interchangability of dies?

[deadkitty]

This may sound silly, but can anyone answer the following two questions, firstly , can I use a different brand of seating die in my Lee press?, the reason I ask is the current one seems unreliable and I'm thinking about buying one with a built in micrometer type set up. The second question is which manufacturers make bullet seating dies with reliable adjustments ... I think I saw an RBS on youtube somewhere... Thanks and Cheers

[bladeracer]

This may sound silly, but can anyone answer the following two questions, firstly , can I use a different brand of seating die in my Lee press?, the reason I ask is the current one seems unreliable and I'm thinking about buying one with a built in micrometer type set up. The second question is which manufacturers make bullet seating dies with reliable adjustments ... I think I saw an RBS on youtube somewhere... Thanks and Cheers

Any die with the 7/8" thread should work just fine.
Depends on what you mean by unreliable.
Measuring overall cartridge length is not perfect to begin with if you are trying to seat bullets at a consistent jump to the lands.
For consistency you need to measure the length at the ogive where it meets the lands rather than the variable point of the bullet.
You also need to monitor your throat erosion and keep decreasing your seating depth to suit - chasing the lands.

[Gwion]

1/ get yourself a "bullet comparator" to measure length to ogive. As above, it is the consistency of the ogive from the lands of the rifling that counts.
The comparators are pretty cheap.

2/ Yes. As above, as long as the threads match you can use other brand dies in your press.
Redding, Forster & RCBS are the immediate brands that come to mind for micrometer dies. There are some expensive 'custom' brands that I found when searching for die makers but I'd have to look them up again.

Cheapest first step is to get a comparator to check consistency. Also check technique. Is everything set up well? Is every seating stroke exactly the same?

For hunting & varminting you should be able to load great ammo without a micrometer die. I'm starting to look at them for my 7-08 but that is because I am shooting targets at 600yds and trying to tune my load down below the 0.4moa it already shoots with basic reloading gear and attention to detail.

Did a brief load test group at 500yds earlier in the year and put 5 rounds into about 45mm. That was quick shooting. Not trying for bull, just checking group size in a good patch of wind. So the rifle and load shoot better than I can read wind!
Just an example of what can be achieved with basic gear and good practices. My stuff is RCBS.

[deadkitty]

Thank you gentelmen, firstly to bladeracer, by unreliable I mean that despite trimming all the cases to the exact same length, sometime my seating die will seat several of the same batch of bullets differently..... I pulled it apart, cleaned it, added a little wd40 and reasembled it but the problem occurs again...and again. Throat erosion shouldn't be a problem, I don't do hot loads and the rifle has about 700 rounds through it.
Gwion thanks for that, I'll buy one the next time I'm in town, gee nice shooting at 500yds!. Thanks and cheers

[bladeracer]

Thank you gentelmen, firstly to bladeracer, by unreliable I mean that despite trimming all the cases to the exact same length, sometime my seating die will seat several of the same batch of bullets differently..... I pulled it apart, cleaned it, added a little wd40 and reasembled it but the problem occurs again...and again. Throat erosion shouldn't be a problem, I don't do hot loads and the rifle has about 700 rounds through it.
Gwion thanks for that, I'll buy one the next time I'm in town, gee nice shooting at 500yds!. Thanks and cheers

Without seeing them I can't tell you what the problem might be.
What do you mean by "differently", do you mean different overall lengths when measured to the point of the bullet?
Depending on the shape of the bullet that's not particularly abnormal, the seating die is not seating at the point of the bullet, it's gripping the bullet somewhere along the ogive. Unless you have very high-quality bullets the curve of the bullet is probably not identical so there will be some variation in overall cartridge length if you then measure them to the tip.
If you remove the seating pin from the die, put it on your completed cartridges and measure their "overall" length to the seating stem you should find they're all identical.

Have you actually measured you throat erosion? My .204 grew by .007" within 460 rounds from new.

[Gwion]

DK. How are you setting up your die?

I set mine up with the ram extended. Screw the die in so it touches the cartridge holder, lower the ram, give the die another 1/2 turn, re-extend the ram; you should come up hard against the die and have just an inch or so left in the handle action which will lock out when pushed down [if that makes sense?]; then lock the die in with the ram still extended and adjust your seating stem to a dummy round.

I do this so that i know that every stroke of the ram is the same because i feel that one inch of final lock. I always try to find a technical fix before spending more money.

Re: the test at 500yds. If you're not actually trying to hit something, testing at 500 in a steady patch of wind is the same as testing at 100yds, its just all about letting each shot go the same. If you can shoot a tight group at 100yds and the wind is steady, it's no more difficult to shoot a good group at 500yds. Hitting the bull in varying wind is a WHOLE other matter!
I was testing to see if there was any significant elevation variation in the load, shot to shot, which is almost impossible to tell at 100. Seemed to be shooting pretty good which confirms what the chrony told me previously.

I needed to test this because my shots where going pretty wild during my second strings and i wasn't happy with the way i was shooting. Had to make sure it wasn't the rifle or ammo. Nope... just me not being able to read the wind and pick my shot well enough!!!

[deadkitty]

Yep followed the instructions regarding set up, total bullet length is rarely the same.....
" by "differently", do you mean different overall lengths when measured to the point of the bullet?"...yes for the same bullet, in this case 50gr Zmax.
I might try the dummy round idea, Thanks again

[Gwion]

So, are you saying you get varying results from the same session or from session to session???

Definitely set yourself a dummy round at your desired length 'to the ogive'.

[bladeracer]

Yep followed the instructions regarding set up, total bullet length is rarely the same.....
" by "differently", do you mean different overall lengths when measured to the point of the bullet?"...yes for the same bullet, in this case 50gr Zmax.
I might try the dummy round idea, Thanks again

How much difference are you seeing?

