

[marksman]

IMO its totally up to you
I have seen the consistency from factory rifles that you expect from a custom
there are plenty of rifles out there that would make a good range plinker
your choice of 223 is a good one because of barrel life but it wont shoot in wind, I would look at a 6mm
and this is what I would advise you you think about for what you are going to do,
http://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=123474
complete package, everything there that will have the same barrel life as a 223, better accuracy, as cheap to feed, and will shoot in the wind
what I would look at anyway

I would try and get the price down a bit though

[nightforcenxs]

Was that a 300 or 500 Fly shoot? What sized groups are you getting? What was your load for 168 grain ZMax?

it was the 300 fly shoot i was getting just over 2 inch groups and the odd stray one from the wind being so bad on the day even the experienced shooters were getting caught out my groups suffered because i was shivering from being cold i also couldnt feel my finger on the trigger to well i had no wind flags out at all because i dont own any so i had to look at the flags 3 benches down and guess on wind change also i havnt done a load development yet so i ran the old load data that shot good in my brothers rifle which was .5 grain more then minimum charge of 2208 and 10 thou off lands only shot 300m 4 times now i know its alot of excuses but this was my real time experience on the day

[sungazer]

When you shoot comp there are no stray ones. You have to own every shot you send and make it count. perhaps not so much in bench rest (you can have another sighter mid string) but certainly F-Class typically 15min to shoot 2 sighters and 10 more for score, you can keep your sighters if you wish. Not finished in time shots not fired are counted as a 0. Puts the pressure on to take shots in conditions you may rather not shoot in.
As for the semi autos there was a comment on the board recently that the antis dont know the power that a bolt action has. That is very true even I shooting a 308 off a bipod can back on target and another round away in about 20 seconds. My rifle can get up to one target off due to recoil, if held tight I can mostly stay on target. Some guys with lower recoiling rifles off rests are sub 10 seconds and hitting the centre 1/3 moa and less at 600yrds plus.

[Loveitorleave]

Thanks everyone for the different views and advice, what a great forum!
I've gone with the tikka sporter from magnum sports for $1850. Just cannot beat it at that price.
Thank you again everyone, muchly appreciated.

[nightforcenxs]

Thanks everyone for the different views and advice, what a great forum!
I've gone with the tikka sporter from magnum sports for $1850. Just cannot beat it at that price.
Thank you again everyone, muchly appreciated.

thats awesome you wont be disappointed in the purchase.

also SCJ429 i went and measured my groups best group was 1.2 inches on the 300m flyshoot the rest were all average around 2 inches

[JimTom]

Good choice mate. You won’t be disappointed with the Tikka.

[SCJ429]

Well done, a 1.2 inch group at 300 is awesome and the rest at around two inches in excellent also. It is easy to get blown from one side of the target to the other. I have seen dedicated bench rifles shoot worse.
Funny to hear that you were cold in QLD, I was at the range last night and you could see your breath. It pays to be part of the target detail to see what the wind is doing downrange too.

[nightforcenxs]

Well done, a 1.2 inch group at 300 is awesome and the rest at around two inches in excellent also. It is easy to get blown from one side of the target to the other. I have seen dedicated bench rifles shoot worse.
Funny to hear that you were cold in QLD, I was at the range last night and you could see your breath. It pays to be part of the target detail to see what the wind is doing downrange too.

yer on one or two of the targets i held centre and didnt see the wind change and it went 4 inches to the left on me.. and about being cold in qld i havnt bothered to get a new jumper so my old one is kinda thin plus i was under the concrete building at belmont was ment to be 8 degrees colder under there but ill prepare better next time

[Gwion]

Thanks everyone for the different views and advice, what a great forum!
I've gone with the tikka sporter from magnum sports for $1850. Just cannot beat it at that price.
Thank you again everyone, muchly appreciated.

Nice one mate.
If you get a chance, take some detailed pics and write up your impressions and a bit of a range report. It's good to have first hand info available on various firearms on the forum.