[Press]

Re: the test at 500yds. If you're not actually trying to hit something, testing at 500 in a steady patch of wind is the same as testing at 100yds, its just all about letting each shot go the same. If you can shoot a tight group at 100yds and the wind is steady, it's no more difficult to shoot a good group at 500yds.

Hmm, I wouldn't agree with that. I get your point but minor shooter error is multiplied at 500 yards. If you're "testing" anything you need consistency for accurate results and shooting closer at 100 or even 200 yards reduces the impact shooter error has so you can more clearly see the results of just the load.

[Gwion]

Sure... but shooting a good tight group at 100 is not going to show up variation in velocity, which show up as significant changes in elevation.

The comment was prefaced by, "if you can shoot a tight group". By that i mean that the rifle, round and shooter can plug 5 shots into less than 1/2 a MOA. To do this your technique needs to be pretty consistent; the best rifle and ammo in the world wont do it on their own.

Not saying i don't make errors, just that on this occasion my POA, position, cheekweld, trigger and hand pressure were all pretty good. Much easier to do firing 5 rounds in a relaxed short period than it is waiting for targets to be pulled, shot marked, wind reassessed... etc.

As i said, i was not shooting for bull, i was purely shooting for group size, no matter where it landed on the target. This is much much easier than trying to land as many shots near the X as possible over a 12 shot string with in 15 minutes.

By the way. This load was tested at 100yd and put 3 consecutive shots into roughly 0.3", with one click scope adjustment after the first shot (the lower one) to put the group closer to bull/POA.

Zeroing the load. Shot 1, high, Shot 2&3, left and low, shot 4 one click too far right, shot 5 low and dead on, shot 6&7 dead on, or close enough.

IMG_0539.JPG (1.91 MiB) Viewed 5536 times

Here's a 5 shot group from 223rem at 100m.

RespFirearmsUse.jpg (46.88 KiB) Viewed 5536 times

Now, not saying i can shoot like this all the time or that i am any good a picking wind. Also not saying there was not shooter error showing up in the 500yd group, just that you can load some decent ammo with basic gear and that if you can shoot a tight group at 100yd/m, then it not really much harder to do the same at 500; IF the wind plays nicely with you.

[deadkitty]

Yep followed the instructions regarding set up, total bullet length is rarely the same.....
" by "differently", do you mean different overall lengths when measured to the point of the bullet?"...yes for the same bullet, in this case 50gr Zmax.
I might try the dummy round idea, Thanks again

How much difference are you seeing?

One bullet might be seated 12 thou deeper than the last...sometimes more, the next could be anywhere, I think the die is faulty/defective, but it came as part of a set. My local gun shop has lent me an RCBS seating die to try.... hopefully I'll get to do some reloading this weekend and see how it goes. Cheers

[Gwion]

Have you removed the seating stem, cleaned it... re set it, etc?

That does sound wrong, i have to say.

[deadkitty]

So, are you saying you get varying results from the same session or from session to session???

Definitely set yourself a dummy round at your desired length 'to the ogive'.

From bullet to bullet, one after another, it might work fine for 4 or 5 in a row then .....all during the same reloading session Extremely annoying when I'm trying to concentrate on producing identical rounds for load development, and it's tedious having to measure every round to check it's the right length. I'll try the RCBS die this weekend, hopefully it will solve the problem.

[bladeracer]

One bullet might be seated 12 thou deeper than the last...sometimes more, the next could be anywhere, I think the die is faulty/defective, but it came as part of a set. My local gun shop has lent me an RCBS seating die to try.... hopefully I'll get to do some reloading this weekend and see how it goes. Cheers

0.012" is way off, that's got to be more than just a technique problem.
Is the die screwed down tight in the press?

[deadkitty]

One bullet might be seated 12 thou deeper than the last...sometimes more, the next could be anywhere, I think the die is faulty/defective, but it came as part of a set. My local gun shop has lent me an RCBS seating die to try.... hopefully I'll get to do some reloading this weekend and see how it goes. Cheers

0.012" is way off, that's got to be more than just a technique problem.
Is the die screwed down tight in the press?

Yep, and I tighten it with a wrench, all set up according to the instructions that came with the die set.... I'm still guessing it's faulty
I mean , it's completely erratic.

[deadkitty]

Have you removed the seating stem, cleaned it... re set it, etc?

That does sound wrong, i have to say.

Yep tried that weeks ago, found some metal shavings (not brass) and odd bits (pin head sized) of metal while cleaning but the thread looks ok yet the problem persists. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try the RCBS and see how I go this weekend. Cheers and Thanks

[Gwion]

Pull it apart and inspect the seating stem. May be some sign of irregularity. Seems the only place that something could be that far off.....

[deadkitty]

Pull it apart and inspect the seating stem. May be some sign of irregularity. Seems the only place that something could be that far off.....

Ooopppss...... , I've found the problem..... and feeling very silly about it I will post it under the reloading mistakes thread I saw somewhere. Essentially my press is bolted to a baseboard so I can move it from the shed to the office in a few seconds. I share the office with my wife, who thoughtfully removed and replaced the press when she needed the desk...... result, clamped down too close to desk and the mechanics of the press was hitting the edge of desk at the bottom of eack stroke... . Desk now has some interesting gouges....but at least the problem has been solved. Thanks to you both for your input Cheers

[Gwion]

oops! Hope you get better results now!

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[deadkitty]

But wait...there's more..... just give me some time and I'll figure out more interesting ways to stuff up...... hey I've finally found something I'm good at! Cheers